To my poor mother's dismay, I started trying to parachute off fences, out of trees, and off buildings at a fairly young age. (For the record Mickey Mouse bedsheets don't work out too well, but they do make nice hammocks if tied correctly.) So I think I would have started a long time ago if I had seen a hang glider, or a hang gliding commercial, or a store, or something!
I vaguely remember seeing something in the sky once while I was in college, and looking back I think it may have been a hang glider. With nothing else to reference I never gave it much more than a glance though. _________________ ~ Ellipie ~
H2 CL FL FSL
Pulse 9
Money: I have a hard time convincing anyone to try hang gliding when they have to pony up 125- 150 dollars first. I think this is the great mistake of instructors.
Hang glider instructors should treat it like selling heroine. Give them the first taste for free, once they are addicted, then charge the bigger bucks.
Ease of access: How do you get kids/young adults to try it out? Go to where THEY are... take your scooter tow to the park, give free rides, then tell them where they can get more.... same heroine addict idea.
Money: I have a hard time convincing anyone to try hang gliding when they have to pony up 125- 150 dollars first. I think this is the great mistake of instructors.
I paid fifty dollars to get an "introductory" flight (about two hours) in an airplane back in 1984.
Ended up paying 175 a week for about a year.
YEA, get 'em hooked, then dig in. _________________ Mark Webber
225 Falcon (I can land this one)
163 Super Sport (I can't land this one)
KG6HOT
complacency about complacency is probably the enemy.
I slalom ski and wakeboard, and love both of them!!
Wakeboarding is more popular b/c it's so d@mn easy to get into. I learned behind a glorified john boat with a 33 horsepower motor on the Chattahoochee river. Try doing that on a slalom ski. My girlfriend got up on a wakeboard the first time she put one on, but I have friends that have been skiing for years and still can't get up on one ski, they have to get up on two and then kick one off. It's the same way with paragliding, it's just easier to get into.
A person has to reeeaalllly want to learn if they are going to be successful in HG or slalom. But, the rewards are awesome!!!
Wakeboarding is more popular b/c it's so d@mn easy to get into.
Ding ding we have a winner.
Time + money + lack of instructors + other = NOT EASY TO GET INTO _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Hang glider instructors should treat it like selling heroine. Give them the first taste for free, once they are addicted, then charge the bigger bucks.
.
How true
There is a fundamental problem. Hangglider instructors need to make a living, I have no doubt that if I had a beater old mark IV I could get a lot of people to try it for free, and they would make up their mind quick.
HOwever the local instructors would run me off, and the students would want to stick with the free guy rather then go pay the instructors
What the sport needs is more exposure, and lower costs. Now we could lower costs by not black listing gliders just because they are older and recommend people buy a used glider like a falcon 1, or a Mark IV, however thats going to put a severe ding in the companies making gliders. I was in the Wills shop tonight, and Mike told me that the Falcon 195 and Sport 2 155 are their best selling ships, pushing used gear could sink the company that produces the slick stuff _________________ TSA, DHS, NDAA and SOPA Seig Heil!
"What the sport needs is more exposure, and lower costs. Now we could lower costs by not black listing gliders just because they are older and recommend people buy a used glider like a falcon 1, or a Mark IV"
Who black list falcon 1's ?
We need more exposure thats a given.
The scooter tow tandems at a cheap price idea ,is probabaly the best one.
Tow just high enough to fly the pattern then belly land on wheels.
Videos playing on what its all about from begining to the extreme..
Sell Videos ,post cards ...
A 5 minute hop ,a thrill for some ( sell them a Tshirt )
Heroin for the ones that what more.
Limit them to 3 rides a year
Take VISA.
Another on e-bay _________________ Airborne Climax 14 (C1)
WW U2
H3
AT, FL,ST, RLF, TUR.
There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. … Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties. ~~~Douglas Adams
Ok, maybe blacklist was the wrong word, but there are a TON of great gliders that you just don't see anymore, where do they go?
I suspect a lot of people drop stop flying, and the glider disappears with them. For example. I sold my eagle a little over 6 years ago to a Bay Area Local. as far as I know, it hasn't been seen since. I thought I saw it one day and was excited, but it was the 145 not the 164. I mean this isn't a mark Iv, thats 20 years old, it is still a pretty modern wing
If people that got out of the sport just gave away their gliders instead of dooming them to a life in the garage, or sold them for cheap.
Where did all the eagles go, pulses, falcon 1's, mark IVs, Saturns etc
personally I think the deathknell is regulation, when friends could teach friends the sport flourished, there were a lot more accidents though _________________ TSA, DHS, NDAA and SOPA Seig Heil!
I really dont think safety has anything to do with it.
The only reason you get kids on motocross bikes, atv's and jetski's, which cost more, is the fact you can get FINANCED on those toys ....and... the fact that you can buy one next weekend, and actually use it to immediately have fun.
In terms of $$$ + TIME, a new seadoo is CHEAP compared to buying a falcon and getting an H2 rating.
I can go get a loan with nothing down for a new seadoo and be on the lake next weekend for almost $0. How can HG compete with that??????
Answer those questions and you are on your way to solving the problem.
- except I don't think $ is as much of a factor (for most)
also known as instant gratification. At the risk of sounding "old", I think the younger generation is spoiled with getting what they want NOW. They go out and buy a toy, and that day they are using it - even if not to the full potential, but at least they're using it NOW.
"I have to spend how many hours carrying the glider around on the TRAINING hill before I spend more than 30 seconds in a single flight??"
"Wait, you mean after I just spent $1500 to buy my first used glider/harness/etc, I may not get to use it for a week and a half because the wind is blowing the wrong direction????"
"You mean sometimes, even after you're experience, you may spend an hour to drive up the mountain, set it up, then only spend 10min in the air or not launch at all??"
"where the hell am I supposed to store that 20ft long thing?? Are you saying I have to sell my BMW and get a truck to carry this thing around?"
the list goes on.... so you really have to WANT it
locations that have some sort of towing operation or else a consistent coastal training site can address the first two (most of the time) but they still have to be patient as they gradually build the skills required to do whatever it was that sold them on it in the first place. I believe this is one of the main reasons we lose so many people to PG, even if they originally intended on HG.
I also agree that exposure is a big factor. In addition to the lack of coverage in media/movies, it's also because a lot of flying sites are located where there are almost no people to see it. And it seems the places where there are exceptions to that rule (Torrey, Funston right in the city, and aerotow parks near town) where people can see the entire operation from start to finish, there IS more growth - except Torrey where it's almost exclusively PG growth, but that's another story
Agree with the younger "spoiled" generation comment, but thats the market place you have to deal with these days. We can say, oh well.. their spoiled, and leave it that. Not saying thats what you are implying joe
But clearly, we need to address this attitude with good strategies to get them into the sport even if they have that crappy attitude
If people continue to ignore this fact, then they will continue to fail to get new students.
The moving platform simulator shown many times on this site is a good example of a system that is available nearly every day and gets someone instant fun the first day they show up. Thats the kind of stuff we need to focus on to get people hooked IMO _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
I don't know if this has been mentioned but I have heard several people say it wasn't the tandem flight that got me hooked it was that first bunny hop off a training hill in the wing my myself that got me hooked.
I must say as well I still have a vivid memory of my first flight off a sand hill.
Get them into a wing and they will find the money and time. _________________ Sonic 165
Lightsport 3
Malibu 188
My youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/relate2#p/u
I don't know if this has been mentioned but I have heard several people say it wasn't the tandem flight that got me hooked it was that first bunny hop off a training hill in the wing my myself that got me hooked.
I must say as well I still have a vivid memory of my first flight off a sand hill.
Get them into a wing and they will find the money and time.
Thats what the aerotow parks have noticed. People who hill train seem to get hooked at a higher rate than people who start via aero-tow, go figure.
I just hope its not a false correlation that throws off the scent trail. _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Look I think aero training is certainly a quicker way of moving though your training unless you are lucky enough to have multiple sites that take all wind directions in your area.
Maybe if the aero parks have their customers first connection with the glider being a run off a bunny hill. For me it did not have to be a high flight it was just the rush of getting my feet off the ground with me in control that got me hooked with the possibilities of free flight.
So if the aero parks could flip their training around so they teach ground handling and landings first then air control second, they might retain more students. _________________ Sonic 165
Lightsport 3
Malibu 188
My youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/relate2#p/u
lz every were for me its just what i like and when im rely good at it ill go to comps and blow people out of the water low and fast
wagner, I will paypal you $5 tonight if you promise to use some punctuation to now on!
I'm not asking for perfect grammar or spelling, I know mine is not very good. But please for the love of free flight, at least use a PERIOD to indicate the end of one thought and the beginning of another.
I know, I know. Its the content that matters. But think of some basic punctuation as a courtesy to your readers. See how much easier to read this is with a few commas and periods:
Wagner24314 wrote:
lz every were for me, its just what i like. and when im rely good at it ill go to comps and blow people out of the water, low and fast.
I'm with Dave on this. Consider the following sentence:
"I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse."
If you remove the punctuation and capitalization, the meaning changes a bit, doesn't it?
Anyway, back on the topic: I have the good fortune to live within driving distance of Lookout Mountain Flight Park, so I've seen in action a lot of the things that people are suggesting. As far as the idea of giving people a taste and they'll be hooked, that's not the case for most. I don't know how many tandems Lookout does in a year, but it's got to be well over a thousand. A lot of them are discovery flights, where the student never goes beyond the first flight. Lookout does train lots of pilots to the H2 level, but not nearly as many as take discovery flights.
I don't think the convenience factor has much to do with it either. If you pull out any issue of the USHPA magazine, look at the new H1s and H2s given out. There are three instructors at Lookout that sign off almost all the H1s and H2s there: Dan Zink, Gordon Cayce, and Diana Koether. Look how many students they sign off, and compare that to the number signed off at all of the Florida parks combined. It's way more. Now I know that Lookout is to a certain extent a national training destination, but most of the pilots they train live in Georgia, Tennessee, and Alabama. It's not as convenient to fly from a mountain site as a tow park, as you need a car rack. At Wallaby, you can rent storage space, get a tow up, fly back down, no car rack needed. I understand that Florida Ridge makes it even easier, as they have rental gliders that remain set up, Yet, neither of those places turns out all that many pilots.
I've heard some people say that hang gliding is hard to learn. I don't at all agree. I spent about 35 hours total before I could solo, most of which was spent recovering from the previous flight and getting back up the hill, and I can honestly say I enjoyed every minute of it. Is hang gliding harder to learn than say, riding a waverunner? Sure. How about golf, tennis, or the piano? Nope, not even close. All of those will take hundreds of hours to learn to do well.
Like noman said a long time ago, this sport's not for everyone. It takes patience and discipline. It will involve waiting, getting blown out, and getting flushed. (Same's true of paragliding, maybe moreso because of the limitations of their canopies.) But, there are people who are willing to put in the effort to get the reward. It might just be that those people are in the 35 to 50 age range more often than being in the 20 to 35 group. Who are they? The biggest candidate group, in my estimation, are general aviation pilots. I can't recall the number of former or current genav pilots I met on the training hills. Who else might be a candidate? Older mountain bikers whose bodies are telling them that the beating they are taking isn't all that much fun any more. Windsurfers/sailors/whitewater canoeists and kayakers/motorcyclists, and maybe even a few former race car drivers. How do you get the word out? Can we get invited to an airshow for a demonstration? If you can show GA pilots that this is much more than running down a sand dune, that a glider is a real aircraft, and that they can learn to fly and buy all new equipment for less than their private ticket cost them to get, I think you might get a few takers. Plus, there's the social aspect, which is missing from a lot of these activities.
Hang gliding has a lot to offer, but it's not for most. We have to get the word out to those who are most likely to be interested.
I play several musical instruments including the piano. I learned them all much quicker than I learned to hang glide. I think some people have that "natural" flying ability just like some people have a more natural musical gift. It was hard for me and for quite a few of the smaller people. I don't really think it was so much that we couldn't "learn" it as in "it takes a brain surgeon" to do this stuff but more of a "it's hard" as in stamina,etc. The weight of the equipment definitely takes some getting used to. It used to make me so mad when someone would pick up the glider I was on and move it or something and then tell me how light it is. Yeah, for a 200 pound man. And here I go with it flopping all over the field...
Capture MOM and then you've got the young. _________________
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- except I don't think $ is as much of a factor (for most)
