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ChattaroyMan
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:27 pm    Post subject: Mount Leona Reply with quote #1   
As much as I hate advertising that I'm a doofus I feel this video might be instructional for others who wish to overfill their plate on a flying day. I love flying new sites, scoping them out, learning as much as I can about them and determining how best to fly them. At the pinnacle of new site flying for me is the pioneering of sites never flown (at least that I know of). One such site I've had my sights on since summer is Mount Leona in the Colville National Forest of NE Washington (in the Kettle Mountain Range of the Okanogan Highlands). On Google Earth the summit looked fairly bare and ripe for an easy launch pick. Not so. Due to a large fire in the area 20 or so years ago one can see lots of fallen dead trees in the satellite photos. What one can't easily see is all the dead standing trees. It took us awhile to negotiate our way to the summit and to find a launch. I began to feel great anticipation of flying and I also felt a bit rushed. I set up quickly and preflighted quickly. Honestly though, my lower ribs on the U2 have not been in my preflight sequence. Due to the many aluminum colored dead branches on the slope my 2 left wing undersurface ribs went unnoticed and remained on launch when I ran into the blue (they're still there). That's not everything though. I had also somehow gotten my zipper up line around the foot of my Tracer. After launching I couldn't zip up and couldn't figure out why. And, while trying to zip up I entered into a left turn. That repeated itself about 3 times - and then some later on. So, I now had 2 things on my mind: why won't my harness zip up and why do I have a left turn in my U2. I wore long underwear so the not being zipped up part wasn't that much of a deal but not knowing why I had a wee bit more than a slight left turn had me perplexed. I looked over the wings a bit but not at the underside ribs. Being somewhat of an undaunted person I tried to make the best of the flight. I even decided that nothing was all that wrong and that I could test out my drogue/drag chute for my 2nd time - at a LZ I'd only seen on Google Earth (I like compounding things don't I!). Well, the chute did not work as it did the first time (first time was flawless). So, my landing is quite embarrassing. I simply blew it and ended up taking out a downtube. I was expecting the chute to slow me down at least some and maybe the difference in stall between the two differently shaped wings had something to do with it. But, I really know the main factor in all of this. I just had too much on my plate for the day.....
http://paraglidingforum.com/leonardo/flight/842088


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Steve Baran � U2 160 � Chattaroy, WA - USA � USHPA# 16529 � www.centeroflift.org
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1htalp9
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #2   
Perhaps you need more payout on the drogue. It looks to be collapsing in your turbulence. The flare looked rather weak, more out than up with your arms. One thing Ryan told me that has stuck, when flaring just pretend you are signaling a touchdown. Glad you're ok, though, better a broken downtube than breaking yourself.
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ChattaroyMan
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #3   
1htalp9 wrote:
Perhaps you need more payout on the drogue. It looks to be collapsing in your turbulence. The flare looked rather weak, more out than up with your arms. One thing Ryan told me that has stuck, when flaring just pretend you are signaling a touchdown. Glad you're ok, though, better a broken downtube than breaking yourself.

You're right - it was timid. I knew the field had a very light slope and there was very little wind. With the drogue not working the last 30 seconds or so (having a better glide ratio than I expected) I was wondering just how much of a slope it was or if I was landing in a slight down wind drift. Basically I just had too much on my mind and should have focused on the landing rather than trying out the chute for the only the 2nd time. All in all it was a good learning experience for me about "focus" and limits. If I'm going to pack a lot into one day I'd better be able to handle it.

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andylongvq
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #4   
A few years ago, not long after I had gotten my Moyes Matrix Race harness, I launched from Funston for an approach and top landing practice session. But I couldn't zip up my harness... no matter how many times I fully unzipped it, removed my legs and tried to zip up again. Fortunately, I was able to simply top land, investigate, and solve the problem.

As I was putting the harness back on that day, I thought of what a huge bummer it would have been had this occurred on one of my big XC flight days. So, ever since that day at Funston I now pre-flight my harness. This includes, while the harness is on the ground on its back, fully zipping the harness up, and unzipping it.

It's amazing how often I find the opening and closing lines not quite right. Twists, bunches, etc. Full wraps even. Doing a full zipping closed then open clears all the lines and then I velcro the tabs properly. This has made for much cleaner and easier zip ups in the air after I launch.

And as far as having too much on your plate and rushing... bad, bad news. That's when you forget stuff. Like hooking in.

- Andy
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andylongvq
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #5   
Here's a bit of perspective on our approach to setting the table mentally for our day of flying... as well as leaving lots of room to make sure we haven't forgotten anything.

When we do our XC trips while flying from St. John, we typically set a goal of getting off the hill somewhere between noon and 12:30. Normally, we are camped on top of the mountain the night before.

We camp less than 100 yards from where we set up our gliders so there is maybe a 2 minute drive from camp to where we unload our gliders. So, in order to be ready to launch at noon... and we usually launch later than that... guess what time we drive our gliders over to the set up area? 10 am!

That's right... we allow ourselves TWO HOURS to take the gliders off the truck, set them up, rig our harnesses and do radio checks with our driver.

And you can't believe how well this sets the table mentally for our flight. Our whole set up and getting ready process is slooooooow, mellow, easy, quiet, serene. And we do very little (usually none) in the way of talking until we are completely done.

Even when we are really slacking, we are completely finished by 11 am. That's an hour and a half before we launch sometimes. So then we get to just sit around and watch the conditions. We will even crawl in under the pine tree in the shade and take a nap.

I hate rushing when it comes to hang gliding. And it's dangerous.

- Andy
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brian scharp
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #6   
andylongvq wrote:
I hate rushing when it comes to hang gliding. And it's dangerous.
- Andy

Ditto Ditto
Thanks for posting. It's an excellent reminder of how things can go badly when rushing and or adding new variables to your routine. Glad you were not hurt, and so a cheap lesson IMO.
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flybop
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #7   
Thanks for the post Steve. Those lower ribs are very new to me. I recently did a practice set up and forgot to pull them when I broke my XC down. Glad you are ok!

Great advice Andy.

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"He did not know he could not fly and so he did" Guy Clark,

"The Cape" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6bZ37nexSY
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ChattaroyMan
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #8   
andylongvq wrote:
........It's amazing how often I find the opening and closing lines not quite right. Twists, bunches, etc. Full wraps even. Doing a full zipping closed then open clears all the lines and then I velcro the tabs properly. This has made for much cleaner and easier zip ups in the air after I launch.

And as far as having too much on your plate and rushing... bad, bad news. That's when you forget stuff. Like hooking in.

>>>>

].......That's right... we allow ourselves TWO HOURS to take the gliders off the truck, set them up, rig our harnesses and do radio checks with our driver..........I hate rushing when it comes to hang gliding. And it's dangerous.
- Andy


Yeah - Cut Saturday way too close. I few things slowed us up that were not all mentioned in the video (fog, road, access to road, never have been there before, no launch area - the tidying up of the slope was an understatement). Being that Saturday was the last day one could get up to Leona this year (snowed yesterday) also had a bit to do with it. These are not excuses - just facts of the day that we dealt with and the outcome that precipitated from them - 'goofs' that could have easily been more serious. When I head somewhere by myself I'm usually the first one there for the same reasons you mention. I like taking my time. Saturday I did not have that situation.
One of my favorite flights of the last couple of years was when camping on top and setting up the day before in order to make a sunrise flight on the summer solstice. I had plenty of time the day before to get everything in order so really only had a preflight to do before the sun came up.

This winter I'm getting a new Tracer made for me. All I know about the previous owner of the one I have is that he was tall. It fits OK but ..... I'm sure a new one will fit better. However, I do need to develop a better routine for a harness preflight. One thing I've added that hampers my checking ability visually is the new helmet I'm wearing. I cannot see my harness as well with it on as I can with my no-chin helmet and I usually checked my harness with my helmet on. Going to have to don the Charlie after checking.

It is amazing how changing just one variable can upset an applecart. When I start tossing in gobs of variables ........ I'd best have a much better plan - or don't fly.

Thanks! thumbsup

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Jason
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #9   
your flair....dont take it back popcorn
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ChattaroyMan
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #10   
brian scharp wrote:
Thanks for posting. It's an excellent reminder of how things can go badly when rushing and or adding new variables to your routine. Glad you were not hurt, and so a cheap lesson IMO.


You're welcome. That is the only reason I posted the video. I still feel like a dolt. It'll take a well planned and executed flight before I feel back near 'normal'.

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ChattaroyMan
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #11   
flybop wrote:
Thanks for the post Steve. Those lower ribs are very new to me. I recently did a practice set up and forgot to pull them when I broke my XC down. Glad you are ok!

You're welcome. I usually put both pairs lower ribs in last and try to remember to take them out first. Due to setting up on the steep slope I did one whole wing at a time on ribs; top and bottom, etc. then went to the other wing. The dried grass was slippery enough that some of my ribs slid downhill a bit and I had to fetch them. I did the left wing last (other than the nose cone) and I just plain arse overlooked the lower 2 ribs. Since they blended in so well with the pieces of dead branches I didn't notice them on the ground (they may have slide downhill???). Neither did Bob or John (no fault to them - the ribs were just not easily seen or we would have seen them). When I preflighted the glider it had its nose up hill and I walked around the glider's perimeter. I should have picked up the keel and checked the underside ribs but did not - or at least felt for them. What I've done is developed a habit of just not checking them. I always roll them and the tip wands up in the wing tips so when I take the tip bags off I have them in hand. I've never set up before where any ribs could go unseen. I've torn down in places where things could easily get lost but not setup in such - until this time. So, I learned the value of doing a thorough preflight. There are going to be times when other cues one might use to check at glider just are not going to be present. Since I'm more keen on getting a 10+ minute sledder from a brand new site than I am at getting in 2-4 hours at a regular site I'd better shape up.

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Spark
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #12   
Thanks for sharing that. Smile
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Fletcher
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #13   
OK here's my 2 cents worth of advice.

ALL of your equiptment should be part of your PREFLIGHT.

Practice with your drogue chute SEVERAL times in a familliar LZ BEFORE you really need it.

I like to read your posts and would rather not read about about you being hurt by something as simple as a missed preflight.
Please slow down and pay attention to details so we can continue to enjoy your adventures.
Thanks
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Paraglider Collapse
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #14   
Just one of the reasons I don't use a drogue chute. Many ways they can malfunction, some of them potentially deadly. K.I.S.S.: don't use crutches - just learn to land right every time!

Oh, and yeah, pioneering sites is great fun!
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ChattaroyMan
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #15   
Spark wrote:
Thanks for sharing that. Smile

My, cough cough, pleasure ...... Steve ;-)

Fletcher wrote:
OK here's my 2 cents worth of advice.

ALL of your equiptment should be part of your PREFLIGHT.
Practice with your drogue chute SEVERAL times in a familliar LZ BEFORE you really need it.
I like to read your posts and would rather not read about about you being hurt by something as simple as a missed preflight. ...... Fletcher


Thank you Fletcher for the kind words. I may not slow down but I plan to get started a lot earlier - or just do something else. And, I've decided to practice a preflight routine when I set up my glider whilst replacing the DT and giving my wing a thorough inspection (harness too). I've also been meaning to try out our local training hill (which I've never been to - they were not used in the past when I learned in this area). I need to become solid with how best to land my U2.

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ChattaroyMan
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #16   
Paraglider Collapse wrote:
Just one of the reasons I don't use a drogue chute. Many ways they can malfunction, some of them potentially deadly. K.I.S.S.: don't use crutches - just learn to land right every time! Oh, and yeah, pioneering sites is great fun!

If I cannot get it to work well for me on a regular basis I likely will remove it or try a different chute. My intention is not to use it as an aid for landing. My intention is to use it to get out of the sky more effectively should I need to get out of the sky. To me, my error in using it Saturday was that I should have gone with what was most familiar to me rather than using it at a LZ I'd never been to. My goal is to have the drogue to use similar in intention as a 'stacked deck'. If I encounter conditions/situations where its use gives me an 'edge' I'll have it to use. In the mean time I'll now practice with it at sites I know well and where I can have plenty of altitude over the LZ to gain some decent time with it.

Yeah, pioneering is the cat's meow for me. I devote a lot of time to it - mostly before ever flying the site (Google Earth, on ground site visits, landowner/manager contacts, etc.). My Mt Leona's pioneering process progressed a bit too quickly. I'll have all winter to plan my next trip there.

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GlidingDil



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #17   
Paraglider Collapse wrote:
Just one of the reasons I don't use a drogue chute. Many ways they can malfunction, some of them potentially deadly. K.I.S.S.: don't use crutches - just learn to land right every time!

Oh, and yeah, pioneering sites is great fun!


I was using a drogue chute last weekend and was having this same issue, actually had me worried for a sec. What would you say is the best chute to use? I'm not the most experienced glider and I want to be safe.
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red
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:49 am    Post subject: Mount Leona Reply with quote #18   
Quote:
I even decided I could test out my drogue/drag chute for my 2nd time. Well, the chute did not work as it did the first time (first time was flawless). I was expecting the chute to slow me down at least some.
ChattaroyMan,

Drogue chutes can indeed slow you down, but your wing's stall speed does not change. You have to accelerate (dive) enough to stay above stall speed when the drogue chute is deployed. The drag and the dive (intentionally) combine to make your glide angle steeper, but they will not make your landing "slower." Your flare airspeed does not change. If you let the drogue slow you down below your normal flare airspeed, you will stall before landing. It would not be much different from any too-high stall when landing, except it all happens much quicker with a drogue deployed.
Quote:
This winter I'm getting a new Tracer made for me. All I know about the previous owner of the one I have is that he was tall. It fits OK but ..... I'm sure a new one will fit better.
You can easily "fix" a too-long pod with some custom Styrofoam "plates."
http://user.xmission.com/~red/#ha

See the section there called:
"for cocoons and regular soft (no backframe) pod harnesses"

Any harness, even a brand-new fitted harness, can benefit from good "comfort adjustments" to the individual body of the pilot. The "how" is easy; it's all in that link.

Mr. Green

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........Red.........................
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ChattaroyMan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #19   
Thanks for the input Red. It's been a couple years since that flight. I added 6" to the bridle length of the drogue and it has worked fine since. I also have a new Tracer that, if I don't keep porking down the great Hoiliday Season meals, fits me quite well.
I'm still out pioneering - but taking more time at it. Mr. Green
Have a great winter! Steve

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Xpanse
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #20   
Thanks for posting this video!

It is educational for me. First time I saw pioneering a site. I love the idea and adventure! Also checked your other vids on youtube - "Pothole Canyon" is my favourite!

Share your adventures with us!

Have a great and short winter!

Mikolaj
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