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MysticWizard
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:59 pm    Post subject: Foot Launch "Clinic" Reply with quote #1   
Hey Guys.. I posted the announcement below over at Oz and Davis rightfully reamed me for suggesting shortcutting "training hills". Well, frankly, some of us don't have access to "training hills", so we learn however we can. For all you guys who want a "quickie" on the basics of foot launch here it is. The "Clinic" did a great job of introducing me to foot launch .. but it would have been better if I had training hill experience, but it DID get provide me with everything I needed to make that first "jump". Think of it as a "Public Service", as I'm doing it to offset some of James' costs as well as make as many people aware of it as possible.

FOOT LAUNCH CLINIC ANNOUNCEMENT

For all novice pilots, James Tindle of the Florida Ridge, will be holding a Foot Launch clinic October 12 – 14th at Henson's Gap in Dunlap, TN. Pilots from outside south Florida are welcome to attend and learn.

I attended this program last year and obtained my FL (foot launch) designation. Advanced pilots who attend this program can also obtain their Cliff Launch designation. The program was excellent.

James' program covers the As through Zs of the basics of launching off a mountain. Areas reviewed included 1. Walking and understanding the Landing Zone, 2. How to analyze launch conditions, 3. The proper way of holding the glider while preparing to launch, 4. Proper angle of attack and accelerating (running) adequately while launching, 5. Transitioning from an upright launch position into prone position into the harness after launch, 6. Ridge Soaring (for advanced students), and, 7. Landing set up.

The clinic provides you with personalized instruction that includes help from experienced foot launch pilots. Two way radios are fitted to you, and the guys “talk you down” to the LZ after you launch. To put it simply, it's a great way to learn to launch off a mountain with minimum apprehension and maximum safety.

James has also made arrangements with a local hotel for special rates if you attend this clinic.

This was a great program for me as it helped me psychologically “jump” off my first mountain. My first “jump” was as scary as my first solo – and it sure helped to be with a group of apprehensive "first-timers" as well as the experienced instructors that James provided. Since then, I have launched off numerous mountain sites with knowledge and confidence.

Any pilots interested in attending this clinic can call James at 786-417-8778. James can give you hotel rates and other information.

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fly n mater
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: Foot Launch "Clinic" Reply with quote #2   
MysticWizard wrote:
Hey Guys.. I posted the announcement below over at Oz and Davis rightfully reamed me for suggesting shortcutting "training hills".


Not to change the subject here......BUT Dweebis is the main reason I quit reading the yahoo forum. Yes, he knows I call him that, I've said it to him. Dweebis doesn't do anything rightfully and only acts in his best interests.

I see nothing wrong with a clinic to teach new skills to people. In fact I think its great. As you say, not everybody is exposed to all types of launching, landing or other aspects of flying. Its no different than a clinic to teach aero-towing or scooter towing.

Off my soap box now, sorry for the rant.

Mater
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MysticWizard
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #3   
That's a funny name for him. I guess someone with strong, often obstinate opinions, has to get used to being called names!

Davis' main point was that it is "safer" to repeatedly run down a training hill several times before you launch off TTT's excellent radial ramp at 1500 AGL.

He also rightfully pointed out that learning the proper "pitch" of a glider is easier on an inclined training hill. (And he bitched about using 'radios" to help the students glide down and land properly in the LZ.)

After taking this "Clinic", I have launched off numerous mountains and some real "pros" have told me repeatedly that I have good to excellent "form". So, although Davis' points are well taken, his gospel does not apply to everyone - including many who read this particular forum.

It's a good clinic. And it prepared me more than adequately.

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Last edited by MysticWizard on Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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curly_cue
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #4   
MysticWizard wrote:
... (And he bitched about using 'radios" to help the students glide down and land properly in the LZ.)
...


I'm not sure why he would complain about this. They don't use radios at LMFP, but I would have been a lot more comfortable with one. I turned from base to final too low on one of my first solo's. A wing clipped the ground and threw me forward into the ground. Thankfully I wasn't hurt - just a few bruises. If I had a radio, this might have been avoided. And I could have gotten used to what altitude to make my final turn before being truly alone.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #5   
MysticWizard wrote:
Davis' main point was that it is "safer" to repeatedly run down a training hill several times before you launch off TTT's excellent radial ramp at 1500 AGL.


Okay am I missing something here? Why would one believe that at a moutain launch clinic that the first thing the instructor would do is have the students launch off a ramp when you don't have the skills?

Classic Dweebis.....

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MysticWizard
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #6   
Many people don't like radios because they believe that they cause confusion and/or create a "crutch". I was fitted with a radio at the Clinic last year and the sound and instructions were very clear and I was guided "down" very professionally. It certainly took a lot of the anxiety and "thinking" away.

On the other hand, things can go wrong. A couple of months ago, at Kagel, my radio lost battery power while I was staging for an aircraft approach and the instructor was fruitlessly trying to get me to turn into final. Relying on it made my approach way too low and dangerous, because I turned in only when I saw him jumping up and down and waving his arms.

I like radios to communicate with other pilots.. but I personally don't like them for instruction.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #7   
curly_cue wrote:
MysticWizard wrote:
... (And he bitched about using 'radios" to help the students glide down and land properly in the LZ.)
...


I'm not sure why he would complain about this. They don't use radios at LMFP, but I would have been a lot more comfortable with one. I turned from base to final too low on one of my first solo's. A wing clipped the ground and threw me forward into the ground. Thankfully I wasn't hurt - just a few bruises. If I had a radio, this might have been avoided. And I could have gotten used to what altitude to make my final turn before being truly alone.


Curty, didn't that happen on your fourth or fifth flight? By that time you would have been radioless anyway.

I appreciated not having a radio to deal with on my mountain solo. It definitely lets you feel that you're solo! Having said that, I'm very glad I had four tandems, as that was where I got the needed altitude perspective. I once heard Matt Taber say that he would like to require tandems. I couldn't imagine what it would be like to do an approach if the first time you were at altitude was your mountain solo.
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DocSoc
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #8   
FormerFF wrote:
curly_cue wrote:
MysticWizard wrote:
... (And he bitched about using 'radios" to help the students glide down and land properly in the LZ.)
...


I'm not sure why he would complain about this. They don't use radios at LMFP, but I would have been a lot more comfortable with one. I turned from base to final too low on one of my first solo's. A wing clipped the ground and threw me forward into the ground. Thankfully I wasn't hurt - just a few bruises. If I had a radio, this might have been avoided. And I could have gotten used to what altitude to make my final turn before being truly alone.


Curty, didn't that happen on your fourth or fifth flight? By that time you would have been radioless anyway.

I appreciated not having a radio to deal with on my mountain solo. It definitely lets you feel that you're solo! Having said that, I'm very glad I had four tandems, as that was where I got the needed altitude perspective. I once heard Matt Taber say that he would like to require tandems. I couldn't imagine what it would be like to do an approach if the first time you were at altitude was your mountain solo.


hey FF,

I couldn't agree more... having done Tandem and ML training together was the best way to go... by the time I went of I'd landed already at least 6 times... it was uneventful, and actually boring... it was sooo slow and I just hung there... waiting to get down to go back up on the SOLO tow...

-S

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #9   
Require tandems? No way! Never took one, didn't want one, did just fine.

Maybe that’s crazy crazy and not for everyone...that’s why tandems are available.

Foot launch clinic - Last time I was at Henson's I saw a zero mountain launch topless glider pilot from Florida freeze on the ramp in nil wind, super easy launch conditions. He just could not do it. Probably some training hill time would have helped.

His girlfriend, also with zero mountain launches, launched perfectly - which probably did not help his ego…nor did Ned’s heckling Wink

There is a shallow N facing "training hill" in the Henson's LZ. Its shallow but will work with a little wind. There is also a training hill in one of the LZ’s, Dr. Dales. Permission must be obtained before using Dr. Dales training hill.
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MysticWizard
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #10   
Quote:
There is a shallow N facing "training hill" in the Henson's LZ. Its shallow but will work with a little wind. There is also a training hill in one of the LZ’s, Dr. Dales. Permission must be obtained before using Dr. Dales training hill.


Thanks, I'll tell James this.

When all us "flatlanders" first "walked the ramp" last year... yeah. our bodies all froze up.

I didn't even try to launch Day 1. But day 2 was a lot more mentally acceptable.

"Cold" jumping isn't for everyone.

I'll never criticize anyone who decides not to launch (aerotow or foot). This sport is CrAzY enough without that kind of b.s. pressure or criticism.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #11   
I went off the mtn after 4 days at the training hills. By then I had no problem with running off the ramp. But I cannot imagine doing it cold, without any footlaunch experience. That topless pilot's girlfriend is very brave.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #12   
I don’t think I could have ran off the Henson’s ramp having never foot launched before. It's intimidating!

Even one or two flights on a training hill gives tremendous confidence that your glider will work when you try to foot launch it.

btw...aerotow scares the s*** out of me....
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fly n mater
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #13   
WHAT?! Am I reading this right! It IS a cold launch without any training hill training? You guys should be running down a training hill before attempting a mtn launch. crazy

I did miss something and Dweebis was right..... Laughing Never in my life did I think I would right that line.
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MysticWizard
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #14   
Quote:
btw...aerotow scares the s*** out of me...


The more variables you add to the process of taking off, the more chance that something will go wrong.

FL is very simple in concept. It also brings to me a pleasure of initiating a flight as a bird would.

I like it much better than aerotowing.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #15   
Foot launch is a simple concept, but it is a subtle complex process. Getting started riding a bike is simple concept, but a similarly subtle and complex process.

I instructed at the HG shop (SVS) which used to be at Henson's Ramp for a season and a half, back in '92-'93. Some of the first(?) Miami Florida (boat) tow only pilots were brought up to do mountain launches.

IMHO, getting consistent launches off a small hill is the way to go, initially. Fine if it's in the valley below Henson's. I vaguely remember assisting with tow only pilot foot launch training, on at least one occasion, on a slope across the road from the primary LZ. Doing something similar, first, would be the best way to go.

I've seen some nasty launches at Henson's, a bigger share being (previously, and/or mostly) tow only pilots. Be careful either way.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #16   
It looks like this is covered in the curriculum, but I'll share potential pitfall for AT pilots learning FL.

I went to LMFP a few days ago. It would be my first foot launch in 15 years, having been flying AT for the last two. I had a nice launch, but discovered I could not get my foot into the boot of my cocoon. The harness was bunching up around my thighs and I couldn't get my foot high enough. I was flailing around trying to get my foot in, pitching and rolling, until I got closer to the LZ and resigned myself to the situation so I could concentrate on my approach and demonstrate a proper whack.

I know I hung in a simulator when I first got the harness. Did I not try to go from lauch position to flying position? I can't remember.

Anyway...don't do what I did. Those pods are looking pretty good right now...maybe a Tenax.
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MysticWizard
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #17   
Last year's FL clinic covered this with simulator training (you hang off the simulator hook at Henson's and practice going from upright to prone and getting your foot into the harness.

Here's the real problem with learning FL at a "three day" clinic:

Once you get your FL designation on your card you may naively think you are "qualified" to foot launch in places you shouldn't. I have learned since obtaining my FL designation that I only knew what, perhaps 10%, of what there is to know about FL? Adjusting to crosswinds, correcting for a wing lifting during launch, proper use of wire crews, launching semi flat slope or in no wind, high altitude launches, etc. etc. These are not addressed in a three day clinic.

But, the clinic is good for what it is. A thorough introduction and a tool for getting qualified and rated to launch off relatively safe launches in favorable weather conditions.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #18   
MysticWizard wrote:
Last year's FL clinic covered this with simulator training (you hang off the simulator hook at Henson's and practice going from upright to prone and getting your foot into the harness.

Here's the real problem with learning FL at a "three day" clinic:

Once you get your FL designation on your card you may naively think you are "qualified" to foot launch in places you shouldn't. I have learned since obtaining my FL designation that I only knew what, perhaps 10%, of what there is to know about FL? Adjusting to crosswinds, correcting for a wing lifting during launch, proper use of wire crews, launching semi flat slope or in no wind, high altitude launches, etc. etc. These are not addressed in a three day clinic.

But, the clinic is good for what it is. A thorough introduction and a tool for getting qualified and rated to launch off relatively safe launches in favorable weather conditions.

Ditto Ditto Ditto Ditto

PS: Guess who got owned by the small hill at LMFP? 1 guess he is a master of "Mystic" arts!!!! surrender

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #19   
Quote:
Guess who got 'owned' by the small hill at LMFP?


Yeah, not much "Mystic" about my no wind foot launch practice yesterday. Dropped to the ground and my knees carved two deep crevices in the training hill field as I skidded across the infield. I cried for "Mercy" while the instructor threatened to "revoke" my Henson's and Lookout flying privileges.

How friggin embarrassing! 'Embarassed'

Matt laughed when I told him what happened.'Laughing'

Went back later and had a private session with Christopher. Have since flown six or seven no wind launches off that small bunny hill with the cr@ppy slopes... so I've proven I'm not a total dufus.

LMFP rules! Great instruction and encouragement!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #20   
MysticWizard wrote:
Quote:
Guess who got 'owned' by the small hill at LMFP?


Yeah, not much "Mystic" about my no wind foot launch practice yesterday. Dropped to the ground and my knees carved two deep crevices in the training hill field as I skidded across the infield. I cried for "Mercy" while the instructor threatened to "revoke" my Henson's and Lookout flying privileges.

How friggin embarrassing! 'Embarassed'

Matt laughed when I told him what happened.'Laughing'

Went back later and had a private session with Christopher. Have since flown six or seven no wind launches off that small bunny hill with the cr@ppy slopes... so I've proven I'm not a total dufus.

LMFP rules! Great instruction and encouragement!


I am SOOO proud of you!!! mosh thumbsup mosh

Next is the Big hill!!! Do it quick so you can try out your new S2!!!!

-S

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