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NMERider
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:02 pm    Post subject: Hook Knives Save Lives!!!! Reply with quote #1   
I just read a post on a local SoCal forum in which a pilot had a bad incident below launch on a mountainside and did not have a hook knife on him. The pilot who ran down to his aid also did not have a hook knife. As far as I could tell, neither pilot had any type of knife or cutting tool and the downed pilot was in some pretty real distress and needed to be cut away from his harness and glider before the rescue personnel arrived on scene.

What's worse than this is the large numbers of local pilots who have indicated to me that they don't have a hook knife in their harness or on their person whenever they fly. This is serious business and not merely some irritating protocol we should all be following. The life saved by a hook knife may not be your own. If you keep a hook knife in your harness and witness a crash, please take it with you when you run to the scene of the accident. I have it on good authority that many pilots are flying without one.

Thank you for your cooperation.

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blindrodie
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #2   
Quote:
...needed to be cut away from his harness and glider before the rescue personnel arrived on scene.


That's TOTALLY not good advise, if the reader is taking it here...Wink

I am certified but I'm not a hero on TV. "Don't move the injured party" is what comes to mind. But I'm not there and every emergency is different.

I would be the first "down the hill" to save a fellow pilot. I'm hard wired that way.

Just sayin...

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kukailimoku
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #3   
1. If not for a hook knife one of my best friends would be dead. Glad he had it...

2. With two exceptions, every accident site I've been at (HG or other...it's been quite a few thanks to some of my more "interesting" jobs over the years) not moving the victims was definitely the way to go. As for the exceptions, one was a CPR need and the other was a tandem flight where the crash left the two pilots dangling from a dead tree on a seriously steep slope and bad things would have happened if it snapped off.

My hook knife was mighty handy then...

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NMERider
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #4   
blindrodie wrote:
Quote:
...needed to be cut away from his harness and glider before the rescue personnel arrived on scene.


That's TOTALLY not good advise, if the reader is taking it here...Wink

I am certified but I'm not a hero on TV. "Don't move the injured party" is what comes to mind. But I'm not there and every emergency is different.

I would be the first "down the hill" to save a fellow pilot. I'm hard wired that way.

Just sayin...

Donate. Cool
A pilot I know was nearly killed by the wind from the helicopter rotor because they were unable to cut him away from his glider. He's now paralyzed from the neck down with the exception of one limb. One of the best ways NOT to move the injured party is by cutting his attachment to the glider. Think about it. I've been the injured party and I know what happens when somebody doesn't cut me away from my glider. The results can be fatal or paralyzing.

Yes, there will come a time when the pilot is best left alone and undisturbed in his harness but this is not always the case. Many times the lack of ability to cut away from the glider and possibly out of the harness an even out of one's clothes will result in a dead or crippled pilot.

Just because we all carry hook knives (my wish here) does not mean we have to use the hook knife but it's probably better to have a hook knife at the ready and not use it than to need one and not have it. Don't ya think so?

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NMERider
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #5   
kukailimoku wrote:
1. If not for a hook knife one of my best friends would be dead. Glad he had it...

2. With two exceptions, every accident site I've been at (HG or other...it's been quite a few thanks to some of my more "interesting" jobs over the years) not moving the victims was definitely the way to go. As for the exceptions, one was a CPR need and the other was a tandem flight where the crash left the two pilots dangling from a dead tree on a seriously steep slope and bad things would have happened if it snapped off.

My hook knife was mighty handy then...

Another reason to carry a hook knife is indirectly related to hang gliding and that is to cut a seat belt in a flipped or burning vehicle. As long as we need them when we fly then why not carry a pocket or belt-attached knife when we go to/from flying? This way we'll have one on our person in the air and during our commute. I have encountered a number of fresh wrecks over the past 150,000 miles of hang driving and I know one hang glider pilot who pulled four people from two burning cars on the freeway. A hook knife would have helped greatly.

Yes, I know it's a long shot but what the heck?

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Paul H
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #6   
A good quality, serrated blade is more useful than a hook knife for emergency situations. It is also good for repetitive usage while most of the hook knives carried by pilots are not.
Just like a helmet, removing a harness is not necessarily a good idea prior to the arrival of emergency services.
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NMERider
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #7   
Paul H wrote:
A good quality, serrated blade is more useful than a hook knife for emergency situations. It is also good for repetitive usage while most of the hook knives carried by pilots are not.
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Please keep in mind that a blunt tip is important. You can injure or kill yourself or the pilot you're trying to save. This is a Spyderco Rescue: https://www.spyderco.com/?s=rescue

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Felix
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #8   
Hook knives are a must. I used mine to cut myself down from a tree...glad it was there and handy. And man did that thing cut through the hang strap like it was going through butter!
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NMERider
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #9   
Felix wrote:
Hook knives are a must. I used mine to cut myself down from a tree...glad it was there and handy. And man did that thing cut through the hang strap like it was going through butter!
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flysurfski
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Hook Knives Save Lives!!!! Reply with quote #10   
NMERider wrote:


What's worse than this is the large numbers of local pilots who have indicated to me that they don't have a hook knife in their harness or on their person whenever they fly. This is serious business and not merely some irritating protocol we should all be following....

Thank you for your cooperation.



Great Thread NME. The one thing that has not been mentioned is the RARE event of a parachute deployment with high surface winds.


A long time HG buddy of mine got extremely lucky as a spectator(a non HG pilot) had a buck knife and was able to cut the parachute bridal as he got violently dragged and had no hook knife. It was an accidental deployment at a coastal ridge site. If the site was not visible from the side of the road on Highway 1 in California he might have been toast.....
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Last edited by flysurfski on Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NMERider
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Hook Knives Save Lives!!!! Reply with quote #11   
flysurfski wrote:
....Great Thread NME. The one thing that has not been mentioned is the RARE event of a parachute deployment with high surface winds.

A long time HG buddy of mine got extremely lucky as a spectator(a non HG pilot) had a buck knife and was able to cut the parachute bridal as he got violently dragged and had no hook knife. (old school spaghetti harness) It was an accidental deployment at a coastal ridge site. If the site was not not visible from the side of the road on Highway 1 in CA he might have been toast.....
popcorn
Great example of the utterly unexpected. thumbsup

Let's not forget to safety lanyard our hook knives with a bungee too. Not much good when dropped while hanging in the breeze. If needed, the hook knife can be used to cut the lanyard for more reach.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #12   
Paul H wrote:
A good quality, serrated blade is more useful than a hook knife for emergency situations. It is also good for repetitive usage while most of the hook knives carried by pilots are not.


I carry one of these Victorinox knives for my beach harness and a hook knife to release the tension on the bridle in case of a parachute deployment in the other harness.

Also I never have to worry about finding a bottle opener after that great XC flight Smile

https://www.victorinox.com/global/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Trailmaster/p/0.8463.MW3

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Eteamjack
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: Hook Knives Save Lives!!!! Reply with quote #13   
flysurfski wrote:
NMERider wrote:


What's worse than this is the large numbers of local pilots who have indicated to me that they don't have a hook knife in their harness or on their person whenever they fly. This is serious business and not merely some irritating protocol we should all be following....

Thank you for your cooperation.



Great Thread NME. The one thing that has not been mentioned is the RARE event of a parachute deployment with high surface winds.


A long time HG buddy of mine got extremely lucky as a spectator(a non HG pilot) had a buck knife and was able to cut the parachute bridal as he got violently dragged and had no hook knife. It was an accidental deployment at a coastal ridge site. If the site was not visible from the side of the road on Highway 1 in California he might have been toast.....
popcorn
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thermaleo
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject: What a drag Reply with quote #14   
In 2001 or thereabouts, at one of the early King Mountain comps., I went over the back a bit low - around 12,000ft or so - in strong winds. After an interesting bout of involuntary aerobatics and inversions I decided to land next to another hang glider by the dirt road in the Howe Valley, in front of the Lemhi range. It was so windy and turbulent I could not face thermaling low up the huge desert wash towards Saddle mountain, and I landed safely in the sagebrush in winds gusting to 35mph. Thanks King Local, for being there!

As we attempted to break down my wildly flapping glider, another glider appeared 1000ft overhead. Bill S was the pilot. We thought he was going to land with us, but he kept going, and I felt like a wuss for landing.

We watched him oval his way low towards the Lemhis, then suddenly to our astonishment and horror, his glider flipped and one wing folded. Almost immediately his 'chute came out and he descended at a very shallow angle in the strong wind, hitting the ground 3+ miles away. We could see the 'chute billowing, and it began to drag the glider. We watched transfixed as the 'chute continued to billow and drag the glider faster and faster. Alan - king local - said "I'm going over there" and off he went - he ran for miles and forded a river to get to the glider.. As he disappeared into the distant sagebrush I watched the chute as it blew even faster towards some wild canyon, and tried to reassure his wife, who arrived a couple of minutes later, that he would be OK!!

As it turned out Bill S had a relatively soft landing, but did not have or had lost his knife. He was on top of his glider as the chute dragged it through the boulders and sage and cacti - he said it was like the proverbial Nantucket sled ride. Eventually he managed to wriggle free of his harness and get clear - that was when the whole shebang really took off. Bill was OK but all his gear was trashed. It went for a mile or more!

So, that's one reason to carry a good knife, on a lanyard.

Leo Jones
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Arty100
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: What a drag Reply with quote #15   
Is there a reason NOT to carry a hook knife? - I cannot think of one!

I took an aerotow dolly aloft with me - the harness zipper line caught on a projection on the dolly - no hook knife would have meant landing with the dolly hanging below me - which would have been very unpleasant and possibly fatal.

Any knife needs to:
Be totally safe when not needed
Be usable with one hand only
Be able to be used to quickly sever a line that you cannot see, without risking slashing your legs
Be on a lanyard (I use thin bungee cord) so that it cannot fall

Mine was $35 and was probably the best $35 ever spent
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ksglider
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #16   
Hi All;

We here in the Wichita KS area get aloft almost exclusively by towing. Every one of us carries a readily available tethered hook knife. Also, on our per-launch checklist is the line item "Hook knife - Procedure" to remind us about it and to review how to use it - prior to EVERY flight.

In the unlikely event of a failure to release from the line at the top of the tow, we are thus "programmed" to cut the line - DO IT NOW - DON'T WAIT!

Concerning the prior discussions about using a hook knife to help extract someone from a tree - what's a tree? :)
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miraclepieco
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #17   
Quote:
And man did that thing cut through the hang strap like it was going through butter!


A flying buddy landed in the ocean somehow sitting on top of his wing. He said Felix's words above verbatim: "...went through the hang loops like butter."

That being said, I don't carry a hook knife: too much additional weight and wind resistance Wink
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Lucky_Chevy
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #18   
Pilots with Tennax 3 harnesses, where to you put your knife.
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NMERider
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #19   
Lucky_Chevy wrote:
Pilots with Tennax 3 harnesses, where to you put your knife.
Does your Tenax 3 have a set of chest camera pockets? If not, you may either have to stitch on a pocket or wear the hook knife where it won't poke you in flight but you can reach it after unzipping while hanging in distress.
BTW - These Benchmade Rescue Hook Strap Cutters are being offered for 1/2 price http://www.ebay.com/itm/272618280010

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #20   
Had this knife pouch on the shoulder strap of the beach harness for quite a few hundred hours now without any problems. This setup would fit most harness types.. Velcro strap fastens round the shoulder strap very easy to reach if needed. I recall the pouch was originally a mobile phone belt carrier.

If you are ever unlucky enough to land your wing in thick or deep scrub vegetation, the ability to cut the hang straps may be very useful to get out of the glider.

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