[danmoser]

Is the concept of "skyfloating" with a suprone harness still alive?
Collin Lark's idea was very appealing and seemed to be gaining momentum in the late 90's. ... read up on the Off-Piste Discovery:

http://www.drageflyvning.dk/tests/Off-Piste%20-%20Discovery.pdf

I also found this obscure "Skyfloating Manual" document published by Wills Wing in '96 describing how to fly a Falcon with a modified PG harness... a notion they don't seem to promote nowadays:

http://www.willswing.com/pdf/skyfloat.pdf

This seemingly more comfortable variation of a hang gliding harness is rare, from what I can tell.

This seems mostly applicable to single surface, novice-type gliders.. Falcon, Fun, Malibu, Target, Dream, EZY, etc. .. but perhaps it can also be adapted to easy-to-fly intermediates as well. Any opinions on that ???

I think a lot of HG pilots switch to PGs primarily because of harness comfort issues.. especially us "gray eagles" with creaky joints.
But I don't want to switch to flying a bag without exploring this option thoroughly.

Apparently, a special spreader bar can be used with a PG harness to allow it to be used on a flexwing.
Finsterwalder sells one.. and Wills used to, and perhaps still does. Anybody know ?
I think it allows semi-prone upright position for launch and landing with an above-the-bar supine cruising position without changing the prone control bar rigging... do I have that right ??
Has this notion of "skyfloating" faded away?.. and if so, why?

I'm interested to hear of skyfloating pilots' experiences and recommendations.

Happy landings,

Dan
(Reposted from "Suprone Harness Revisited" thread)

[seabird]

Hi Dan
I have gone the opposite direction (PG to HG) although I still PG as well. I don't believe the seated position is significantly more comfortable than prone even with neck troubles. I believe PG is just a lot more convenient than HG and a better craft for getting up on scratchy days. I started HG again because I don't want to solely fly the lowest performing flying machines. PG certainly does complement HG flying though.

[danmoser]

[flyingdawg]

I was a long time HG pilot who added PGs to my aresenal of wings. I did what I never thought I would do--I stopped flying HGs for awhile. The convenience was great, they are lots of fun, I even flew them in some really, really big air without them turning into death machines, and was really not being tense on my landing approaches as I have always been on my HG. In fact, for me the primary reason I would choose to fly a PG is because of the ease of landing. But with that said, I now primarily fly my HG again and I'll hit 60 on my next birthday. I tried a suprone harness in the 1980s and did not like the feel of it because I didn't feel I had the authority in role that I do in the prone position. Maybe I could have gotten used to it but I think it is a compromised flight position. So my opinion is that flying seated is not going to keep aging HG pilots away from PGs. Those incredibly slow approach and landing speeds are awfully nice for the old and not so old. Landing gear with wheels, however, might be another story IF you don't have issues with your neck as seems to be the premise of this thread.

[Bobfly]

Dan, are you familiar with this thread? Suneagle seems to have perfected flying with a pg harness in a hang glider.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?p=276751


Link

[danmoser]

[bobknop]

Hi,
When i started hg i tried prone,hanging from a ceiling,and decide it was not for me.
So i allways flew supine (legs under bottembar.).With my perfex which came
with a smaller A frame and a kortel kruier Pg harnas .All standard equipment,
straight from the shelf at no extra cost.
I am getting a double surface funfex,just so i can fly my doodlebug the same way.
My setup is great for me,i am always the underdog,but fly usually a lot longer
flights,no pain.
My wing weighs 23 kg My harnas only 1.5 kg(mountain pg) and a reserve of which i dont know the weight.Since i am 54 years old i like it a lot.
To see me fly the dutch coast, see youtube(cant post a link)

Hanggliding supine,Bob zittend soaren langs zoutelande.4 uur 4 min

Regards Bob.

[CAL]

i face the same issues Dan, well getting older anyway, it is getting harder for me to work out and keep myself in good shape, but if i want to continue to enjoy life and this sport, i just need to work harder at it than the young ones do and be more determined to get up and lift weights and keep myself aerobically fit

instead of trying to adjust my equipment to fit my health issues, i try to adjust my health so it can fit my equipment.

Now i understand how difficult this is at our age, but if we want to stop from losing older pilots we must drill this into our minds,

we need strong legs for stong launches, we need strong backs for glider lifting,

i believe you can go to a physical therapist, let them know what you need to do and they can get you in shape to fit you needs

i do not want to lose you Dan please consider this option

Ken Musico is 70 and still flies prone in his topless SO CAN YOU AND I !


LETS KEEP UP DAN WE CAN DO IT

[brian scharp]

Hi Dan,

We are on the same path. I have purchased a used skyfloater type pg harness that was used for supine. I will shorten the mains to fly suprone. I'll try it out on a single surface first to experiment with my comfort level with roll control. If all goes well, I'll progress to higher performance wings. The harness is an old SUP'AIR pg with a spreader bar. I like the idea of using my feet on the base bar and hands on the downtubes, or rear flying wires to thermal. If I'm satisfied with roll control hands only, I'll progress to a pod style harness.
I'm hoping suprone works for me because ,
1 It is a more relaxed position.
2 Take off and landing is the same as prone.I intend to lean forward trough
the mains for landings.
3 No need to rerigg flying wires.( may need a D tube on the downtube, or
something on the rear flying wires.)

Brian

[danmoser]

[danmoser]

[Roadrunner]

As to switching, the idea of switching from flying Hang-gliders, to flying Para-gliders. I do noy think my Balls will ever be big enough to fly Para-gliders. I do not think that I am the only one who feels this way.

This is just my thought on the Hang-glider, Para-glider issue.

Goodby: the Big GUY

[gasdive]

I don't have a problem with prone, but I do have a problem with carrying the glider up a hill. I've asked about lightweight options for a single surface glider like the lightweight options on the race gliders but got zero interest from the manufacturers. I think there's a market there for a super lightweight glider, but none of the makers agree. I think by substituting the stainless fittings with titanium and the alloy with carbon and going for a low stress sail with light sailcloth you could come close to cutting weight in half. Sure it would cost twice as much but there's a lot of old glider pilots out there, certainly as a percentage.

=:)

[relate2]

What I do with my Moyes contour harness is I just bend my knees and I rock up. Not fully as I am still zipped up in my harness but definitely enough to relieve any stress on my neck.

You can see me doing it it most of my videos. I may eventually go to a suprone or supine harness but at the moment everything is working fine for me.

[danmoser]

[Mavi Gogun]

[Paul H]

[CAL]

[Dontsink]

[Suneagle]

I've now had three flights in three days in my new Airborne Rev flying in supine with a fixed height. I scrapped the drop down harness system as it was unnecessary.

I hope to make a video tomorrow when I go flying again.

It's winter here, so staying up is not so easy.

My Rev flies superb in supine. Launch is easy and landing is equal to prone. I took off in nil wind today; mountain launch.

Turn co-ordination is perfect and it is much easier to fly than my Malibu which was damn easy anyway... but perhaps that is simply my joy at flying a hot ship with the greatest of ease.

So comfortable.

There are no mods to the glider other than bar extensions that I velcro on. Yes velcro. I've done my own VG cleat so I can pull it on or release it while sitting back and relaxing. It works great.

Wheels are there (to take the stress out of landings) but their greatest use is walking the glider to the pack up point. My speed bar is round and rotated 90 degrees to allow clearance for my legs. I'm at the top of the weight range with a heavy but well padded PG race harness, 3kg of water, and a full set of instruments including VHF and UHF radios.

My next project is to tidy up my harness. At the moment it is over-engineered. Much stronger than it needs to be. BTW, I'm using a short section of aerofoil upright for my spreader bar.

Today I flew with a dozen PG's - of which half sank out. I managed to stay with those who kept up in the weak and broken winter lift.

After the Malibu, I'm loving the flat glide. If I was in my prone harness, I assure you that I wouldn't be flying for 4 days straight - with no aches and pains. Supine makes it all possible and as much as I loved flying PG, this supine in a HG is way more fun to fly. The only thing I miss about PG is the convenience.

Jerry