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wayne ripley
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:58 am    Post subject: Freedom 170 towing Reply with quote #1   
Has anyone had trouble aero towing the freedom. I have about 250 aero tow's in all kinds of gliders yet my new Freedom seems to be a handful, any idea's?
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kermit
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #2   
You should buy falcon
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dievhart
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #3   
What setup are you using?(2 or 3 point release)
Might try a tail fin....
Can you describe more of what the problem is?
Diev

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peanuts
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #4   
what kind of problems are you experiencing.... pitch/yaw/etc.
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Jake206



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #5   
nice
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CHassan
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #6   
My first question would be "How does it fly off of tow (for you)?"
Might be a set up/tuning issue.

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lostgriz
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #7   
My Freedom tows beautifully. What type of tow setup are you using? How old is your Freedom? Do you know if it has the new airfoil? If you are using a 3 point tow, where are you towing from on the glider?

Describe your issues when towing.

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lostgriz
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #8   
kermit wrote:
You should buy falcon


Yes, get rid of the kick ass Freedom and get a Falcon. Laughing

Hit your finger with a hammer too.

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Cav_Man_77
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #9   
My Freedom tows beautifully.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IrbJSr2ALc

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AIRTHUG
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Freedom 170 towing Reply with quote #10   
wayne ripley wrote:
Has anyone had trouble aero towing the freedom. I have about 250 aero tow's in all kinds of gliders yet my new Freedom seems to be a handful, any idea's?


The problem probably hangs within the control frame Laughing

Depending what your last glider was, you're likely over-flying the glider. AKA PIO

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Bobfly
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #11   
The Freedom is REALLY sensitive to the location of your keel tow point. Too far back and it becomes squirrelly as hell. A couple of inches makes a big difference. I think I was told to put it 8 inches (at least) in front of the control frame/keel junction but don't take my word on that. Lostgriz, where did you put yours? They towed perfectly for everyone in the SS Shootout (protow).
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stephmet
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #12   
The Freedom is more challenging to tow than a standard single surface glider. I feel it is even more squirrely than my Litesport at times. It is something you have to get used to. If you have not already - try the mid to tight setting on the haul back and if your are using a three point tow, the keel point should be no less than 5 inches from the king post.
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lostgriz
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #13   
I am currently towing 12 1/4" in front of the foremost hole in the keel and hanging from the second hole back. My glider is an early model, so this may be different with newer models. I had a very experienced pilot test it with the first couple settings and I have made slight adjustments from there. My glider ATs sweet and I have ATed in everything from smooth to very turbulent conditions. I also PMed my recommendations.

I found the Freedom to be only slightly more demanding on tow than a Falcon and definitely easier than a slower responding DS glider.

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wayne ripley
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:38 am    Post subject: towing 170 Freedom Reply with quote #14   
There seems to be a differance of opion as to the pull point. I'm at 8 " so I guess I'll try a little more,say 10". I'm sure it's me and In time I'll get it but those low lockout's [30 feet off the ground] are messing with my head. I did have a tail fin made much like a Sensor so that sound help.
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Captian Matt
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #15   
Have you been towing at Rhett's new place?
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lostgriz
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #16   
I would definately say that you should move your tow point forward.

If you aren't current with your towing, you should probably get some tows logged with a glider that you are comfortable on before proceeding with the Freedom. I would also recommend getting someone else to tow with your Freedom, just to confirm that all is cool. I have never come close to a lockout, and would hope that you can get this figured out without having another one.

Get someone that is either currently towing a Freedom or is a towing stud to help you through this.

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wayne ripley
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:43 am    Post subject: towing 170 Freedom Reply with quote #17   
I spent 6 weeks at the Ranch towing the last too weeks I had the Freedom. I had trouble towing it so I asked Eric[Ranch hand] to try it and he said the nose wondered back and forth and was kind of disconserting so we put a fin on it and it towed well for him. I was able to tow it in the morning to 2500 with out much of a problem but midday was a handful[lockout's] I ahve been towing since 1994,everything from a topless Sensor,Exxtacy,Fusion ect so I know how to tow[or so I thought]
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lostgriz
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:57 am    Post subject: Re: towing 170 Freedom Reply with quote #18   
wayne ripley wrote:
I spent 6 weeks at the Ranch towing the last too weeks I had the Freedom. I had trouble towing it so I asked Eric[Ranch hand] to try it and he said the nose wondered back and forth and was kind of disconserting so we put a fin on it and it towed well for him. I was able to tow it in the morning to 2500 with out much of a problem but midday was a handful[lockout's] I ahve been towing since 1994,everything from a topless Sensor,Exxtacy,Fusion ect so I know how to tow[or so I thought]


I am sure you are on your game with the towing then. I will be interested to hear how it tows when you move the tow point forward. Also, have Cameron send you the new batten template, so that you can switch to the new airfoil. I have heard that it tends to be more yaw stable, but again, I have the old airfoil and mine tows fine.

I was recently chatting with another Freedom Owner that had stepped back from a Litespeed to the Freedom and had just logged his first ATs and was loving the Freedom. Aside from the issue with towing that you are sorting out, how do you like the glider? The newer Freedoms are much more refined in the details than mine, but it has sure been a great glider for me.

Good Luck

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wayne ripley
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:28 am    Post subject: Freedom 170 towing Reply with quote #19   
Thanks, I have the batten pattern so that should be ok. As to how I like the glider I only have two tow's to 2500 and Having come from a Falcon 3 I think it's much better. Very light on pitch and roll, great speed, I was able to get 50mph with little effort and the glide at speed seems a lot better. It stall's at 15mph with my weight[hookin 210] and seems to land well as well. I have been flying for 38 year's so it's a lot closer to the end then the begining so I'm droping back on glider preformance so I can keep going and still have fun. The Freedom seems like the right choice for me. Thanks for all your help.
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DocSoc
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #20   
Enjoy your Freedom, I've had mine since I started hang gliding and I've enjoyed every minute I've used it. Fact is I flew one of the prototypes known as the SSRT, or single surface round tip. I flew it for over 2 hours the first time at Lookout and shortly after I bought one that was too much for a pilot in Florida.

Best wishes for you and the best Single Surface machine I know.

-DocSoc

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