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AcTiOn!JaCksOn
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Location: East Coast, USA
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 Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:52 pm Post subject: |
 #41 |
| crvalley wrote: |
| aireout wrote: |
| thermalfinder wrote: |
Tree(s) should be gone but getting permission to remove them may not be easy in a national park.  |
I agree with thermalfinder. The tree should go....I don't think the NPS would give a lot of resistance to removing a dead tree based on the outcome. |
The Park has made it very clear that the Yosemite Hang Gliding Association (YHGA) is to not cut or trim any foliage, trees, etc. as part of our use permit and privilege to fly Yosemite.
CRV
Vice President / Monitor YHGA |
That's crazy. Is there anything or some kind of route you guys can take to clear out the launch site to make it safer?
I
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JohnG
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Location: slc
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject: |
#42 |
| Yeah, there is. Don't fly to the left when you launch. Paul H has it right.
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AcTiOn!JaCksOn
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:18 pm Post subject: |
#43 |
But when you don't, if taking an extra precaution for whatever might go wrong on a launch, having more than ample clearnace for obstacle doesnt seem unreasonable.
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Skyhighwoman
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Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:29 pm Post subject: |
#44 |
| Quote: |
| That's crazy. Is there anything or some kind of route you guys can take to clear out the launch site to make it safer? |
You can verve right and not left. Focus on the launch gaining whatever airspeed you can.
Plenty of yosemite videos and the launches where yes the tree is in view but not that close. I can see with a slight down or cross you would drop more than fly straight out.
You only get maybe 4 steps that is it you need to fly away. I would not want to launch in a down just because of the altitude. others may but i will draw the line. A slight cross okay but it has to be light.
Signed up for this weekend. Trust me - I will be FOCUS!! my hands are sweating right now just thinking about it
I will be taking the falcon. I have nothing to prove with the U2.
Dan have a speedy recovery I will be thinking about you especially this weekend
A bit of a road to recovery my friend but you will get through it. Don't forget you have your sky brothers and sisters supporting you!!
here is one that i did from last year. double launch with the funston boys setting up for a connect. much like they do at funston. this time they did it in yosemite. which there is video just not sure if it got posted. it was shown at the norcal film festival. Somewhat sketchy launch from the lower guy but he got off.
last year 11.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3RhSYwUVos
this one is from 09 witht the sylmar crw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mwxPdND7fE
Happy flying is safe flying!
Carm
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Jason
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:20 pm Post subject: |
#45 |
The launch is SAFE
Is it intimidating.......yes.......should it be approached with respect......yes..........is it remarkably dangerous........absolutely not
Its a YOSEMITE for fucks sake.......its a god damn miracle we get to fly there at all,
There are only 2 ways to see yosemite valley from the air........in a hangglider, or in an emergency aircraft (medivac/firebomber)
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thermalfinder
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:43 pm Post subject: |
#46 |
| Jason wrote: |
The launch is SAFE
Is it intimidating.......yes.......should it be approached with respect......yes..........is it remarkably dangerous........absolutely not
Its a YOSEMITE for fucks sake.......its a god damn miracle we get to fly there at all,
There are only 2 ways to see yosemite valley from the air........in a hangglider, or in an emergency aircraft (medivac/firebomber) |
Well said. I would launch Glacier Point but probably only with local input and light straight breeze. BTW I am NOT suggesting the trees be removed. Given a tough choice I would rather see the launch closed than park foliage removed.
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Scott
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:49 pm Post subject: |
#47 |
Folks....if we want to continue to have the chance to fly in Yosemite... ALL talk of taking out a tree MUST STOP! I live in the tourist trap outside Yosemite. There are folks who want all cars out,all pavement out,tennis shoes on all hikers to reduce erosion,limits on how many can visit Yosemite and yes....no joking,bring a can if you are backpacking and carry out you s***...don't burry it,carry your s*** in a can........If the wrong person ever gets wind of the concept that the launch isn't safe....guess what...we LOSE!..That's all the excuse needed to kick us out....well their launch isn't safe,I saw them say it themselves on a forum....and NO-THEY WILL NOT ALLOW CUTTING TREES-EVEN DEAD ONES-IT"S YOSEMITE!...GET A CLUE!....think of the most whack job tree hugger vegan,better a man die than a fly swatted neo-hippy new-age flake,multiply the crazy by 10,add a well funded pack of laywers and that's almost the full picture of what's up here.Some have asked that no aircraft be allowed to fly over Yosemite because a contrail-that many ecconuts think is a chemtrail conspiracy-destroys their wilderness experience.The other nuts up here are the young earth,it's only 6k years old and all science and technology threaten my beliefs crowd with a litter of home schooled kids.Reason and logic don't work on either group.
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relate2
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Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 3391
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: |
#48 |
| Scott wrote: |
| Folks....if we want to continue to have the chance to fly in Yosemite... ALL talk of taking out a tree MUST STOP! I live in the tourist trap outside Yosemite. There are folks who want all cars out,all pavement out,tennis shoes on all hikers to reduce erosion,limits on how many can visit Yosemite and yes....no joking,bring a can if you are backpacking and carry out you s***...don't burry it,carry your s*** in a can........If the wrong person ever gets wind of the concept that the launch isn't safe....guess what...we LOSE!..That's all the excuse needed to kick us out....well their launch isn't safe,I saw them say it themselves on a forum....and NO-THEY WILL NOT ALLOW CUTTING TREES-EVEN DEAD ONES-IT"S YOSEMITE!...GET A CLUE!....think of the most whack job tree hugger vegan,better a man die than a fly swatted neo-hippy new-age flake,multiply the crazy by 10,add a well funded pack of laywers and that's almost the full picture of what's up here.Some have asked that no aircraft be allowed to fly over Yosemite because a contrail-that many ecconuts think is a chemtrail conspiracy-destroys their wilderness experience.The other nuts up here are the young earth,it's only 6k years old and all science and technology threaten my beliefs crowd with a litter of home schooled kids.Reason and logic don't work on either group. |
You know this is a really sad comment on our modern society. When zealots (whichever brand) take charge of the asylum we are ALL in trouble.
The tree huggers think they are safe until the next group, the "Too much oxygen being released by the trees" group gets in power.
Talk about the pendulum swinging too far one way.
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GerryP
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:41 pm Post subject: |
#49 |
The launch is very safe. I think in 30 years there has never been a fatality. The tree is not at all an issue - it's not in the launch path. Nothing needs to be done, other than to make sure to follow the rules set by the Park and YHGA (see www.yhga.org). In my opinion, what would shut the site down is a pilot not follow the rules (landing in the wrong field, flying aero, flying beyond the time window, cutting brush/trees, etc... ). We are really lucky to have it as a site.
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Mavi Gogun
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:24 pm Post subject: |
#50 |
| relate2 wrote: |
The tree huggers think they are safe until the next group, the "Too much oxygen being released by the trees" group gets in power.
Talk about the pendulum swinging too far one way. |
Do you blame the pendulum for swinging- or the hand that pushed? There are ridged preservation players because those seeking small (and large) concession are legion. Death of a thousand cuts.
If you haven't seen a tree over 100 meters tall and older than any modern nation-state, you might still find one in California, in a few places- far fewer than when I was boy walking the forest, that's for sure. If "Tree huggers" are on one end an imagined spectrum that features consumption with only short term consideration on the other (I think not- but let us go with your premise), then there is surely room for something in the middle labelled "thoughtful consumer" without any pejorative reference.
To see an example of what an egregious lack of control looks like, come visit me in Turkey: improved access to launch opens the way to all sorts. If I was despot, there would be corporal punishment for those who didn't carry their crap out in a can: the Turks wipe there ass with disposable moist towelettes, and believe enthusiastically in disposing of most everything at the moment it has ceased to serve them. Each picnicker leaves a debris field in wake. Bathers at the beach languish amongst piles of trash and bathe in a see of waste. I leave my flying sites with bags and bags of trash I didn't generate, and squander time on launch clearing broken glass, fire pits, and all other what not.
With swelling billions, is it any wonder that rules are made to account for the thoughtless majority? Perhaps we should qualify the limitations placed on use with certifications- you know, training so that the liberties of the responsible aren't limited by the failings of the careless. A cost for everything- such a system wouldn't come free; then again- what really does?
Draconian restrictions at Yosemite? Yes, please and thank you.
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relate2
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:05 pm Post subject: |
#51 |
All I ask in all of this is balance not Draconian restrictions.
Oh whats the use the asylum has long been taken over, I will have to leave it to the next generation to claw some sense back into the debate.
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jjcote
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:11 am Post subject: |
#52 |
The tree huggers haven't stopped pilots from making improvements to launch sites everywhere, just Yosemite (and a few other places). It's like, perhaps it would be unreasonable for religious fundamentalists to insist that nobody curse, but if you want to visit their church to see the spectacular architecture, you have to have some respect and watch your language while you're in there. Yosemite is publicly owned, but it has put in the care of an agency that is tasked with taking special care of it. If the trees and the pilots can coexist, that's fine. If they can't, it's the pilots who have to go. I'm not sure, but maybe a parallel would be if you were allowed to fly from Ayer's Rock, and then you wanted to add a ramp or something.
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relate2
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:28 am Post subject: |
#53 |
Just to be clear so people don't think I am at the opposite side of the pendulum. I believe the environment needs to be protected from wanten destruction.
What I am against is the tree huggers "wanting tennis shoes on all hikers to reduce erosion,limits on how many can visit Yosemite and yes....no joking,bring a can if you are backpacking and carry out you s***...don't burry it,carry your s*** in a can"
All I would like to see is balance. Mother nature is a remarkable healer and is not as fragile as most believe.
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Busto
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Location: Diego Garcia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:01 am Post subject: |
#54 |
It's a bad tooth on the side of the hill.
If they dropped it, the park would go on as if nothing happened.
It's politics that makes that worthless tree, worth something...not any substantial facts.
Unless it"s the home for some creature that would parish from the trees removal; I'd like to see it go, so something like this never happens again.
To suggest it to the park authority every now and then is worth the effort. I know I'll at least start on searching an answer to the importance of the dead tree, and why it can not be taken down.
There are countless trees that are cut down and lying on the side of the road as you drive to the top, and they are alive. Is the dead tree monumental? Or is it just a dead tree in the way.
With that said; take the time and watch other videos of pilots launching glacier. Plenty are in minor stalls, and are only a few feet above the same tree Dan hit. Many have been fortunate that it wasn't them in the tourist video.
I'm sure...for a while, that the video will have many pilots being more aware of that dead, worthless, good for nothing tree, but bad habits will eventually creep back into the mist of things.
Chances are that the tree will never be removed, but I'm gonna find out from some authority up there as to why; or should I say... why not.
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Mavi Gogun
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:20 am Post subject: |
#55 |
| relate2 wrote: |
| What I am against is the tree huggers "wanting tennis shoes on all hikers to reduce erosion,limits on how many can visit Yosemite and yes....no joking,bring a can if you are backpacking and carry out you s***...don't burry it,carry your s*** in a can" |
Limiting the number of visitors is a radical prospect? Some perspective: the park is visited by about 3.7 million people a year (a bit over 1% of the US population) and the 18 sq km of Yosemite Valley is the place most of them visit. With no accurate survey of the number of people who choose to poop in the woods, the absurd image of a pile of crap every 4.86 sq meters is an apt, though fantastic, illustration of the scale of impact. That's about 10,137 piles of crap per day. Theaters have occupancy ratings, as do elevators, and -yes- parks.
Have you ever seen what a park looks like when everybody makes their own trail? How 'bout 3.7 million people? Erosion is a huge foe. People don't want to stay on trails- it's nature after all, and they came to get away from roads and such. So, how do you get a handle on the stampede? One way would be to remove 4X4 footwear. Is it a great idea? Is it a horrible idea? I don't know- I've never tried to manage a mess that large.
Any determination of what is reasonable requires a bit more consideration than a passing glance.
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Jason
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Location: Stapleton, Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:31 am Post subject: |
#56 |
1- the tree is Alive.
2-its not going anywhere, if you think its a hazard....work on your launch skills, you are supposed to be a pilot. The launch is perfectly safe......one guy blowing a launch doesn't make the launch unsafe
3- there is rational in some places for carrying your crap out, anywhere without topsoil it is good practice...Whitney for example
4-there are already limits on how many people can go where in yosemite (try getting a permit for half dome)
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Busto
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Location: Diego Garcia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:10 am Post subject: |
#57 |
It's alive!
Maybe lighting will strike it, but until then...back to working on better launch habits.
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CRV
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Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 961
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:37 am Post subject: |
#58 |
| GerryP wrote: |
The launch is very safe. I think in 30 years there has never been a fatality. The tree is not at all an issue - it's not in the launch path. Nothing needs to be done, other than to make sure to follow the rules set by the Park and YHGA (see www.yhga.org). In my opinion, what would shut the site down is a pilot not follow the rules (landing in the wrong field, flying aero, flying beyond the time window, cutting brush/trees, etc... ). We are really lucky to have it as a site.
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All,
Keep reading the well-stated post above, over and over again, especially the last statement, "We are lucky to have it as a site."
If you feel it is your duty to contact Park authorities directly and request a tree be removed, or discuss the safety aspect of our sport, contact YHGA first and learn about the delicate relationship we have with the Park.
The overly-emotional response to the tree(s) that Dan hit needs to subside.
C R Valley
Vice President
Yosemite Hang Gliding Association
650-740-2690
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Alex
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Posts: 261
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:53 am Post subject: |
#59 |
| knumbknuts wrote: |
I have the bad habit of launching with my nose too high, then jackrabbit it. Fortunately, I have also had the habit of pulling in hard thereafter.
But, I am working on changing my technique to be more nose down, step step jog jog run run.
Marshall/Crestline will spoil you. |
Run like your life depends on it, because it does.
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DBrose
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:19 am Post subject: |
#60 |
I don't think he blew launch... He launched, he flew, he hit tree due to a weak launch.. Some training hill flights are shorter.. Maybe off a 3 ft dune..
Just saying..
Weak launch causes impact with tree 
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