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TomGalvin
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Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 3547
Location: ............... Pagosa Springs, Colorado
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 Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: |
 #41 |
And you know my objection to these Torrey threads has always been the mudslinging and mob rule they incite. I don't think you could find a single proprietor of a free flight school who has not pissed off some faction or another. An internet forum thread about disagreements only serves to divide communities. I suspect that David Jebb is not a monster. Just human.
_________________
Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization.
Charles Lindbergh |
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knumbknuts
3 thumbs up
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 5004
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:17 am Post subject: |
#42 |
| BubbleBoy wrote: |
| Jason wrote: |
no, i just don't understand how that in anyway relates to this thread
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Dennis is right Jason, -- in spite of his calls for civility, Tom was throwing out a drive-by swipe based on current election lingo. Civility is always in the eye of the beholder.
JB |
Civility is in the eye of the beholder and the ignore button is at the bottom of the screen. It comes in very handy in two themes of thread: Torrey and Panty threads. There are some usual suspects you can almost count on for a personal attack. |
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BubbleBoy
1 thumbs up
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 3002
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:19 am Post subject: |
#43 |
Tom:
>I don't think you could find a single proprietor of a free
>flight school who has not pissed off some faction or
>another.
The bullies antics should not be publicized ... Tom's reason #965: "It happens all the time"
JB |
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TomGalvin
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 3547
Location: ............... Pagosa Springs, Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: |
#44 |
| BubbleBoy wrote: |
| in spite of his calls for civility, Tom was throwing out a drive-by swipe based on current election lingo. Civility is always in the eye of the beholder. |
My mistake, I should have made my point without reference to national politics.
_________________
Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization.
Charles Lindbergh |
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noman
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: |
#45 |
Maybe i could come down there with a crew and make life interesting,I am unafraid of these types of people and i love to irritate them.I wish this place was closer,i would start a kite flying club and own the beach.Then would start a rap contest every day.I would put as many pedestrians in his way as possible.One thing u can count on with a cop,is they try to control the situation,i say make it uncontrollable.If all of u guys say hes a tyrant,then hes a tyrant.Why cant we just fly and be merry.  |
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Erik Boehm
2 thumbs up
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 2430
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Message from David Jebb, Region 3 Director |
#46 |
| gtpowell wrote: |
| bradgeary wrote: |
DAVID JEBB WROTE:
"Dear Region Three Pilots:
Next Bob K. started his Torrey Pines Hawk's club based on the false fact
that Torrey and I are against hangliding. Nothing could be further than the
truth. We have the most HG tie downs of any site in California, the most
glider storage facilities of any site in California, and a staff of
Hanglider instructors, including two who have flown HG for over thirty-two
years.
David Jebb
Flight Director
Torrey Pines Gliderport" |
Note this from the flytorrey website.
H4 Sign-off and Training
Hang glider certifications require a longer time commitment than the paraglider equivalents. Torrey Pines Gliderport no longer offers basic or beginner hang glider training. However the Gliderport continues to offer advanced hang glider training. The cost is $195.00 per day and must be scheduled prior to your visit.
Mr. David Jebb, if you are not against hangliding and are indeed in full support of HG, why have you done away with all HG lessons outside of H4 training? Most pilots don't require training to obtain an H4 rating, they require flight numbers and a broad expanse of flying experiences, neither of which you can supply in a single day’s training at one location. |
H4 training at Torrey is a joke - the most he could offer is paying an observer to sit and watch you to sign off a task, or do H4 spots.
This should cost nothing, or a 6 pack/burger/etc at most. $200 for what?
I doubt anyone actually pays for those "lessons"
Jebb just wants to claim that he still offers HG instruction, without actually offering any hanggliding instruction.
| Quote: |
| I suspect that David Jebb is not a monster. Just human. |
Correct, he's not a monster, he's not "being mean" just to "be mean".
Nobody is advocating hurting the guy, just recognizing his goals are not compatible with the HG communities goals, and it would be in the HG communities best interest to vote him out.
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H4, Litespeed 4 w/ Mylar sail.
Previous: Airwave K2, Wills Wing Eagle 145
Last edited by Erik Boehm on Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TomGalvin
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 3547
Location: ............... Pagosa Springs, Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: |
#47 |
| BubbleBoy wrote: |
Tom:
>I don't think you could find a single proprietor of a free
>flight school who has not pissed off some faction or
>another.
The bullies antics should not be publicized ... Tom's reason #965: "It happens all the time"
JB |
Do it rationally with facts, or don't do it at all. If you want support from pilots outside of California, maybe instead of attacking them when they ask for civility and facts, you could just provide facts and civility. Hype does not help you.
There was a public flogging of the Cloud Street Gang last year about the fly-in at Hat Creek Rim that did no one any good. I'm just tired of the tendency for free flight community to whip itself into a frenzy and rip itself apart.
_________________
Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization.
Charles Lindbergh |
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BubbleBoy
1 thumbs up
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 3002
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:37 am Post subject: |
#48 |
noman:
>Maybe i could come down there with a crew and
>make life interesting,I am unafraid of these types
>of people and i love to irritate them
Dude -- we have finally found a patch of common ground. I salute you and we'll drive down together.
JB |
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BubbleBoy
1 thumbs up
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 3002
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:43 am Post subject: |
#49 |
Tom:
>I'm just tired of the tendency for free flight community
>to whip itself into a frenzy and rip itself apart.
Occasionally it takes a frenzy to motive a good old Boston Tea Party.
I truly do understand your position, and up to a point agree with it -- but you have to understand that after year in year out the SOS, a frenzy starts looking pretty attractive and more effective.
People will always pick from the options they have remaining.
JB |
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HGXC
1 thumbs up
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 2921
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:43 am Post subject: |
#50 |
OK Tom,
With regard to your concern about threads and Jebb being human. I never doubted that the man was human and he is entitled to his point of view. But he has a greater responsibility and that is running one of the premiere (even though i hate non xc sites  ), and it seems quite obvious that he is very biased to PGing only.
If this was reversed there would be USHPA hell to pay, Now we don't use this site Tom, its not Ascutney nor Ellenville. But You are very cognizant of troubles at Eville over the years and how unfairness never goes away. Up here we have Rutland and its issues never go away.
You have to deal with them or should i say the users of Torrey need to deal with them. You and i only can relate as we remember struggles in our own flying regions. I understand you train pilots and thats great. why should you have additional issues to deal with outside of the challenges of just teaching and advocating? You shouldn't and the HGing pilots should be welcomed, allow to fly with equal ratings and PGers should be warned not to get in HGers way as often as the reverse is done.
Dennis
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Organ Donation Saves Lives
Glider = ATOS B-V, Rating = H5 |
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BubbleBoy
1 thumbs up
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 3002
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: |
#51 |
XC:
>If this was reversed there would be USHPA hell to pay
Oh how I wish this were true -- I can assure you that if I flew paragliders, there would be at least one paraglider who flew the ridge at Funston until the entity who controls the airspace (FAA) sorted it out.
Unfair is just that, and the paragliders have no patent on the concept. Funston is worse than Torrey in reverse.
JB |
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day dreamer
2 thumbs up
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 3748
Location: McClure Pilot
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: |
#52 |
..
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Always a student.
"The mountain doesn't care what that card in your wallet says." - Bruce Stobbe
Last edited by day dreamer on Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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remmoore
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1311
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: |
#53 |
"Funston is worse than Torrey in reverse."
Not to completely redirect the subject BB, but there is airspace in the Funston area that HG's and PG's share. I'm assuming that you aren't from the Bay Area, or you would know about the Dumps paragliding launch, located at the opposite end of the cliffs from Funston. I'm not a PG pilot, but it looks to me like they have a much better launching/soaring/landing setup for PG than Funston provides. Plus, it's a big broad ridge site, unlike the immediate Funston area. Most Funston HG's like to share the air with the PG's at the Dumps, because the lift band is so much bigger.
Perhaps the (unrealistic) Torrey equivalent would be if the State bought one of the mansions farther down the cliffline and turned it into a HG flightpark.
RM |
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Erik Boehm
2 thumbs up
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 2430
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:24 am Post subject: |
#54 |
| BubbleBoy wrote: |
| Funston is worse than Torrey in reverse. |
Maybe, thats a matter of opinion.
Funston does not offer instruction, so it is not actively turning out HG pilots and no PG pilots in the way Torrey is actively turning out PG pilots but no HG pilots.
Funston is not run for a Profit, Torrey is.
You don't need to pay to fly Funston(although a once a year donation is encouraged, of any amount), you do have to pay to fly Torrey
Just down the ridge at Funston is what is basically a PG only takeoff and LZ.
PGs and HGs fly the same ridge - the ridge is just "segregated"
"The Dumps" takeoff is better suited to PG takeoffs than the Funston takeoff, as is the LZ, due to windshear, gradient, etc- at least on stronger days.
In fact, P2's can fly the funston ridge, whereas the Funston takeoff and LZ is H3.
There is some unfairness, but not so much we hear PGers really making a big deal, they can fly the ridge without being hassled, with no more restrictions than the HGers.
The same cannot be said of Torrey.
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H4, Litespeed 4 w/ Mylar sail.
Previous: Airwave K2, Wills Wing Eagle 145 |
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noman
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: |
#55 |
| BubbleBoy wrote: |
noman:
>Maybe i could come down there with a crew and
>make life interesting,I am unafraid of these types
>of people and i love to irritate them
Dude -- we have finally found a patch of common ground. I salute you and we'll drive down together.
JB |
LOL,finally.Bubbs i would be proud to show up there with you. |
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ddreg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Pnt.ot.Mtn, bunny hill
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:08 am Post subject: |
#56 |
I thought someone mention that the site was not to be run for profit as stated in the city lease. If rules are being broken, are they being brought up with the city? Why not get the city to do an investigation on the sites activities and perhaps they can get Jebb removed. Whats the point of keeping this in house if USHPA doesn't care whats going on there? And if your concern is losing the site by making a fuss over it with the city, it seems like a lot of people have already just given up on it.
How is being a regional director going to help. USHPA already stated they can't do anthing about it. And Jebb will still be running Torry. |
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BubbleBoy
1 thumbs up
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 3002
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:14 am Post subject: |
#57 |
remoore:
>I'm assuming that you aren't from the Bay Area,
Wrong assumption. Bay area since '81 and I've been flying Funston for more than 20 years. I've heard all the HG Funston excuses and I'll stick by my long earned conclusion.
I'll start another thread and anyone who wishes can discuss Funston there.
JB |
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BubbleBoy
1 thumbs up
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 3002
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: |
#58 |
| Erik Boehm wrote: |
| BubbleBoy wrote: |
| Funston is worse than Torrey in reverse. |
Maybe, thats a matter of opinion.
Funston does not offer instruction, so it is not actively turning out HG pilots and no PG pilots in the way Torrey is actively turning out PG pilots but no HG pilots.
Funston is not run for a Profit, Torrey is.
You don't need to pay to fly Funston(although a once a year donation is encouraged, of any amount), you do have to pay to fly Torrey
Just down the ridge at Funston is what is basically a PG only takeoff and LZ.
PGs and HGs fly the same ridge - the ridge is just "segregated"
"The Dumps" takeoff is better suited to PG takeoffs than the Funston takeoff, as is the LZ, due to windshear, gradient, etc- at least on stronger days.
In fact, P2's can fly the funston ridge, whereas the Funston takeoff and LZ is H3.
There is some unfairness, but not so much we hear PGers really making a big deal, they can fly the ridge without being hassled, with no more restrictions than the HGers.
The same cannot be said of Torrey. |
If one is interested in fairness and equality, much of what is written above is simply irrelevent. Some of it is just factually wrong.
Jason, I'll respond point by point in the Funston thread I'm starting.
JB |
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Jason
3 thumbs up
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 7533
Location: Stapleton, Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:23 am Post subject: |
#59 |
| BubbleBoy wrote: |
| Erik Boehm wrote: |
| BubbleBoy wrote: |
| Funston is worse than Torrey in reverse. |
Maybe, thats a matter of opinion.
Funston does not offer instruction, so it is not actively turning out HG pilots and no PG pilots in the way Torrey is actively turning out PG pilots but no HG pilots.
Funston is not run for a Profit, Torrey is.
You don't need to pay to fly Funston(although a once a year donation is encouraged, of any amount), you do have to pay to fly Torrey
Just down the ridge at Funston is what is basically a PG only takeoff and LZ.
PGs and HGs fly the same ridge - the ridge is just "segregated"
"The Dumps" takeoff is better suited to PG takeoffs than the Funston takeoff, as is the LZ, due to windshear, gradient, etc- at least on stronger days.
In fact, P2's can fly the funston ridge, whereas the Funston takeoff and LZ is H3.
There is some unfairness, but not so much we hear PGers really making a big deal, they can fly the ridge without being hassled, with no more restrictions than the HGers.
The same cannot be said of Torrey. |
If one is interested in fairness and equality, much of what is written above is simply irrelevent. Some of it is just factually wrong.
Jason, I'll respond point by point in the Funston thread I'm starting.
JB |
wait, how did i get dragged into this?
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TSA, DHS, NDAA and SOPA Seig Heil! |
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tokyoDirk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 965
Location: bay area, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: |
#60 |
| BubbleBoy wrote: |
Funston is worse than Torrey in reverse.
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In some ways maybe, but in reality the paragliders have a much better flying site with a multitude of launch and landing spots just a half mile to the south. If there was a better LZ down there (for HG) you can bet more people would be hanggliding down there than at funston.
I'm not saying its fair, but I'm just saying they don't care as much because they have good alternatives
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-Dirk
H4,BI - WW U2 145 |
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