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krizz9
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Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 105
Location: Atlanta, GA
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 Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:59 pm Post subject: Equipment, What is good? What to avoid? |
 #1 |
I'm in the market for a vario and parachute. Couple questions:
1. The Vario- I notice that the older, bulkier looking Flytec models beginning with 4 tend to be half the price of the new models beginning with 6. What's the difference?
2. Parachute - There are some cheap ones on ebay currently, but I don't know if they are any good. The ones I have my eye on are these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/360456829428?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_1537wt_1393
I'd appreciate any advice. Thanks! 
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AIRTHUG
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Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 6160
Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:27 pm Post subject: |
#2 |
4000 series varios are just older than the (current) 6000 series ones. A little bulkier, and not quite as sensetive... but a new pilot wouldn't notice the difference- it's very subtle.
Parachutes on Ebay.... NO. Just no.
Talk to your instructor about gear etc... don't trust your life to mouse-pad-pilots 
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red
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Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 2773
Location: Utah, USA . . . . . . . . . . . . . Sol III
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Equipment, What is good? What to avoid? |
#3 |
| krizz9 wrote: |
I'm in the market for a vario and parachute. Couple questions:
2. Parachute - There are some cheap ones on ebay currently,
but I don't know if they are any good. I'd appreciate any advice. Thanks! |
Chris,
That eBay parachute has the throwing handle at the wrong end of the deployment bag.
. . .  . . . . . . . . . . . .
Give it a good hard toss, and the empty bag might go 10~20 yards (meters), but you might be wearing
the parachute over your head like a shroud. Very bad way to go, man.
If the handle was at the right end (the "open" end), then no possible toss could have the bag come off
the parachute prematurely. Some may tell you that this is a "two-handed" deployment type of parachute,
but do not fall (oops . . . ) for that one. 
You want a "one-handed" deployment parachute.
Never buy a parachute (or any flyin' gear) without competent experts to inspect the stuff, to be sure
it is the right stuff for you, good and safe. What you do not know can be hazardous to your health.
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Cheers,
........Red.........................
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum |
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Phoenix
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Joined: 21 Dec 2010
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Location: USA Reg 5
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blindrodie
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Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 3797
Location: Roeland Park, KS
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:25 pm Post subject: |
#5 |
I'm under the impression that Brad makes every reasonable attempt to sell good, safe equipment in his eBay store. I have bought sold and traded with him over the years...
He's has been in the biz for a long time...
BUT that does not mean that one does not perform "due diligence" on anything
one buys... period.
Look at High Energy Sports as well as WillsWing and now Moyes that are making the Conar Metamorfosi.
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Oakdude
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Joined: 06 Jun 2012
Posts: 159
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:24 pm Post subject: |
#6 |
| The ONLY piece of kit I bought new when starting out was Metamorphosi reserve. |
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Cav_Man_77
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Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 138
Location: Canberra, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:29 am Post subject: After seeing my mate throw his laundry |
#7 |
I totally agree.
Buy a NEW parachute....always.
Conar Metamorfosi are now back in production through Moyes.
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Manta_Dreaming
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Joined: 03 Jan 2012
Posts: 450
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:46 am Post subject: |
#8 |
Buy your chute from a shop, preferably one which has clinics to show you how to pack and throw the thing. Odds are you won't need to but why risk a Doh! moment in the sky?
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Mountains always have the right of way.
If you've never forgotten anything in your life, you don't need to do a hook-in check.
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Dan Harding
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Location: Washington State, close to the blanchard site
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:24 am Post subject: |
#9 |
All the above post are Great! Remember this, if you buy a vario second hand and it does not work , well, s*** I guess you have been had, but if you buy the chute sight unseen and it doesn't work, well you could very well be dead !
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blindrodie
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Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 3797
Location: Roeland Park, KS
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:32 am Post subject: |
#10 |
I'm sensing a little bit too much paranoia when buying used parachutes. (Yes, I too bought new but did my own repack and inspection - I'm also a re-packer) It's time to end all the mystery!
IF you buy from a reputable Dealer or an experienced pilot you would, at the very least open it up and inspect it or have it inspected even if the seller states it had a recent inspection/repack. I guess it comes down to whom you trust!
This inspection will then provide you as the PIC to learn about your parachute and how it functions and is repacked. I'm surprised that "buying a new parachute" would give one such a warm fuzzy. I'm a Dealer and I open all my chutes, even if they come from the Manufacturer.
This should be no different then when buying a used wing or harness!
Attend/organize a chute clinic in your are today!!!!!
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"Tow me up. I'll find my way down"
Kansas City Hang Glider Supplies
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red
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Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 2773
Location: Utah, USA . . . . . . . . . . . . . Sol III
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:50 am Post subject: Equipment, What is good? What to avoid? |
#11 |
| blindrodie wrote: |
I'm sensing a little bit too much paranoia when buying used parachutes. (Yes, I too bought new but did my own repack and inspection - I'm also a re-packer)
I'm surprised that "buying a new parachute" would give one such a warm fuzzy. I'm a Dealer and I open all my chutes, even if they come from the Manufacturer. |
Blindrodie,
So, what do you think about deployment bags with the handle installed at the wrong end?
I'm just asking because I have seen these bags (empty) being tossed across the gym, at parachute clinics. One guy tossed, hanging in his harness, and had his parachute draped all over himself. "Oh," he said, "the rubber bands were rotten or something." We repacked his 'chute, with new bands, and he tried it again. The empty bag went flying, again, with the parachute in a pile below the pilot.
Parachute clinics RULE ! . . .
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Cheers,
........Red.........................
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum |
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blindrodie
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Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 3797
Location: Roeland Park, KS
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:08 pm Post subject: |
#12 |
| Quote: |
| So, what do you think about deployment bags with the handle installed at the wrong end? |
You mean literally sewn on incorrectly by the manufacturer?
Remember, the deployment bag can be installed incorrectly so that the handle appears to be at the wrong end, however this only makes extracting the deployment bag from the harness more difficult.
_________________
"Tow me up. I'll find my way down"
Kansas City Hang Glider Supplies
Guggenmos E7
WW U2 145
WW F1 195
FlyTec 6015
CG 1000
Tracer Plus
Organ Donor
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Bobfly
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Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 3722
Location: San Diego, Ca.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:57 pm Post subject: |
#13 |
Who should I contact in San Diego for a repack?
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krizz9
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Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 105
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:03 pm Post subject: |
#14 |
Thanks for all the good advice. I understand the point that a parachute isn't something you want to pinch pennies on. Just trying to avoid buying a new one from LMFP, since the cheapest there is $672. Maybe Lookout has some used ones that they have checked and recertified. If not I'll just buy new and deal with it.
As for the vario, one thing I actually like about the 4000 series over the 6000 is that the old display seems larger and easier to read than the new ones.
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Phoenix
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Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 1463
Location: USA Reg 5
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:40 pm Post subject: |
#15 |
If you are a relative newb, buying a chute from the guy that will train you how to use it, and care for it is well worth a few hundred extra bucks. Buying a cheap one and THEN going to ask a third party how to use it will never get you much.
Sometimes learning to be a good customer is part of the whole customer service
deal, but being a good customer at the mortuary is not beneficial to you (to beat an already dead horse in this thread).
A good student (or customer) will always do the homework, ask good questions
and make an informed choice. Congratulations Krizz9, your doing just that!
You can never completely depend on " instructors", but a good "teacher" is worth the extra gold. If that type of person happens to sell equipment, your doing the both of yourselves a hugh favor. It keeps the best folks in buisiness.
That is how the sport of Hang Gliding works best.
Don't trust me I'm a mouse pad pilot! |
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aeroexperiments
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Joined: 01 Mar 2010
Posts: 970
Location: Willamette valley, OR
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:38 pm Post subject: |
#16 |
| blindrodie wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So, what do you think about deployment bags with the handle installed at the wrong end? |
You mean literally sewn on incorrectly by the manufacturer?
Remember, the deployment bag can be installed incorrectly so that the handle appears to be at the wrong end, however this only makes extracting the deployment bag from the harness more difficult.
|
Many older bags had the handle on the opposite end as the opening. They were trusting the closure system to keep the opening closed and the chute in the bag, even against the centrifugal force of the throw. Not always a reliable thing especially if rubber bands have aged etc. I have an old used chute that came with this kind of bag and I replaced it with a new bag from betty pfeiffer with the handle on the same side as the opening.
Steve
Last edited by aeroexperiments on Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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red
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Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 2773
Location: Utah, USA . . . . . . . . . . . . . Sol III
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:13 pm Post subject: Equipment, What is good? What to avoid? |
#17 |
| blindrodie wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So, what do you think about deployment bags with the handle installed at the wrong end? |
You mean literally sewn on incorrectly by the manufacturer?
Remember, the deployment bag can be installed incorrectly so that the handle appears to be at the wrong end, however this only makes extracting the deployment bag from the harness more difficult. |
Blindrodie,
Yep, literally. Grab the handle, pull the deployment bag out of the harness, and then swing it HARD, like your life depends on this toss. If the handle is at the closed end of the bag, the chute comes out in a mess, with the empty bag still in your hand.
If the handle is at the open end of the bag, no problem; you can swing the bag by the handle with all your strength, and still, no problem. The chute won't come out until the bag is tossed, which is exactly what is needed there.
That eBay parachute has the handle sewed on at the wrong end of the bag (the closed end).
. . . no smiley
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Cheers,
........Red.........................
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum |
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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject: |
#18 |
| Quote: |
| That eBay parachute has the handle sewed on at the wrong end of the bag (the closed end). |
No, this is not a defect. Hang gliding chutes have been made this way for a long time. The rationale for putting the handle at the closed end is that it will be less likely to get tangled with the shroud lines as they feed out of the secondary bag during the deployment. |
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red
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Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 2773
Location: Utah, USA . . . . . . . . . . . . . Sol III
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:05 pm Post subject: Equipment, What is good? What to avoid? |
#19 |
| Tom wrote: |
| Quote: |
| That eBay parachute has the handle sewed on at the wrong end of the bag (the closed end). |
No, this is not a defect. Hang gliding chutes have been made this way for a long time. The rationale for putting the handle at the closed end is that it will be less likely to get tangled with the shroud lines as they feed out of the secondary bag during the deployment. |
Tom,
If you try to throw your parachute, and it comes out in a wad before you let go of the bag, you lose.
I have seen this happen at parachute clinics. Try it.
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Cheers,
........Red.........................
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum |
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noman3
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Joined: 09 Jan 2009
Posts: 4659
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:33 pm Post subject: |
#20 |
| Tom wrote: |
| Quote: |
| That eBay parachute has the handle sewed on at the wrong end of the bag (the closed end). |
No, this is not a defect. Hang gliding chutes have been made this way for a long time. The rationale for putting the handle at the closed end is that it will be less likely to get tangled with the shroud lines as they feed out of the secondary bag during the deployment. |
red speaks the truth.I have seen these types of chutes wad up when throwing them at the clinics i have attended.
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