slip slip sliding down the rabbit hole to crazy town...
I guess politics and hang gliding shouldn't mix. I'll bow out before it gets ugly.
You applied the crazy emote to gun owners and just described their position as crazy town. The only person even starting to make this ugly is you, with some subtle attacks.
BS SG
Look at the title of your thread.
bury button.
Whats wrong with the title? This ruling does upset anti-gun people. Ill tone it down even more. _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Remember WE are sending truckloads of money to the federal governemnt every day via taxes. Empires are built by the hands of slaves. If your earning money 'above the table' (and buying guns or hang gliders with it) then you're contributing to the very system that you you fear and say will eventually evolve into a dictatorship that must be violently toppled.
If you truly believe that the federal government is evolving into a dictatorship, and that it will very soon be too late for peaceful resistance, then why are you still employed?
Just some food for thought. _________________ Carpool to local flying sites from Atlanta:
http://www.flyhighatlanta.com
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H2 AT FL CL FSL
Mark IV
If china were next door and ran across the border with sticks they would easily destroy our military.
So why wouldnt 300 million citizens, 150 million adults? with hand guns, rifles, road side bombs, moltav cocktails, etc, not be able to take out a military force of 1.2 million using guerilla tactics? Blood bath yes. Automatic win for the military? No way. Not without destroying the entire country they live in too. Unlike the chinese, we are already deeply entrenched. _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
I have no issues with people owning guns for hunting or self-defense, but I think there should be some limits on the weaponry that the ordinary citizens are allowed to own and I would prefer a country where Joe Knucklehead is not walking around in public packing heat.
You mean like certain cops? _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
I am concerned about the degradation of civil rights that we've seen since the 911 attacks. I will respond to this by attempting to vote out of office those elected officials that support things such as illegal wiretapping and extraordinary rendition.
and when that fails? _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
I am concerned about the degradation of civil rights that we've seen since the 911 attacks. I will respond to this by attempting to vote out of office those elected officials that support things such as illegal wiretapping and extraordinary rendition.
and when that fails?
Peaceful resistance. Civil disobediance. General work strikes. _________________ Carpool to local flying sites from Atlanta:
http://www.flyhighatlanta.com
----------------------------------------------------------
H2 AT FL CL FSL
Mark IV
That was then, this is now. The technology has changed. In the mid 1700s, a citizen army armed with rifles was an effective fighting force. Today, they would be cannon fodder. Any of the four branches of our armed services could put a bomb on your house today and you'd never even hear the aircraft that delivered it.
dfurlano wrote:
I can't speak for the other 80+ million gun owners in the USA, but I will not willingly surrender my firearms like the gun owners in Australia and Great Britain meekly did in the 90s. The only thing that keeps a totalitarian police state at bay is an armed citizenry, and the fear that those armed citizens will rise against the state. That's why tyrannical regimes from the left and right political spectrums always seek to disarm the population as Priority #1.
Americans who think that a tyrannical state cannot possibly take hold here in the USA are either ignorant (unknowing), preoccupied, blind (metaphorically), or self-deceived.
Apathy always seems to rule (i.e. only about 20% of Americans were directly involved in the independence rebellion against Great Briatain), but I've made the conscious decision that the state will have to take my firearms "from my cold dead fingers." Call it armed civil disobedience. And I hardly qualify as a redneck with a 75 IQ.
Although it may initially take the lives of a number of victimized gun owners (possibly me too?), once the tyrannical state feels continued armed resistence (which is highly infectious in the population), they will fold like a cheap pack of cards and run for their own lives.
OK, you're starting to scare me. If you look at the the number of states who have had their governments overturned in the last 50 years, how many have been done by a citizen army? Very, very few. (Castro comes to mind.) It is most commonly either done by an organized campaign of civil disobedience, or by a faction of the existing army.
I am concerned about the degradation of civil rights that we've seen since the 911 attacks. I will respond to this by attempting to vote out of office those elected officials that support things such as illegal wiretapping and extraordinary rendition.
Don't get me wrong, if you are a hunter, marksman, or other shooter, I don't want to mess up your hobby. If you have a gun for protection, I'd like you to evaluate the available statistics and make sure that it is a good idea. In either case, I'd like you to keep your guns locked up when they are not in your personal possession.
The best defense against a tyrannical govemment is the ballot box and the law.
Also, the Supreme Court decision that I think was the impetus for this thread was about a law that prohibited handguns, which would be nearly useless against any military force.
That was then, this is now? Technology advantages are limited in the long run. Recent military history has proven that David can still defeat Goliath. Cheap AK-47s, RPGs (rocket propelled grenades), IEDs (improvised explosive devices) made from artillery shells, and guerrilla tactics have checked the largest superpower on earth. The only thing that can ultimately defeat this type of warfare involves tactical nukes, massive carpet bombing, or total door-to-door infantry clearing action.
The ballot box and the law? Certainly preferable to bloodshed, by a long shot. However, the 2nd Amendment is the ultimate bulwark against a tyrannical government when the ballot box and the law fail to protect the citizens. The amendment never was intended for hunting or shooting sports, but for the right of self protection.
I'm starting to scare you? I understand. Armed insurrection is not a pleasant thought, especially since Americans have not experienced warfare in the lower 48 for nearly 150 years.
The DC case about hand guns? Yes, in the immediate sense. In the greater sense, this case was a huge landmark case on the entire 2nd Amendment--the first one in many, many decades.
Lack of governments being overturned by an armed citizenry in recent history? True. That's what makes the USA's constitution unique in the world--Americans are the only citizens in the entire world that are constitutionally guaranteed the individual right to keep and bear arms. That's precisely why a tyrannical government in the USA would find itself in a very different position than any other government on earth--the citizens are armed here (80,000,000 gun owners and counting, with over 250,000,000 firearms and counting).
I have no issues with people owning guns for hunting or self-defense, but I think there should be some limits on the weaponry that the ordinary citizens are allowed to own and I would prefer a country where Joe Knucklehead is not walking around in public packing heat.
You mean like certain cops?
No, I'm willing to accept the fact that in their line work guns are a necessary evil. I was referring more to Joe Knucklehead (average citizen) who has limited emotional control and/or intelligence and whom I barely trust behind the wheel of an automobile.
I am concerned about the degradation of civil rights that we've seen since the 911 attacks. I will respond to this by attempting to vote out of office those elected officials that support things such as illegal wiretapping and extraordinary rendition.
and when that fails?
Peaceful resistance. Civil disobediance. General work strikes.
and when your friends and relatives start to mysteriously disappear?
That stuff is great, right up to the point the govt becomes a tyranny, and then what? When youre put to work at gun point, you no longer have a choice. _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
I have no issues with people owning guns for hunting or self-defense, but I think there should be some limits on the weaponry that the ordinary citizens are allowed to own and I would prefer a country where Joe Knucklehead is not walking around in public packing heat.
You mean like certain cops?
No, I'm willing to accept the fact that in their line work guns are a necessary evil. I was referring more to Joe Knucklehead (average citizen) who has limited emotional control and/or intelligence and whom I barely trust behind the wheel of an automobile.
I hear ya, just pointing out the hypocrisy that many people automatically feel comfortable with a cop having a firearm, who may have a previous drug record, and nothing more than a highschool education, but freak out if their PHD neighbour, who is a gun safety expert has one in the home.
I remember back when I lived near Washington DC, they had such a hard time hiring anyone as a police officer, they were hiring people with drug records The media was clowning them. A badge doesnt mean you should automatically be trusted with a firearm. Its nothing special. _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
.... because we all know peacefull disobedience of german law by the Jews did wonders for overthrowing that german tyrant.......
...... oh wait, they were herded off to work camps, and slaughtered by the millions...... _________________ H4, Litespeed 4 w/ Mylar sail.
Previous: Airwave K2, Wills Wing Eagle 145
.... because we all know peacefull disobedience of german law by the Jews did wonders for overthrowing that german tyrant.......
...... oh wait, they were herded off to work camps, and slaughtered by the millions......
So you're saying the US is gearing up for a crazy genocide?
That wasn't a citizenry vs a government, it was a planned extermination.
Look at India
Look at the Ukraine
The point I'm trying to make is that if this country is indeed going in a terrible direction, why sit around and wait for a war. Get off your keister and stop it before it's too late. _________________ Carpool to local flying sites from Atlanta:
http://www.flyhighatlanta.com
----------------------------------------------------------
H2 AT FL CL FSL
Mark IV
I am concerned about the degradation of civil rights that we've seen since the 911 attacks. I will respond to this by attempting to vote out of office those elected officials that support things such as illegal wiretapping and extraordinary rendition.
and when that fails?
Peaceful resistance. Civil disobediance. General work strikes.
and when your friends and relatives start to mysteriously disappear?
That stuff is great, right up to the point the govt becomes a tyranny, and then what? When youre put to work at gun point, you no longer have a choice.
Agreed! Act now, don't wait until it's gun time. _________________ Carpool to local flying sites from Atlanta:
http://www.flyhighatlanta.com
----------------------------------------------------------
H2 AT FL CL FSL
Mark IV
.... because we all know peacefull disobedience of german law by the Jews did wonders for overthrowing that german tyrant.......
...... oh wait, they were herded off to work camps, and slaughtered by the millions......
So you're saying the US is gearing up for a crazy genocide?
I dont think anyone is saying or implying this in any way. They are simply in support of the original fail safe, the 2nd amendment, to lessen the probability that this could ever happen here.
Quote:
That wasn't a citizenry vs a government, it was a planned extermination.
We can play with words all day long, but the fact is, a german govt, became a tyranny, and slaughtered millions of its citizens. Let us not forget that they made guns illegal and stripped the citizens of all firearms before they did this. Smart move huh?
Quote:
Look at India
Look at the Ukraine
The point I'm trying to make is that if this country is indeed going in a terrible direction, why sit around and wait for a war. Get off your keister and stop it before it's too late.
I think everyone is in support of that. But how many times are we given a choice between a lessor of two evils to vote for? Our leaders and choice of leaders has sucked ass for too long. _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Last edited by sg on Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
"The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." -- Henry St. George Tucker, in Blackstone'ss 1768 Commentaries on the Laws of England
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
-- Mohandas Ghandi.
"I didn't see any NRA officials killing babies in Waco..." -- P.J. O'Rourke, author of "Parliament of Whores"
“The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” -- Thomas Jefferson
"My excellent colleagues have forgotten these bitter lessons of history. The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines the way vivid stories of gun crime routinely do. But few saw the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed-where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once." -- Justice Alex Kozinski in his dissent on the case of Silveira v. Lockye
"The simple truth -- born of experience -- is that tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people. Our own sorry history bears this out: Disarmament was the tool of choice for subjugating both slaves and free blacks in the South. In Florida, patrols searched blacks' homes for weapons, confiscated those found and punished their owners without judicial process. In the North, by contrast, blacks exercised their right to bear arms to defend against racial mob violence. As Chief Justice Taney well appreciated, the institution of slavery required a class of people who lacked the means to resist. See Dred Scott v. Sandford, (1857) (finding black citizenship unthinkable because it would give blacks the right to "keep and carry arms wherever they went"). A revolt by Nat Turner and a few dozen other armed blacks could be put down without much difficulty; one by four million armed blacks would have meant big trouble."All too many of the other great tragedies of history -- Stalin's atrocities, the killing fields of Cambodia, the Holocaust, to name but a few -- were perpetrated by armed troops against unarmed populations. Many could well have been avoided or mitigated, had the perpetrators known their intended victims were equipped with a rifle and twenty bullets apiece, as the Militia Act required here." -- Federal Appellate Judge Alex Kozinski, once a refugee from Romanian tyranny himself, in his stinging dissent (one of six) of the May 6, 2003 "Silveira vs. Lockyear" decision by the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit which upheld the constitutionality of California’s so-called "Assault Weapons Control Act _________________ TSA, DHS, NDAA and SOPA Seig Heil!
Come on guys! Disputes can be resolved. I propose a duel.
The person being challenged to a duel gets to choose the weapon. How 'bout hang gliders with a lance mounted to the nose. It would almost be like a combination joust - aerial dogfight. That also might make a good spectator sport.
If china were next door and ran across the border with sticks they would easily destroy our military.
So why wouldnt 300 million citizens, 150 million adults? with hand guns, rifles, road side bombs, moltav cocktails, etc, not be able to take out a military force of 1.2 million using guerilla tactics? Blood bath yes. Automatic win for the military? No way. Not without destroying the entire country they live in too. Unlike the chinese, we are already deeply entrenched.
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The media was clowning them. A badge doesnt mean you should automatically be trusted with a firearm. Its nothing special.