[spindrift]

I'm a new pilot on a new falcon 3, and was wondering if some more experienced beginners (or novice friendly experts) could help me out.

What are the speeds to fly that you use for the falcon? I've tried to track down polar data, but it's kind of lacking. What's in the ballpark for stall speed, best glide, minimum sink, etc? Of course this will depend on hook in weight and wing size, but I figure maybe I can extrapolate. I'm 170lb and fly a F3 170.

Or should I just not worry about speed and just fly the glider.

[knumbknuts]

Welcome to the sport and the forum, we look forward to reading about your learning and your addiction to this sport! mosh

here's what I use...

Fly trim most of the time. If you've got a tailwind, fly close to stall (min sink). Fly a bit faster than best glide (bar pulled in a bit) if you've got to get into a headwind a bit.

The only time you really stuff the bar is when you want to go down... cuz that's what's going to happen. ::

[gerg]

What he said... It has two speeds... "Slow" and "Down".

I'm on an F3/195 and hook in at about 215lbs give or take. It's been a while since I've flown in calm conditions, so your mileage may vary. I'm at trim at about 22/23, and try not to go over 26/28 if I'm going for best-glide (pulled in a bit). Anything near or over 30 and you're just burning energy.

Do you have an airspeed indicator? What kind? I've found it's best to calibrate your own internal "best-glide-calculator" by flying straight, and looking at the ground in the distance. Fly at a steady speed (e.g. trim), find the spot on the ground that's neither moving up in your view (where you won't make it), or moving down (where you'll fly over). This is the spot where you're gliding towards. Then pull in a little more and hold it for a few seconds and find a spot again. Is it further? not as far? what's the bar pressure like? what's the wind-noise like? (Air speed?) Lather, rinse, repeat.

Of course this is always best done in calmer air, but I find myself constantly doing it when on longer glides to calibrate my internal glide calculator... Textured air will throw it all off, and that's where knowing bar pressure and wind noise come in handy, as you can more easily adjust subconciously.

So I'd suggest... Just fly the glider, but do these little experiments as you have time, and find out what the best glides are for you, in the conditions you're in, on your glider, with your weight..

[FormerFF]

Here's Wills Wing's polar.

I fly a F3 170, and hook in at around 185 lbs. Mine trims at about 20 mph on a Hall Bros. ASI, which is probably very close to minimum sink. Best glide is only a few mph faster, probably around 23 or so. Into a breeze, I pick it up to around 25 - 28, but then a breeze around here is not all that breezy, at least not in the conditions I fly in. The only time I see 30 mph is on final.

[jjcote]

I've got a F2 170, and I'm about 10 pounds lighter than FFF, I suppose. No idea what my airspeed is in terms of MPH, because I've never flown with an airspeed meter. But yeah, the more you pull in on a Falcon, the faster you go. Not faster forward, just faster down. Actually, I did fly once on a day when I had been looking at the wind speed before I launched, and it was something like 23 gusting to 27. It appears that 27 was as fast as the glider would go, because in the gusts, I couldn't penetrate at all.

[spindrift]

Thanks all for the posts-
I've seen Wills Wing's polar chart on their website, but it says copyright 2005, and since the F3 came out in 06, I was assuming it probably was for the F2, and I've heard that the minor changes seem to have made some difference in efficiency. At least that's what it felt like to me after flying on my instructor's old ratty F1, and then hooking in to my brand new uncreased F3. (Sweeeet!).

Does anyone know if a real polar graph exists for the F3?

[skypimp]

I have a F-3 and I feel good boating around in good conditions with about
1 or 2 lbs. pulling in from trim, when things get a little harder I like going
faster - maybe pulled in 4 more inches from the above. I have read on this
forum "speed saves" and I like to go fast every time I feel A little out of my
comfort zone, it gives me more control.

Welcome and hope I helped .

SP

PS. Next Sunday prone class 101 at Ed Levin
Off the 600, should have it to our self, everyone will be at McClure

[knumbknuts]

[Holger]

[skypimp]

Hey KK I got a ?
you said "if flying downwind fly close to stall or min.sink"

I have only flown 3 times downwind on a DBF and it was out of my comfort zone
so I speed-ed up to feel like when I turned back in to the wind I had good speed to not stall ( the base leg is vary close to a u turn ) Iets say the wind is a little under 10 mph.

Is my speeding a good idea or not a good idea ?
thank you
SP

[fakeDecoy]

My rule of thumb for best glide is at the point where the pitch pressure will start to ramp up if you pull in any more. Your instruments might throw you off, the right bar position will vary when you fly in lift or sink, but the bar pressure won't lie about the speed to fly.

Pull in more than that, and you lose performance. But sometimes it's necessary.

Minimum sink is on the opposite end of the low pitch pressure spectrum. You push out until just before you run into more pitch pressure on that end, and stop. And look at the wing tufts, the pieces of yarn on the wing main body. At minimum sink they'll flip sideways instead of streaming backwards. They're cool to look at in the beginning, but eventually you shouldn't have to.

Push out a tad past minimum sink, and you stall. But hell, you can still control a Falcon when it's a little stalled. You just dump your performance in the toilet, and you leave yourself more vulnerable.

[knumbknuts]

[NV-TRAILS]

I just fly my F3 170 at trim. let go... one hand on the bar to hold you straight and just let it fly. When your in a thermal its just about stalled and in a spin initiated by cross control. It will stall on occassion but the F3 is pretty forgiving with good altitude. The occasional stall dropped into a dive is a good time to throw in some tight turns and have fun with it. I dont have a speedo on my glider and just fly by feel. Starting to get over the dependence on the vario too. Use the force Luke......Feel the glider.

[CHassan]

The speed range of a Falcon is small. The difference between min sink and best glide is say 5 mph (20 - 25? just guessing). Anything over best glide and you are beginning to fly down.
The comparison between a F2 and F3 may give you a 1/4mph change in speed to fly. If you can hold 1/4mph change on a flex wing, you have reached Zen with your wing.

[rallyant]

[AIRTHUG]

[knumbknuts]

[CHassan]

Headwind and tailwind displaces the "origin" of the tangent.

[flyhg1]

http://home.att.net/~jdburch/polar.htm

Scroll down the page to see how wind affects glide performance.

[AIRTHUG]

c'mon guys... you're still talking relative to the ground...

What I was saying is that, relative to the AIRMASS you're flying through, the glider doesn't know which way is downwind. The polar does not change.