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noman3
1 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Jan 2009
Posts: 4621
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 Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: |
 #121 |
thats a nice glider 4 a bunch of thieves!
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mapjim
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 344
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:04 pm Post subject: |
#122 |
| soren_ladegaard wrote: |
| Norway is outside the European Union and therefor high taxes and customs are added to the price of parts shipped from Austria. |
This seems odd. Norway may be outside the EU, but it's inside the European Economic Area (and Schengen). (I lived there for a few months.) The Norwegian customs web site seems to say that there's only the 25% Norwegian VAT applied to items from the EEA (and presumably Austrian VAT isn't charged for exports).
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soren_ladegaard
1 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 573
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:34 pm Post subject: |
#123 |
After 4 years and almost 600 post I am leaving this forum due to personal attacks. This forum has turned very hostile with 5-6 users harrassing others just for the sake of it. The forum lacks moderation so they noone's stopping them.
I am out of here!  |
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marcelo_beliera
Joined: 12 Jan 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Neuquén, Argentina
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:55 pm Post subject: |
#124 |
| FPeel wrote: |
Too bad it's not really a Seedwings glider. Those are only "Made in America".
Demand the original. Anything else is nothing more than a cheap ripoff. |
"Cheap Ripoff"? I trust any device made in Austria as much as a "made in the USA" one. They are very skillful and detail-oriented people. To name just one example, the best skis in the world are made in Austria. I can bet that their gliders are top world class too. With the Space they have achieved an ease of handling never seen in an intermediate wing before, based on the DHV ratings.
Manufacturers from the whole world send their gliders to Germany for certification (not to USHGA); the world air sports federation (FAI) is French, and the list goes on ...
Many times our ignorance can make us think that the rest of the world is living in the stone age. Our pride makes us not the best. |
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noman3
1 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Jan 2009
Posts: 4621
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:50 pm Post subject: |
#125 |
they are still thieves 
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FMAN
1 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 1181
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:21 pm Post subject: |
#126 |
http://www.seedwings.at/en/hanggliders/crossover/page.html 
| Quote: |
Manufacturers from the whole world send their gliders to Germany for certification (not to USHGA); the world air sports federation (FAI) is French, and the list goes on ...
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Are DHV tests adequate?  |
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joefaust
2 thumbs up
Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 74
Location: Los Angeles
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joefaust
2 thumbs up
Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 74
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:15 pm Post subject: |
#128 |
The starting post there is:
Copyright infringement on Bob Trampenau Seedwings tradename
The world hang gliding community from the early days of modern hang gliding strives for and prides itself on self-regulation and we encourage self-responsibility in all our actions. The inherent nature of hang glider pilots is to be free yet we act in accordance with natural laws and respect universal values that transcend regulation.
I made a good faith agreement with Andreas and Manfred Bangheri of Tyrol, Austria who were Sensor dealers at the time to license the manufacture of the popular Sensor 510. Additionally, a manufacturing license was agreed upon for the all new Sensor 610-144 size only being developed by myself and my team in Goleta, California. All sail and airframe technologies and assistance along with the agreed payment of monies were completed. I arranged and delivered technical service to Andreas and Manfred Bangheri helping them to become a hang glider manufacturer. Our agreement has a need to respect tradenames and it is common law that continues following their agreement with me that they essentially agreed to forever respect the issue of tradenames and logo’s, even if technology exchange ended. Our agreement and contract is viewable here:
http://tinyurl.com/Seedwings1992contract
My company with its copyrighted tradename, product name and logo, Seedwings and Sensor, originating in 1975, has devoted 100% of all profits to the development of the modern hang glider and I personally have devoted my entire professional life to its scientific development. In such a small community as ours where the sports survival depends upon mutual respect, cooperation and friendly competition we should not be infringing upon each other’s copyrighted trade names. Andreas and Manfred Bangheri are wrongfully using without any agreement what so ever my company name after the contract period ended. There is no difference if Icaro was continuing to infringe upon Moyes name or the former Wills Wing Europe continuing to use their names long after their technical exchange with Moyes or Wills Wing had ended.
I respectfully ask the world hang gliding community, all hang gliding professionals, associations, publishers and alike not to use my company name except in reference to my products and in regard to communications with me, (Bob) Robert Trampenau. As for laws, in the USA, any product sold or bearing the name of another company can be immediately taken possession of by local authorities because it’s wrong. Andreas and Manfred Bangheri and their company is misleading the hang gliding public and causing confusion in product identification. I have no connection with and I am not in any way in control of or responsible for Andreas and Manfred Bangheri’s quality control, airworthiness or independent product development.
I ask Andreas and Manfred Bangheri and their company publicly to stop using my names, logo and photographs in connection with any product they make, distribute, advertise or deliver and change their company’s name now. The sport of hang gilding’s best route is to maintain respect for trade names. Our community could better support any company when they are playing the game fairly and with respect. The late Rob Kells at my request in the mid 90’s stood up in my defense and made several phone calls to US concerns expressing the wrongful and illegal use of my trade name. Rob’s help is greatly appreciated to this day.
Bob Trampenau
Seedwings |
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marcelo_beliera
Joined: 12 Jan 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Neuquén, Argentina
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:16 pm Post subject: |
#129 |
Hi Joe,
I did not know the story, if things are as you say, I agree that the european company should choose a different name.
They are now producing a whole new range of products, so maybe it would even be be good for them to have their own identity.
I see them as a very interesting option, their hang gliders are having very good reviews by the european press and the DHV test reports.
But this legal issue does not change the fact that there has been people in this forum attacking others just for posting good reviews about the european brand hang gliders.
We HG pilots are still too few, let's help our sport grow finding the things that we have in common.
Best regards and good flights to all. |
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noman3
1 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Jan 2009
Posts: 4621
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:41 pm Post subject: |
#130 |
| marcelo_beliera wrote: |
Hi Joe,
I did not know the story, if things are as you say, I agree that the european company should choose a different name.
They are now producing a whole new range of products, so maybe it would even be be good for them to have their own identity.
I see them as a very interesting option, their hang gliders are having very good reviews by the european press and the DHV test reports.
But this legal issue does not change the fact that there has been people in this forum attacking others just for posting good reviews about the european brand hang gliders.
We HG pilots are still too few, let's help our sport grow finding the things that we have in common.
Best regards and good flights to all. |
they are thieves plain and simple.Soren was endorsing them and i called him on the company he was endorsing.He could not admit he was wrong and chose to leave.SEEDWINGS EURO are a bunch of thieves in my book.When they change their name i will stop calling them what they are,THIEVES!
Im man enough to admit when im wrong are you. 
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I have a dead hot water heater in my front yard. |
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marco
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 18
Location: Pforzheim, Germany
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:56 am Post subject: |
#131 |
They are all thieves, they all stole from Otto!
Just joking. |
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st1lgar
3 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 341
Location: Oak Ridges, ON
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:27 am Post subject: |
#132 |
Yeah, and they eat babies! 
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"Men were not meant to leave the Earth. Spend too much time in the clouds and you never want to come back down again. I know skinchangers who've tried hawks, owls, ravens. Even in their own skins, they sit moony, staring up at the bloody blue" -- Hoggon
George R.R. Martin |
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marco
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 18
Location: Pforzheim, Germany
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:40 pm Post subject: |
#133 |
| really? |
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astronaut
3 thumbs up
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 67
Location: Outer space
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| Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:21 am Post subject: |
#134 |
From another debate on a different forum:
| Quote: |
| A corporation in Austria, has been and wishes to continue to capitalize on Bob's good name and reputation. |
I believe that in 2011 this case has been "reduced" to a matter of morale, dignity, decency etc.
But to claim that Seedwings Europe in 2011 is capitalizing on Bob Trampenau's name and reputation is probably stretching it too far.
Seedwings Europe probably manufacture in the region of 200 gliders per year plus harnesses, accessories and now a new nano light trike. They have their "own" brand now.
Should have changed their name according to the contract. No doubt about that! But I don't think they are capitalizing on Bob's name. In fact they may be the reason that the Seedwings name is still alive around the world. |
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astronaut
3 thumbs up
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 67
Location: Outer space
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SeeMarkFly
2 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 1681
Location: Lakeview Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:28 am Post subject: |
#136 |
| astronaut wrote: |
| Should have changed their name according to the contract. No doubt about that! |
If that is the case then they have breached their contract.
That makes everyone's obligations null and void, on both sides of the contract.
Refund their money and then sue them for the "breach of contract" and get the money back that you just gave them. |
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andyh
3 thumbs up
Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 117
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:26 pm Post subject: |
#137 |
| st1lgar wrote: |
| Yeah, and they eat babies! |
mmm ... babies .. us Euros (not that us UK-ites like to classed as Euros) sure love babies
I don't see you guys giving Fawkes (who flies a Seedwings EUROPE Funky) the same s1ht you gave Soren. admittedly, she's a damn sight cuter than Soren, but anyway. bunch of hypocrites ...
(sorry Fawkes)
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andyh
3 thumbs up
Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 117
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:33 pm Post subject: |
#138 |
thanks, didn't know they had a UK distro. they're just down the road from me 
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st1lgar
3 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 341
Location: Oak Ridges, ON
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:57 pm Post subject: |
#139 |
| andyh wrote: |
| st1lgar wrote: |
| Yeah, and they eat babies! |
mmm ... babies .. us Euros (not that us UK-ites like to classed as Euros) sure love babies
I don't see you guys giving Fawkes (who flies a Seedwings EUROPE Funky) the same s1ht you gave Soren. admittedly, she's a damn sight cuter than Soren, but anyway. bunch of hypocrites ...
(sorry Fawkes) |
Well, you definitely put me in a wrong basket... unless you can't understand the joke. Look it up.
I do agree with your last statement.
_________________
"Men were not meant to leave the Earth. Spend too much time in the clouds and you never want to come back down again. I know skinchangers who've tried hawks, owls, ravens. Even in their own skins, they sit moony, staring up at the bloody blue" -- Hoggon
George R.R. Martin |
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fly,surf,&ski
3 thumbs up
Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Posts: 1092
Location: Torrey Pines
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:52 pm Post subject: |
#140 |
| noman3 wrote: |
| marcelo_beliera wrote: |
Hi Joe,
I did not know the story, if things are as you say, I agree that the european company should choose a different name.
They are now producing a whole new range of products, so maybe it would even be be good for them to have their own identity.
I see them as a very interesting option, their hang gliders are having very good reviews by the european press and the DHV test reports.
But this legal issue does not change the fact that there has been people in this forum attacking others just for posting good reviews about the european brand hang gliders.
We HG pilots are still too few, let's help our sport grow finding the things that we have in common.
Best regards and good flights to all. |
they are thieves plain and simple.Soren was endorsing them and i called him on the company he was endorsing.He could not admit he was wrong and chose to leave.SEEDWINGS EURO are a bunch of thieves in my book.When they change their name i will stop calling them what they are,THIEVES!
Im man enough to admit when im wrong are you. |
I wonder how Wills Wing would feel if I cloned their glider designs(not hard to due as you just buy a new one, and reverse engineer it) and started selling it as a "Wills Wing San Diego" glider.
I could even bypass all the dealers/instructors and sell my gliders factory direct for less 
I don't think they would be too happy, and I would expect some sort of legal action.....
Basically IMO Seedwings Europe took advantage of the fact that they knew an international trademark infringement lawsuit would cost more than Bob was willing to spend. 
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