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red
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Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 2741
Location: Utah, USA . . . . . . . . . . . . . Sol III
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 Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:43 am Post subject: Wind Streamers on HGs |
 #1 |
Campers,
Anybody here for a while probably knows that I have a real pet peeve against the heavy, almost worthless wind streamers that some gliders have on the nose wires. These bad streamers can tell you lies at launch, and launch accidents may be the result. What you really want will be wind streamers that are long and light, such as light "fuzzy" knitting yarn; these streamers will pick up in any breeze. Good wind-direction information can be a great help to you on launch.
While your local rescue personnel might find your LZ, I would bet that relatively few could find your launch site, if needed.
A blown launch is nothing to laugh about.
Video pilots might see if their turns in flight or in thermals are efficient, or side-slipping, as well.
Now, I realize that some people just can't be seen going into a yarn shop, 
so I will send you five nice yarn streamers, in any Self Addressed Stamped Envelope that you choose, no charge.
Put one on each nose-wire. Keep spares in your bag of tricks. Share them with friends. 
Just send your SASE to:
Veteran Enterprises
160 Ross Drive
Clearfield, Utah USA
84015-1248
You will get five free yarn streamers, 18" (45cm) long, by return snail-mail.
Feel free to skip the mails, and make your own yarn streamers, also.
The light synthetic knitting yarns are tough stuff.
_________________
Cheers,
........Red.........................
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum |
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Bobfly
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Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 3699
Location: San Diego, Ca.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:45 am Post subject: |
#2 |
I've always wondered about this. I've seen some pretty long ribbon streamers on nose wires and wondered if the drag affected flight or even if they were just a distraction. I know it's a good idea to have something there as a tell tale. Thanks, Red.
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Freedom 170 FR |
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red
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Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 2741
Location: Utah, USA . . . . . . . . . . . . . Sol III
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:33 pm Post subject: Wind Streamers on HGs |
#3 |
| Bobfly wrote: |
| I've always wondered about this. I've seen some pretty long ribbon streamers on nose wires and wondered if the drag affected flight or even if they were just a distraction. I know it's a good idea to have something there as a tell tale. Thanks, Red. |
Bob,
Anything between a foot or two in length is fine, as long as the material is light enough and "fuzzy" enough. Some people use a longer length, because their material is too stiff, or too heavy, so it takes a long one to show a light breeze correctly on launch. Ribbon is a rather poor choice, but any help is better than no help, there. I'd be happy to send you the right stuff. Try it out, and see what you think. There won't be any appreciable drag with yarn.
_________________
Cheers,
........Red.........................
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum |
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Andrew
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Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 73
Location: BC
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:03 pm Post subject: |
#4 |
I used to use a streamer on my nose wire, many years ago.
I stopped using it to tell me what the wind was doing, it only tells you what the wind is doing at the nose wire. Sometimes, depending on the launch site, the wind can be doing different things at the nose and 15 -20 feet to either side of the glider.
I rather use markers in front of me and to either side of me at launch. I also like to feel what my glider is telling me.
It is great, though, for pointing out a slipping turn. |
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red
3 thumbs up
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 2741
Location: Utah, USA . . . . . . . . . . . . . Sol III
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:07 am Post subject: Wind Streamers on HGs |
#5 |
| Andrew wrote: |
I used to use a streamer on my nose wire, many years ago.
I stopped using it to tell me what the wind was doing, it only tells you what the wind is doing at the nose wire. Sometimes, depending on the launch site, the wind can be doing different things at the nose and 15 -20 feet to either side of the glider.
I rather use markers in front of me and to either side of me at launch. I also like to feel what my glider is telling me.
It is great, though, for pointing out a slipping turn. |
Andrew,
There is absolutely nothing wrong with streamers to tell you what is happening to each side of you, and farther out in front of you.
I recommend that practice, very seriously.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with decent streamers on the nosewires, either.
Just on a guess, I'd think that you saw heavy, stiff streamers on nosewires that routinely tell big lies, and maybe even nothing, to the pilot. If you want to take a good second look, though, here's your chance.
Can't hurt, might help. I win nothing here, either way.
_________________
Cheers,
........Red.........................
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum |
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aeroexperiments
3 thumbs up
Joined: 01 Mar 2010
Posts: 968
Location: Willamette valley, OR
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Wind Streamers on HGs |
#6 |
| red wrote: |
Campers,
Anybody here for a while probably knows that I have a real pet peeve against the heavy, almost worthless wind streamers that some gliders have on the nose wires. These bad streamers can tell you lies at launch, and launch accidents may be the result. What you really want will be wind streamers that are long and light, such as light "fuzzy" knitting yarn; these streamers will pick up in any breeze. Good wind-direction information can be a great help to you on launch. |
I had some yarn streamers on my side wires, for another purpose, but while waiting for the light tailwind to lull to signal the aerotow tug to go it was handy to see how strong they were blowing out. The ones on my front wires were too high to see while proned out on the dolly. There was no lightweight wind flag close by though there were some out ahead of the tug.
Yarn streamers on the front wires aren't in a great position to teach about slips as came up in this thread, they are either too high to easily see when prone, or too far to the side (too much parallax error). Unless we film them with a camera back on the rear of the keel, that works well.
For observing flow before launch, one streamer on each front wire is better than one single streamer. One single streamer can fool you due to parallax. The same can be said of wind streamers on poles in the ground, one on each side of the launch run can be better than one single streamer off to one side of the launch run, due to parallax. To say nothing of course of the possibility that the wind might really be in different directions at those two different spots.
Steve |
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klh
3 thumbs up
Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 330
Location: San Bernardino, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:09 pm Post subject: |
#7 |
Related to this is the uselessness of long heavy streamers on low sticks or poles at launches. Someone is always putting these 2' long 2" wide strips of cloth on the bushes at our 750-foot (AGL) launch. If the wind is blowing hard enough to move those streamers, you don't NEED the streamers - the wind direction is obvious.
You need light streamers on a launch like the 750 for those times when it's switchy and light/ |
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blindrodie
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Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 3762
Location: Roeland Park, KS
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:23 pm Post subject: |
#8 |
On our north launch we use a two element streamer on one stick. Both streamers are the same light weight material. One streamer is the "control" streamer and the other is weighted on its end.
As the stronger cycles come through the weighted streamer raises up to meet the other control streamer. We typically wait til the weighted streamer drops to show a lull and then we jump!
Good on Red. I would be taking him up on his offer if my Mom didn't supply me with some nice wool threads that work well.
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mrcc
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Joined: 19 Jul 2010
Posts: 467
Location: Auckland
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:09 pm Post subject: |
#9 |
I use a bit of knitting wool on one nose wire, only to give some idea what the slip stream is doing in flight. Also adjust my instruments & harness to a similar angle.
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remmoore
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1311
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:27 pm Post subject: |
#10 |
My ATOS VX actually came with a piece of yarn sewn onto the undesurface of the nosecone. It's about 6" long and sewn into the joint. I guess A.I.R. figured that with no nosewires, the nosecone was going to be the next best place to have such an indicator.
It doesn't work perfectly, but it's better than nothing.
RM |
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Cloudhopper
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Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 430
Location: Belmont, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:43 pm Post subject: |
#11 |
| I find in curious that we find any value in nose wire tell-tales. I haven't used any such streamers in the last 36 years (since I stopped flying a standard). For me, it's all about the balance of the wing and what the air is doing in front of me, as I start my launch run, and for that, I rely in streamers and grass movement. Do you all really feel a streamer on the wire is helpful? |
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blindrodie
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Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 3762
Location: Roeland Park, KS
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:06 pm Post subject: |
#12 |
I just like to stand there on launch and stare at it a lot...act like I'm gunna go and then put the control bar down. I do that a few times then reach up and move it up or down.
Then some PG guy yells "Push please!" and I jump real qwik like...no really.
_________________
"Tow me up. I'll find my way down"
Kansas City Hang Glider Supplies
Guggenmos E7
WW U2 145
WW F1 195
FlyTec 6015
CG 1000
Tracer Plus
Organ Donor
Torrey Hawk #212 |
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remmoore
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1311
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:31 pm Post subject: |
#13 |
| Cloudhopper wrote: |
| I find in curious that we find any value in nose wire tell-tales. I haven't used any such streamers in the last 36 years (since I stopped flying a standard). For me, it's all about the balance of the wing and what the air is doing in front of me, as I start my launch run, and for that, I rely in streamers and grass movement. Do you all really feel a streamer on the wire is helpful? |
It really depends on the launch. At many sites and during plenty of conditions, I don't bother looking at it. At the Diablo Tower launch, where conditions are very twitchy, I pay close attention to all streamers - the turbulating air flow tells a story that has my full focus.
RM |
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Mavi Gogun
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 973
Location: Istanbul (not Constantinople)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:12 am Post subject: Re: Wind Streamers on HGs |
#14 |
On a related note, the Wills U2 manual is a great read for using tell-tales for locating min-sink, and other speeds.
Any advice on selecting tape for attaching string to the sail? I prefer something that won't permanently mar the sail after the sun bakes it... |
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red
3 thumbs up
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 2741
Location: Utah, USA . . . . . . . . . . . . . Sol III
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Wind Streamers on HGs |
#15 |
| Mavi Gogun wrote: |
On a related note, the Wills U2 manual is a great read for using tell-tales for locating min-sink, and other speeds.
Any advice on selecting tape for attaching string to the sail? I prefer something that won't permanently mar the sail after the sun bakes it... |
Mavi,
Use a common sewing needle to pull "carpet-sewing thread" or "upholstery thread" up through the sail, and then down again, close by.
Tie off any streamers to both ends of that single thread.
These types of thread can be UV-proof, and they are incredibly strong. You can't break these threads with bare hands,
your skin would be cut first. You will make only two tiny holes in the sailcloth, less than the sail-stitching has.
Pull out the thread later, work the sailcloth between your hands, and even these tiny holes will vanish.
These threads come in white, and many colors.
_________________
Cheers,
........Red.........................
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum |
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