[rafaelcjr]

John Arthur Dramesi
http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/d/d059.htm

Herb Hope
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/histories/cv59-forrestal/forrestal-fire.html

the coward
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print

[knumbknuts]

I'd take one mccain over about 100 of you. Keep politics off this board... You owe me 20 seconds of my life that it took to read this, bury it, and hit the ignore button.

[rafaelcjr]

[Davedebogusone]

[Wingspan34]

Being the "Way off topic" forum, I see it as home for just about anything. If you come here, expect to find stuff utterly unrelated to hang gliding and perhaps even sensitive in some way (politics or religion?).

I poked my head in here and saw this thread. I skipped over the heroes, wanting to know who the coward was. While a very long article, I read about 1/3 of it and I was amazed at what it revealed about the life of John McCain.

Before reading a any part of this article, I had wondered about McCain's "hero" status.

Sure a POW can be a hero, but hell, isn't the greater hero the combatant who doesn't get caught? Isn't it the guy who saves his fellow soldiers and/or shows conspicuous bravery under fire? Isn't it the guy who helps turn a battle around, saving countless lives?

Between what I read in the article and have heard from other reliable sources, what did McCain do to qualify as a hero?

- He was a lousy pilot, who before Vietnam, crashed more than one plane.

- He gets to Vietnam, gets shot down, and is taken prisoner.

- He's (supposedly?) the father of an illegitimate S Vietnamese child so gets easier treatment.

- But still he manages to sign some "confession" papers which the N Vietnamese can use against the US.


Yes, I'm sure he suffered, but the simple act of suffering doesn't necessarily make you a hero. Nor does it make you qualified to be president of the United States.

And while some might call it utterly meaningless, I saw McCain on Letterman last night. He came off as an Ass I-I ole.

And he harped on Obama's connection to that one time (1960s) bomber - which Obama clearly explained in the debates on Wednesday as a very superficial (more or less meaningless) association. Yet McCain ignored the information Obama "revealed" and went on with the distorted lies which he figures will hurt Obama's chances, and therefore help his. Dave even called McCain on this (I like Dave) and McCain blathered on about how Obama didn't refute or condemn (or some similar word) this (terrorist) person he actually hardly knows.

John McCain's past shows him to be a looser and current polls show he is a slowly sinking ship.

The last time he tried for the presidency, I kind of liked John McCain. But I didn't really know anything about him. He didn't get the Republican nomination then either, so I didn't need to look into who he "really" is.

I've found out much more this time, and I'm not impressed with what I read. And what I read fits into my first hand impressions of the guy - and with multiple separate sources of corroborating info. I wouldn't want him as my president.

[DocSoc]

[Wingspan34]

Thanks Doc!

Less than a week till the election. It'll be interesting to see which way things go.

[HGXC]

[knumbknuts]

[rafaelcjr]

[HGXC]

[quote="rafaelcjr"]

[HGXC]

[Davedebogusone]

Also he has made a promise through his "cap and trade emissions policy " to raise the cost of energy to Americans.

At this point in time , bad idea Barry.

Ain't no way a "SOCIALIST " will be good for this country.

Kind of curious why he sealed his records though?

Dave

[skypilot155]

As a Lifelong Republican (don't hate me for it) I can't believe the best my party could come up with was McCain. This election we have our choice between the liberial Republican or the way left liberial Democrat .

The best reason I can come up with to vote for McCain is Obama. If McCain had the crap following Him Obama does we'd never hear the end of it. So much for fair and equal treatment of canidates.

As somebody who has worked hard for what I have, Served USAF 1974/1978 plus USAFR 1988/1990 I really don't like the idea of giving what I've worked for to a bunch of lazy shiftless people who can't get off their dead butts.

If Obamas plan to tax the big corporations goes through, who in the heck do you think is going to pay for it, the corporations, not hardly. Come on kids get a clue.

[FormerFF]

It's totally unfair to label Senator McCain as a coward. He volunteered for air combat, and that takes a lot of courage. While he may not be the best choice for president, particularly considering his involvement with Charles Keating, he is not a coward.

[Davedebogusone]

http://www.answers.com/topic/socialism

Yep still Socialist
Perhaps more the european model but SOCIALIST all the same.

[HGXC]

You know nothing about me or my expression of charity. I believe in helping people get a opportunity but I am against the government making these decisions for me. True acts of helping benefit both the giver and receiver, tax and redistribution of wealth helps neither and is wrong. Treat all people the same, The real way to a fair tax structure is a flat tax. Class warfare is a dishonest hateful act. I can name far more people who don;t work hard and are looking for a cheap way out at others expense then you can point out the incompetent company owner. The Rich that are target to pay are not just the corporate CEO or retired with a golden parachute. Its hard working people who are sending children thru school and after many years of working and trying to get a better life have now got to a point where they can start to save for retirement. 3 days after open heart surgery I had my critical care hospital room run a phone wire so I could catch up on my work on my computer. 2 weeks after I went home with heart pump installed to keep me alive I attended meeting at work and i was back to work on battery power in less then 6 weeks full time. No copping out on permanent disability, No prolonged recovery period to get used to my new way of life. No I had responsibilities and people who were counting on me and my paycheck. I did this same trick 10 months later when i got my new heart. returned quicker because i had a mortgage and bills were piling up. 3 years later I made up most of my lost financial ground and now I see people wanting my money because the don;t want to work harder to overcome a bad break, a poor decision on too big of a mortgage? They loose a job and don't immediately work 2 until they get back to their feet.

F that. That is not the spirit that made out country great. Its not the idiot CEO you get to target with your anger about personal disappointment. It people like me or small business owners who are trying to build an enterprise at great risk. The people who are willing to work hard and take the risks should get their spoils. The lazy assholes sitting home unemployed and unwilling try dig their way out watching Oprah yelling "yeah baby take their money and give it to me" well they should not be rewarded for looking for a easy way out. I didn't teach that to my daughters and so far they are industrious young ladies. And i don;t think our country should encourage that with a tax policy that punishes those who are successful.

I have more trust in free markets that the stealing Wolf politicians who seek power buy telling the masses they will take from one group and give them something. That Guy with an accounting degree making 36k should call me up and i will either help him find a higher paying job now or coach him on how to set up his future to earn more in a few years. He is not a loser he is a winner in the making just paying his dues. It seems paying your dues is out of style lately.

Dennis
[/quote]

[rafaelcjr]

[HGXC]

Lets take it on item at a time. Mortgages. Who's fault is it if you can't pay your mortgage? Did you make sure you had the salary to afford the house in the first place, and by that I mean did you have an out if you got sick or became unemployed?

Did you get a straight 15 or 30 or did you try to buy too much house and used a 1 year variable or interest only type of product? Now, (and BTW if you want to compare educational background, competency in careers your on) I said nothing of race and typically liberal airheads try to make economic personal responsibility arguments into this because they have no answers for the simple economic facts.

The American dream is that you have the freedom to educate and work hard to go after your dreams, it never said you were guaranteed a house, a nice car or a health care policy. No that is for you to arrange. Most of the mortgages that went belly up went to people who bought too much house for their income using a perfect situation of no illness both employed and 1 year variables as their means to get into their home. When things changed as they always have and always will (I have lived thru 5 recessions), these people went busted.

I feel as bad for them and I feel bad for business that can't cut it. But I don't believe either should automatically be bailed out. Not with me paying more taxes then others.

If you really want to know i believe we all should pay the same percentage rate above a poverty line, no socialism, no income redistribution, f*** that.

If i make 1 million and the rate is 20% then I pay 200.000. If you make 100,000 you pay 20,000. Thats it. When Bill Gates goes to a movie he pays the same rate as i do. The don't charge him $100 and me 2.

Now I had the opportunity to go on permanent disability but I did not because it was the wrong thing to do. I could still do my job with some discomfort, and do it well. I didn't want to model being a low life lazy taker to my children. I have a responsibility as a father to lead and demonstrate drive and determination, pride and the fight to overcome life's obstacles.

Look at those crowds at the Obama rallies, how many of them would have refused disability> probably a good chuck are on the dole already looking for more.

How about you? are you going to be paying more? are you approaching a 5%er. I just heard that they are already reconsidering (did you think they wouldn't) I heard its down to $125,000 combined and it will drop more.

I don't defend the CEO's of Fanny Mae or Freddy. The ones who did the damage were appointed by Clinton and are gone with their money already. I also hate the republican Banker who rip off the trust of the public as well. But this redistribution, this punishing of people like me who worked hard, studied got two Masters, raised his children, paid for their school. High School as well!!!

Now you want to take my money and give it to people who were greedy and wanted too much house, or too stupid to learn about mortgages and finances or see a Lawyer for help. Well that is not right. I shouldn't be punished for that.

Dennis

[HGXC]

Lets take it on item at a time. Mortgages. Who's fault is it if you can't pay your mortgage? Did you make sure you had the salary to afford the house in the first place, and by that I mean did you have an out if you got sick or became unemployed?

Did you get a straight 15 or 30 or did you try to buy too much house and used a 1 year variable or interest only type of product? Now, (and BTW if you want to compare educational background, competency in careers your on) I said nothing of race and typically liberal airheads try to make economic personal responsibility arguments into this because they have no answers for the simple economic facts.

The American dream is that you have the freedom to educate and work hard to go after your dreams, it never said you were guaranteed a house, a nice car or a health care policy. No that is for you to arrange. Most of the mortgages that went belly up went to people who bought too much house for their income using a perfect situation of no illness both employed and 1 year variables as their means to get into their home. When things changed as they always have and always will (I have lived thru 5 recessions), these people went busted.

I feel as bad for them and I feel bad for business that can't cut it. But I don't believe either should automatically be bailed out. Not with me paying more taxes then others.

If you really want to know i believe we all should pay the same percentage rate above a poverty line, no socialism, no income redistribution, f*** that.

If i make 1 million and the rate is 20% then I pay 200.000. If you make 100,000 you pay 20,000. Thats it. When Bill Gates goes to a movie he pays the same rate as i do. The don't charge him $100 and me 2.

Now I had the opportunity to go on permanent disability but I did not because it was the wrong thing to do. I could still do my job with some discomfort, and do it well. I didn't want to model being a low life lazy taker to my children. I have a responsibility as a father to lead and demonstrate drive and determination, pride and the fight to overcome life's obstacles.

Look at those crowds at the Obama rallies, how many of them would have refused disability> probably a good chuck are on the dole already looking for more.

How about you? are you going to be paying more? are you approaching a 5%er. I just heard that they are already reconsidering (did you think they wouldn't) I heard its down to $125,000 combined and it will drop more.

I don't defend the CEO's of Fanny Mae or Freddy. The ones who did the damage were appointed by Clinton and are gone with their money already. I also hate the republican Banker who rip off the trust of the public as well. But this redistribution, this punishing of people like me who worked hard, studied got two Masters, raised his children, paid for their school. High School as well!!!

Now you want to take my money and give it to people who were greedy and wanted too much house, or too stupid to learn about mortgages and finances or see a Lawyer for help. Well that is not right. I shouldn't be punished for that.

Dennis