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ChattaroyMan
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Location: Chattaroy, WA -USA
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 Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject: |
 #21 |
| davisstraub wrote: |
| Perhaps they think that some of their products cost too much. |
I only think they cost too much when I don't have one ;-) --- I got a 5030 used and I'm loving it - even on a Mac that doesn't (won't - on my part) run Windoze. That's one area I'd like to see Flytec bite the bullet - make FlyChart for Macs. Where I think Flytec might lose market share is for stuff we haven't seen yet - a sort of smart phone/6030 hybrid. It is only a matter of time. Battery life bites. What I'd like to see is a small prop spinning whilst we fly providing the extra power needed to charge the batteries and/or go direct to instruments. Same prop could power our GoPros too. Screw the battery charging at home/car/where-ever.
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Willmrx
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Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 1602
Location: Northern Cal
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:12 pm Post subject: |
#22 |
This was not meant to be a anti Flytec post. It was meant to be the times are changing. Sorry if It came across as a anti Flytec. I have had three Flytec vario's and have enjoyed all of them. Not to mention the A1 service the I have had from Flytec USA!
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Let me be a free man, free to travel, free to stop, free to work, free to trade where I choose, free to choose my own teachers, free to follow the religion of my fathers, free to talk, think and act for myself -- and I will obey every law or submit to the penalty.---- Chief Joseph, Washington, D.C. 1879 |
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Mavi Gogun
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Location: Istanbul (not Constantinople)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:09 pm Post subject: |
#23 |
| davisstraub wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Unless Flytec/Braüniger adapt to the times, they will be relegated to history. |
First they are one company, so no they. |
Ergo the "slash", not "and". You seem preoccupied with demonstrating unique insight. The company's duel name is no secret. "They" is used to refer to a group. "Go to the Walmart pharmacy- they will have the lithium you're looking for."
| davisstraub wrote: |
| Second, they are already well ahead of the game and have already adapted. You are just not aware of it yet. That is why I mention ignorance. |
This was said to hint at secret inside knowledge without imparting anything. Of course, you could have said 'they [that word again] have been working in this area already, but aren't ready to market, yet. I can't really say more'- but then, the purpose would have been different- less self-aggrandizing, more informative. Ignorance isn't pejorative, unto itself- one has to contrive to make it so, and you worked at it.
| davisstraub wrote: |
| Perhaps Mavi you didn't read the subject line. |
It seems you didn't understand my response to it: I don't think this chip introduces any game changing technology, and illustrated that with examples. Some devices would not adapt well. Others are better suited. The Kindle Touch is Java and HTML5 based, and is a breeze to jailbreak. That's just an example- certainly not an ideal appliance for our purposes, and may function too slow- but is extremely inexpensive. Surely we will see more applicable, better suited appliances. So, go ahead and decry today's screen readability and battery life, and suggest that my observation of tech implication are naive or unconsidered- that may add to your view of self, but to the topic at hand, not at all. I think the direction of development will be towards the use of non-dedicated computers employing flying peripherals. The limitations of the current offerings change that not at all.
| davisstraub wrote: |
| We are all quite aware of this and have been for a long time. |
Ah... the exclusive "we". So what? Shall I post the same to your comment about the need for speed over on the wind gradient thread? Relax. You don't have to prove yourself. Those youngsters are going to discover Pink Floyd long after you wore out your vinyl gramophone record, too...
| Willmrx wrote: |
| This was not meant to be a anti Flytec post. It was meant to be the times are changing. Sorry if It came across as a anti Flytec. |
It didn't come across as anti-anything to me; claims to the contrary amount to much ado about nothing. |
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Sky_Walker
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Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 763
Location: Trenton, Ga
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:34 am Post subject: |
#24 |
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Jaime Perry
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davisstraub
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Posts: 1713
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:50 am Post subject: |
#25 |
I am under embargo and not allowed to post all about what I know about these issues.
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Residenthooligan
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Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 40
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject: |
#26 |
High end competition level instruments aren't going away any time soon, but there has been a dearth of affordable options for serious recreational flying.
This is the need that handsets/PNAs address and also what we at Flyte Park have been trying to address with our audio varios.
Handsets/PNAs are only going to get better in terms of readability and battery life . I see this emerging class of devices putting a strain on the high end instruments market. Maybe not from the competition level pilots, but definitely from recreational pilots who want something that works and don't want to spend a fortune.
Brian
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Flyte Park
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old newbie
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Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 811
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:07 pm Post subject: |
#27 |
Wait was that an ad? Looks fussy from the direction.
Oh this is an endorsement from me not an ad. My Flytec Sonic works great, has an option to turn off the sink alarm and comes preset from the factory just right, took me on a 100 miler once and plenty durable. I really like to support Steve Kroop as he gives much back.
Steve Forslund |
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Residenthooligan
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Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 40
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject: |
#28 |
Steve,
It was not intended to be. This discussion is near and dear to my heart since I run a flight instruments company. It's going to be interesting to see how industry stalwarts like Flytec react to the changing landscape. They already have a great reputation so adding some additional offerings like software and cloud services would be a brilliant strategic move in my opinion.
To your point about not having to fuss with stuff, I completely agree. It is the worst when you buy something and have to hunker down with the manual in order to use it. If your customers have to read the manual in order to use your product, you have failed.
With regard to configuration, some people want to disable the sink alarm, and some want more configuration. Can't please everyone  To this end, we're working on an enhanced version of the Microvario that is fully configurable, basically the instrument that my pilot buddies and I always wanted but couldn't buy.
Brian
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Flyte Park
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davisstraub
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Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject: |
#29 |
At the goal today I pulled out my Samsung Galaxy to SMS my coordinates. I couldn't see the screen with my sun glasses on. I could barely see the screen with my clear computer glasses on. I had to get out of the sun and under the glider in the shade to be able to touch the application ("Here I am") at all.
No plastic cover over the screen.
Get back to me when you can compare apples to apples, and not apples that require a $1200 data plan.
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Residenthooligan
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Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: |
#30 |
| davisstraub wrote: |
At the goal today I pulled out my Samsung Galaxy to SMS my coordinates. I couldn't see the screen with my sun glasses on. I could barely see the screen with my clear computer glasses on. I had to get out of the sun and under the glider in the shade to be able to touch the application ("Here I am") at all.
No plastic cover over the screen.
Get back to me when you can compare apples to apples, and not apples that require a $1200 data plan. |
Davis,
Have you tried disabling "auto" in the control panel and manually turning the brightness of the screen up all the way? I've found that the auto detect brightness option doesn't really work so well on my Galaxy Nexus, by turning up the screen all the way it's readable enough.
You've actually got me really curious now. I am going to take a picture in direct sunlight comparing a few different phones vs my Flytec 4010.
The data plan is kind of a moot point, someone probably isn't going to buy a smart phone instead of buying a flight instrument, but if they already have a phone they may not buy a flight instrument.
Brian
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davisstraub
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Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:15 pm Post subject: |
#31 |
It is set to always being the brightest (which is why the battery doesn't last very long).
Of course, re the data plan (I have a very restricted data plan at 200 mb/month at $16). The point being that we should at least compare real costs against real costs.
Wait, it wasn't set to automatic or brightest (that was my last phone). I'll check it out at the brightest setting.
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davisstraub
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Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:16 pm Post subject: |
#32 |
Screen timeout? Mine has been set to 10 minutes (the longest). I don't want my screen timeout when flying.
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jjcote
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject: |
#33 |
| davisstraub wrote: |
| Of course, re the data plan (I have a very restricted data plan at 200 mb/month at $16). The point being that we should at least compare real costs against real costs. |
I may be working with a misconception here, but I'm imagining a vario phone app that doesn't require network connectivity to operate, just using the GPS and maybe other sensors in the phone (and possibly optional Bluetooth pressure sensor, ASI, etc.). So the data plan to use a phone app vario wouldn't be any greater than what somebody is already paying. And I certainly know pilots who already use their phones in relation to flying, as a GPS for driving, or to get weather updates.
Screen readability in sunlight is an issue that will probably get solved for other consumer demand reasons before too long. There are a lot of people who want to use their phones outdoors.
External supplemental battery should be straightforward.
(I will note that I don't own a smartphone. I also can't even see the dashboard instruments of my car in the daytime, because they're red and I'm colorblind.)
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Mavi Gogun
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Location: Istanbul (not Constantinople)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
#34 |
| davisstraub wrote: |
| Get back to me when you can compare apples to apples, and not apples that require a $1200 data plan. |
Is that what you are doing Davis? -comparing apples to apples? Is that how you produced such an exorbitant extraneous fee? Why would we 'get back to' somebody so doggedly obtuse? Whatever you pay for an unrelated service is totally irrelevant. Your home heating bill: irrelevant. Your porn subscription: irrelevant. Your prescription psychotropics: may have some bearing on this conversation.
| davisstraub wrote: |
| The point being that we should at least compare real costs against real costs. |
Yes- that is what YOU should be doing.
I wonder how long Orville and Wilbur tolerated the curmudgeons constantly interjecting "it won't fly"? Davis, do you have some new contribution? Or are you going to prattle on about insurmountable power limitations, screen visibility, and data plans? Here's a task for you: productively focus on solutions to those 2 real issues. If you're not interested, you're not interested. Of course, from what you've intimated, the folks at Flytec/Braüniger are ...but what do they know, right?
(Here's the thing Dude: I usually step up to defend you when the knives come out. Why? 'cuz you tend toward impolitic accuracy, intolerant of foolishness. Here, you've indulged in a degree of intellectual dishonesty that I find unpalatable. If you have a strong position you wanna support then don't undermine it with nonsense noise like data plan costs. Frustrated about other limitations? Combined with the nonsense, those frustrations come across as nothing more than nay-saying. Currently such devices as we discuss here may suffer from battery failure 4 hours into a flight; they may be unreadable for half a turn. Take the lead in finding solutions, follow those leading the charge to do so, or clear launch- we're trying to take off here.) |
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davisstraub
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Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:25 am Post subject: |
#35 |
Of course, you don't need a data plan to fly with a smart phone, it's just that the phone companies require that you have one when they give you a smart phone for $100 (and thereby hide the costs of the phone). Then we all forget that in fact this almost free phone costs a lot of money and then we start comparing this almost free phone to a device where all the up front costs are made manifest. Do you think that's fair?
BTW, this varies with country. Maybe Turkey has a different policy
Now as some of you know I have used the smart phone with Gaggle to do on-line tracking and of course that does require a data plan with the phone. I'll be testing this more this year. We curmudgeons, of course, have found that there are many problems with this type of tracking (having experimented extensively with it for the last decade) here in the US, while it appears to work fine in Europe.(David Glover and I first did APRS tracking with external GPSes (Garmin 12's) over ten years ago.)
I guess only curmudgeons would be dumb enough to actually investigate matters while others would just take things at face value whenever some hypster is promoting the next big thing.
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Mavi Gogun
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jjcote
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:28 am Post subject: |
#37 |
For an analogy, consider having this discussion not so long ago, but instead of varios, it's navigation systems for driving. Somebody says, "Boy, I bet a bunch of this market will be taken over by smartphone apps", and somebody else replies, "No, that won't be practical because etc. etc.". So what's the situation now? I have a TomTom in my car, but if I have my girlfriend's kids with me, they can do the same thing with their phones, and sometimes even a bit better, because the phone can find the nearest Taco Bell. The Google Maps version doesn't work if you go out of 3G range (and you're using your data plan when it's in range), but there's another app (from TomTom) that doesn't need connectivity.
You're right about the phone companies insisting on the data plan if you want to have the phone, but there are plenty of people who have already jumped into that pond for other reasons. Once they've done that, then using the phone for additional things incurs no additional cost. That's the target market for a vario app, not people like me who would have to get a smart phone to use it.
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davisstraub
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:41 am Post subject: |
#38 |
And while we are naming calling let's get back to the original title of this thread.
That certainly is the source of my bad attitude here.
Having worked with these people for years I have some idea of their approach to the business of creating high quality varios (I am also aware of the arguments of their critics.) I do not appreciate ignorant put downs.
Ignorant in the actual sense that the author has no idea about Flytec's attitude toward these particular chips, or whether capabilities of cell phone presented any concerns to Flytec.
Now, if the author had started out by saying something like this: "How will Flytec adapt to these technological changes?" I might have had a better attitude.
BTW, Alex Jones Infowars? Give me a break!
http://www.technologyreview.com/communications/40075/?p1=A1
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Mavi Gogun
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:42 am Post subject: |
#39 |
| davisstraub wrote: |
| I guess only curmudgeons would be dumb enough to actually investigate matters while others would just take things at face value whenever some hypster is promoting the next big thing. |
Ah- I see... you've been "investigating" in this thread. The problem comes with the presumption of what 'face value' represents- or, rather, how it is misrepresented. For example, your above presumption that users would select appliances that require a service contract that renders them impractical for the application. The previous iPhone quotes, for example, did not include service contracts. It seems like you're fumbling around for a justification for pissing on somebody else's corn flakes. |
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davisstraub
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:44 am Post subject: |
#40 |
| Quote: |
| The Google Maps version doesn't work if you go out of 3G range (and you're using your data plan when it's in range), but there's another app (from TomTom) that doesn't need connectivity. |
Exactly. I love Google Maps, but I would be nuts to use it on my Smart Phone as I drive across country as it would eat up my data plan in a a couple of states.
Now, on the other hand. Gaggle uses very little data.
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