Not good -sad news - Hang Gliding Org - Worlds largest Hang Gliding community, discover Hang Gliding

Search

  • Sorry...You must register to activate searching









Post new topic   Reply to topic    Hang Gliding Org Forum Index -> Hang gliding general->Not good -sad news
BURY this topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Redbeard
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1291
Location: Santa Shoes, California

PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #21   
sad and tragic news indeed.
_________________
"Never Land On Your Face"

H3
FL~FSL~CL~AWCL~AT
The Hangar--> Moyes Litesport 4~Vision Mark IV 17~UP Gemini

check out my pics... http://flickr.com/photos/26902164@N08/
Send private message Blog  Rate this post
Windlord
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 4704
Location: Montana

PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #22   
Very, very sad indeed. Crying or Very sad
Fly high my brother. We'll meet again at the top of the stack.
My prayers to his family. Thank you for sharing him with us!

_________________
H-4 (1976) UP Saturn 147 & UP Axis 13
The Cloudbase Foundation
Learn to fly hang gliders (click here}
Torrey Hawks #208
Send private message  Rate this post
John C
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 420
Location: Augusta, GA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #23   
To this pilot's family: I am sorry for your loss. Sad
Send private message  Rate this post
hgnv
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 388
Location: Las Vegas, NV

PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #24   
I can only echo everyone sense of loss, especially for his family.... Crying or Very sad

It is such a pill to swallow when one of us doesn't make it home safely...

_________________
"Nobody Plans to Fail.... Many just Fail to Plan"

Airborne Sting II xc
H-3 FL, FSL, CL, AT
Send private message  Rate this post
Holger
2 thumbs up
2 thumbs up


Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 851
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #25   
Arrrg. My thoughts are with Mark's family. And with you that were at the scene. May the joyful memories of Mark outshine those of this day.

Holger
Send private message  Rating: 3 thumbs up
Wingspan34
2 thumbs up
2 thumbs up


Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #26   
I'll start off saying that it's unfortunate to hear of Mark Mariano's fatal accident. I didn't know him, so the news may not have as much emotional strength as it would if I did. But I have been on the other side of the situation. There are people who knew him well and cared about him, and I wish them the best. I hope his loved ones can remember all the good times they had with Mark and hopefully that will help minimize the pain.

I, like everyone posting here, feel saddened by one more fatal accident.

But now I must ask the big question. This person lost their life, but has that loss had any value, or is it meaningless? Can Mark's sacrifice mean something to those left behind? Can this incident teach us something which will allow those of us who are still flying to do so more safely? There is always something to learn in these situations.

This is all I've gleaned so far:

Mark once flew hang gliders more often.

He was 45 years old and a Senior Financial Analyst.

He had a lay-off, of some length, from flying.

He recently got back into the sport.

Shortly after launching, on his last flight, ". . . he was really struggling for some time to gain control and get prone." And . . . "I was watching as he initially disappeared behind the ridge . . ."

* * * * * * *

It sounds like at least one (or more?) members of Hanggliding.org were actually at the scene, or at least at the site, on Saturday. By no means do I want to be, or sound, pushy, . . . but can we get a better description of the conditions, of what Mark's control problems involved? Was Mark an old pilot or a bold pilot, i.e., was he cautious and responsible or, . . .?

About his equipment, . . . was it all new, less familiar stuff, or was he flying with older, more familiar equipment?

It sounds like he got above launch then flew over the back. Is this true? How high was he? Did lee side rotor seem to be involved?

It sounds to me like many of these questions could be answered, but it's not happening. If it's a matter of getting over the shock, I can understand. But, for those left behind, to know and understand what happened allows us to gain from such a tragedy. It allows us to be a bit safer ourselves and perhaps not repeat Mark's possible mistakes.

Let's not allow his death to simply fade, (meaninglessly?) away. Let's use the lessons it may teach us to potentially minimize other similar future incidents. I can't think of an aviator who wouldn't want it that way.

_________________
WW 141 Fusion SP
Master rated, First flight - May 1975
FL, PL, PA, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TURB, X-C
Send private message Blog  Rating: 3 thumbs up
hgflyer
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 3425

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #27   
My best thoughts and concerns go out to all of Marks family and friends.

I offer my support to all of the pilots who were on the scene. This is never an easy event for any of us to deal with. There is always something to be learned from every incident big or small. I'm sure all of us as pilots. Have a sense deep down. If I or anyone should make mistakes. I would like my fellow pilots and friends to learn from it.

For all of the pilots who were there. I personally know the feeling of witnessing a fatality. This is a time to evaluate what and where we can improve in our sport.

My heart goes out to all of the people touched by this event.

_________________
The sky is no longer the limit! Only our imaginations will be our limit!
Send private message Blog  Rate this post
bagbgone
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 328
Location: Santa Cruz - CA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #28   
I posted the short description on WOR. It was an awful tragedy and I also send out my condolences to friends and family.

I had not met Mark prior to briefly speaking to him as he approached launch. He seemed in good spirits and not visibly nervous. He was flying an Eagle or similar glider in good condition with a cocoon harness. Conditions were light for McClure, but active. He waited through a couple of cycles to launch. His launch was pretty rusty, pushing out and jumping in. He made a few passes in front of launch controlling from high up on the downtubes (maybe 18" from the apex). He made numerous attempts to get prone before drifting over and circling in lift to our left. He then made another pass in front of launch (close) and managed to get prone. At numerous points during the flight he seemed disengaged from flying and more concentrated on getting prone. I headed down the ridge to get something from my truck. He passed around the corner to where he likely turned toward the hill beyond a shallow ridge. Both downtubes were broken and his helmet had been impacted and there were visible marks on a large rock outcropping. The wing was intact. I recall my first flights in that area following a thermal and really having to pull in to gather speed for the downwind side (hill side) of the turn. If he had similar experience and pushed out to plow through the turn instead it would have probably coincided with the type of scene we witnessed. I really never felt that I saw him in complete comfortable control of the glider, though it seemed that he was intentionally working lift close (very close) to the hill throughout his flight. I don't think he was more than a couple hundred feet over launch throughout the flight.

Aside from the tragedy that followed that's all I recall.
Ryan
Send private message  Rate this post
Wingspan34
2 thumbs up
2 thumbs up


Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #29   
Thanks Ryan,

That's a very good account of things. So, does that mean he didn't go over the back of the ridge? Does it seem like he was scratching too close to the terrain and got turned into the ridge?

I know it may sound cold, but if someone could do a simple diagram using a screen capture from Google Earth it would help those of us quite a bit, who don't know the site. There may be similar terrain issues at our own sites.

Also, does anyone have a sense of how far up the experience scale Mark was before his lay-off? How long had he been flying before the lay-off and how long was the lay-off? How long had he been back? Could this incident have involved a bit of over confidence on Mark's part? What was his current and pre lay-off rating?

I'm sorry if my questions sound impersonal or insensitive. But the larger world of aviation takes life ending/threatening accidents quite seriously. I think that we, as hang glider pilots, should be just as serious minded about our accidents.

_________________
WW 141 Fusion SP
Master rated, First flight - May 1975
FL, PL, PA, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TURB, X-C
Send private message Blog  Rate this post
Sky_Walker
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 763
Location: Trenton, Ga

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #30   
Quote:
I'm sorry if my questions sound impersonal or insensitive. But the larger world of aviation takes life ending/threatening accidents quite seriously. I think that we, as hang glider pilots, should be just as serious minded about our accidents.


Wingspan, I for one appreciate your questions, it is a terrible tragedy that I'd like to see us all do as much as possible to prevent a repeat occurence. As a low time pilot (26 solo flights), i need to learn as much as possible from every accident that I can.

My condolence to his family and the larger Hanggliding family at McClure.

Sad

_________________
Jaime Perry
H3 FL CL AWCL FSL
WW Sport 2 155
Send private message  Rate this post
Ted
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #31   
All,
I found this site via google. I am not a hang glider, but was looking to find out some information regarding the crash on Saturday. I was alerted to Mark's accident via someone calling our office Monday morning. I did not speak to this person but wish to express my gratitude for calling.

I am deeply saddened at the loss of a longtime friend and colleage. I have read all of the posts and am happy to hear that Mark was not alone and that he was excited to be on this adventure. What I have come to learn is that few if any people here really knew him. I did.

I would like to share a few things about Mark, that he might not be just a statistic for your sport. His life was filled with tradegy, abandoned by his family and recently lost his wife to cancer. In all of my life I have never met anyone who responded to the dark events that life frequently brings in such a way. You would never know the hurt that he had experienced as he was always more concerned with how others were doing. He loved God and he loved people, exactly as the Bible instructs but for whom so few people can actually figure out. He got it.

He was kind and sensitive...somewhat shy...extremely intelligent...with a flair for excitement. Just last month he completed a 7500 mile pilgrimage to the East Coast on a motorcycle. Took him 4 weeks.

Though my friend had no family, he was loved by many and will be greatly missed.....[sobbing]

Your friend
Ted
Send private message  Rating: 3 thumbs up
bagbgone
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 328
Location: Santa Cruz - CA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #32   
Ted,
Truly, deeply sorry... I was at his side immediately following the accident and I can assure you he was held, and surrounded by words of comfort and support to the end.
Ryan
Send private message  Rate this post
Ted
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #33   
Thanks Ryan....that is really encouraging.

As an aside, my form of adventure is race car driving. I understand Mark's quest for adventure and the consequences that befall. When an accident occurs in racing an investigation is conducted, sometimes informally, sometimes formally, as to the cause of the incident from the viewpoint of further prevention...process or equipment improvement....education.

I hope that the same diligence will be given this tragedy, that others may be spared the same fate.

Ted
Send private message  Rate this post
noman
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #34   
he seemed like a good dude, i wish i could have gotten to know him.Im a local at mcclure and was hoping mark was going to be 1 of the new guys in the fold.I was not in the area when he crashed.I will say this,if you get to close to this mountain,it can bite you.Dam i wish i could take this and make it not so.Ted,he was a very happy man on launch and on the ride up.
 Rate this post
Wingspan34
2 thumbs up
2 thumbs up


Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #35   
Ted,

You bring a human face to someone most of us did not know. Thank you. And thanks for understanding any effort made to figure out how things went wrong. Hopefully, the process will help other hang glider pilots be a little bit safer and to allow the sport itself to grow a bit more mature. That can't be anything but a good good thing. Too bad it usually requires such tragedies to move things in that direction. Sad

_________________
WW 141 Fusion SP
Master rated, First flight - May 1975
FL, PL, PA, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TURB, X-C
Send private message Blog  Rate this post
SpyFly



Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 2
Location: Hayward, CA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #36   
Ted,

I was the one who contacted your office on Monday. I was relieved after multiple attempts to find someone at his workplace that knew him. I, along with Ryan, were the first to locate him and I remained with Mark the entire time. Having heard that Mark wasn't close to his family in Pennsylvania I am concerned that his loved ones in this area may still not know of his death. Mark mentioned having a girlfriend. Do you know who she may be and whether she has been contacted? Any information would be appreciated. I spoke with Mark's manager, Marina at Kaiser today and she indicated that no one there knew who Mark's girlfriend was, but that they thought she lived in San Francisco. Marina also said she would let me know of any funeral arrangements. When I get that information, I'll post it here.

I'm so sorry for your loss. My thoughts are with you.

Brian
Send private message  Rate this post
HangDiver
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 2074
Location: Salida, Villa Grove, Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #37   
Hang gliding has an element of risk. It's natural for us to want to know how this tragic accident happen.

Give those who were at the accident site and are most knowledgable of what happened some time to come to terms with what they witnessed. The information we seek will come.
Send private message  Rate this post
SpyFly



Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 2
Location: Hayward, CA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #38   
Here is a brief summary of what I saw.

While I did see Mark thermal higher than launch a few times, at no time did I see him fly directly above or behind launch. Moments before I lost sight of him, he was in a right hand turn away from the hill, then Mark's right wing lifted (perhaps by a thermal) turning him left toward the hillside when he disappeared out of sight behind the mountain. It's difficult to know for sure whether the turn was made intentionally or otherwise. He came to rest on a steep south facing slop out of the view of the launch area. We located him approximately 100 ft. below the top of the mountain. This hillside looks out over the McClure reservoir boat launch below.

Here are a few other details I have heard from other people there that day. Some may be inaccurate but I believe this is correct.

Mark was flying on the same model glider, the same size, and with the same type harness he had flown on in the past. He held a Hang 3 rating with “more than 100 hours” of flight time when he last flew. He had never flown this site before.

Brian
Send private message  Rate this post
robfrias
2 thumbs up
2 thumbs up


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 244
Location: Colorado (US)

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #39   
It's just very sad and maddening that this sport on occasion, can be so unforgiving. Somehow this pilot slipped through our checks and balances.

Are we engaging that new/unfamiliar pilot on the hill ? Are we asking him if he needs a hang check? Did we talk to him about todays flying conditions? Did we inspect his wing, check his credentials, and finally, try to dissuade him from flying if we didn't think he's qualified? On occasions, I've ignored these duties, mostly because I wanted to get in the air. Other times I've almost gotten into fist fights with pilots trying to launch off our hill that I didn't know.

It's us, the active local pilot that has this responsibility, to protect him and our flying site, because in the end, we will bare the brunt of complacency.
Send private message  Rate this post
hgflyer
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 3425

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #40   
Ted, Ryan, spyfly,

Thank you for sharing with all of us here on the org. And welcome.

_________________
The sky is no longer the limit! Only our imaginations will be our limit!
Send private message Blog  Rate this post
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Hang Gliding Org Forum Index -> Hang gliding general
 
All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4


 
Jump to:  


(c) HangGliding.org All rights reserved. Based on PhpBB