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BRP
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Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 211
Location: Idaho
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 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:07 pm Post subject: 5030 vs 6030 Questions |
 #1 |
I have a chance to get a hold of a recently reconditioned 5030.
It is a PG version without the pitot for TE probe or indicated airspeed, but looks like it has a plug where the probe can go so I will likely be able to have those features.
So...
How long have the 5030's been around?
What was the list price for a new one?
What other differences are there besides the battery of the 5030?
I don't recall EVER seeing any come up used so I'm considering it over a new 6030!
Either one will be a nice upgrade from my 4005 with an airspeed probe and Garmin Etrex legend csx.
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Blaine
Falcon 1 -- 195
Ramair 146
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Fred Wilson
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Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 1544
Location: Vernon BC Canada
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Andrew Vanis
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Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 482
Location: www.flysandia.org - Albuquerque, NM, USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:22 pm Post subject: |
#3 |
Preface – I am a 5030 owner. There is more detail on these answers than what is written below but this should get you started.
1 - I've never seen a 5030 w/o a pitot. Could be as simple as inserting the tube. If you use the wind vane it’s (I think) $150 and its inconvenient to have the extra piece
2 - one of the main feature of the 5030 and the 6030 is the S2F stuff for which a speed sensor is necessary.
3 – re # 1 above - Steve @ Flytec can answer that questions for you. It is probably he who reconditioned it. If it was anyone other than him I would ask about the reconditioning (except if it was the Swiss? factory). Call and ask Steve about it, he’s really good to work with,
a - the 5030 does (almost) everything the 6030 does (a1)
b - the 6030 is better (in almost) every way (b1)
c - the reason to get the 5030 is price. Seems the 5030s (when they do show up) have been going for about $600-$700 with the HG bracket which is about ˝ price of a new 6030. th 5030 is a good piece of tech and if something needs to be repaced is the batteries about $100 and/or (if you have an early 5030 version) the screen about $130
• like Fred says, the manual is excellent and it is different than the factory manual. The 5030 manual is great.
So decide what it necessary for your level of flying. For most I would figure the 5030 is a good choice at a certain price.
(a1) the 5030 is an excellent competition flight computer but 6030 is even more tuned for competition flying with things like speed to exit circle so you can nail the crossing to a split second. The 5030 just has a time countdown so you have to gauge the speed yourself. The 6030 optimizes a route to the perimeter of the waypoint cylinder where as the 5030 only does the calcs to the center of the cylinder - so on large turn cylinders this could make a difference.
Keep in mind that Johnny Durand has smoked everyone on a 4030race/Garmin 96 and only recently went to 6030 so it’s less the instrument than the pilot.
(b1) some feel that the bigger compass rose on the 5030 is easier to see/use since that is where the wind and lift indicators are.
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Tormod
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Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 180
Location: Oslo, Norway
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:24 pm Post subject: |
#4 |
| Are you sure it's a 5030? The PG version without pitot tube is called 5020. I have one, it works OK but in no way it's good enough for HG competition, small screen, no speed to fly, no mcready. Go for a 6030 if you're going to compete, I did and have no regrets.
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Tormod
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Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 180
Location: Oslo, Norway
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:26 pm Post subject: |
#5 |
duplicate
Last edited by Tormod on Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BRP
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Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 211
Location: Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:28 pm Post subject: |
#6 |
Yep it is a 5030. Had a $180 reconditioning by Steve @ Flytec. It was flown by a pg pilot that, now I'm thinking he took to probe off and might have it. I have a flytec wind vane probe that might plug into it but I rarely used it on the 4005. It was a hassle to use. Hoping the TE/indicated air speed sensor will be easier. You each have helped give me some better questions for Steve. Thanks. I hope to use it for Chelan, King mostly with STF, wind component direction and speed and final glides with occasional turn point use. Price is holding me back from a 6030! 
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Blaine
Falcon 1 -- 195
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Andrew Vanis
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Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 482
Location: www.flysandia.org - Albuquerque, NM, USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:12 pm Post subject: |
#7 |
on the 5030 the probe is "one piece" (more or less) and unlike the 6030 where the probe is user removable, the 5030 it is not user removable unless it was modified somehow.
Let us know what you end up with any why and what questions you had for Steve and how he answered them.
PS a HG bracket is like$80. every so often there is a Pod that comes up. however the bracket from your 4005 should work.
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Andrew Vanis
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Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 482
Location: www.flysandia.org - Albuquerque, NM, USA
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andylongvq
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Joined: 24 May 2011
Posts: 475
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:03 pm Post subject: |
#9 |
I've got a 5030. Here's some of the features I've found quite useful over the last few years while flying XC.
- Speed To Fly/Best Glide. Not only for when there is a rhythm and consistency to the thermals but for when you've got a big ass glide that you've got to make to reach more clouds or a trigger point.
It's interesting how much you need to vary your speed for best glide when you've got a light tail wind but you're flying through areas of zero sink then stronger sink. Stuff you just can't tell by feel. The 5030 has taught me how rarely you actually fly the glider manufacturer's recommended best glide speed when flying best glide.
- Altitude Above Waypoint. This one was completely instrumental in getting me past 100 miles on a flight last summer when I needed to make a long glide over lots of trees towards the end of the flight when I wasn't that high.
Pulled up the next LZ waypoint in the distance in the 5030 before the end of the climb and it told me if I was going to make it or not while on glide. A great safety feature for when you have to make intimidating glides over dinosaur country.
- Netto Vario. It's easy to glide right through light lift if you are gliding on the fast side, particularly if you have very light pitch pressures on your glider. Watching the Netto Vario has gotten me to slow down, vary my path and eventually find a core when normally I would have just kept on gliding by feel alone.
- Stall Alarm. Good for those super hot, no wind, density altitude landings. A good anti whack tool.
My recommendation is you grab that 5030... before someone else does. Like me who would buy it and then sell it to a friend. 
- Andy
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Andrew Vanis
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Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 482
Location: www.flysandia.org - Albuquerque, NM, USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:14 pm Post subject: |
#10 |
| andylongvq wrote: |
| - Stall Alarm. Good for those super hot, no wind, density altitude landings. A good anti whack tool. |
for flexies the wind vane with a 5030 or a 6030 is better here. The 5030 has a min speed resolution on the pitot of 19mph (IAS) which is only a warning for most flexies and a few mph than most of their stall speeds. For rgids its probably more useful.
The wind vane I think goes down to 0 mph. The 6030 goes down lower than 19 (but I forget how low)
that being said, I still use the pitot stal warning for my flexie. helps a ton.
if you pass on the 5030 let me know.
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Pete B
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Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 713
Location: The wetlands, UK
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:43 am Post subject: |
#11 |
There were 2 versions of the 5030. One with a Pitot and one without.
The 5020 was a different model with no Pitot.
The 5030 without the Pitot will have a socket to plug in the wind vane. You won't be able to pop a pitot into it without much expense if indeed it is possible.
Pete
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BRP
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Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 211
Location: Idaho
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:34 pm Post subject: |
#12 |
I have made an offer to get the 5030 after talking with Steve today. I will likely be selling my 4005 with mounting bracket and airspeed sensor later in the spring! PM me if interested...
First off, they service, not recondition them.
This particular one was serviced for a loose battery that caused a short (Date displayed was always off) that was fixed. Has the original battery still, and I'm good with that. Good as new now, circuit wise.
The early 5030's shared the same case for the pg version, just did not have the sensor in the circuitry or probe.
I have a second flytec mount, just need to get or make a longer arm is all. I'm considering building a pod like the one someone on the org posted awhile back.
BUT...  For around $100 shipping included. I can have the unit sent to Europe and the probe installed and calibrated. Something I will have done before summer hits.
Andrew, Andy, I did some digging around the Flytec web site. You can get a firmware update from the link below that will get the 5030 pitot to read down to zero IAS.
This is also something I will be doing to this unit if it's not the latest firmware update.
I would encourage everyone who has a 5030 to get the latest version. Has things like new user field with L/D around several turn points to goal. Still no optimised route to cylinder edges. Oh well.
http://www.flytec.ch/de/support/downloads/firmware.html?file=tl_files/downloads/firmware/pdf/Release%20Notes%202_26.pdf
Meanwhile...  HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
Fly Safe!
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Blaine
Falcon 1 -- 195
Ramair 146
H4 |
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Andrew Vanis
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Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 482
Location: www.flysandia.org - Albuquerque, NM, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:08 pm Post subject: |
#13 |
| BRP wrote: |
| You can get a firmware update from the link below that will get the 5030 pitot to read down to zero IAS. |
Where do you see that? The only thing I see is the speedoffset which is a different thing
• Additional Speedoffset 0-10km/h in case of pitot tube. This is to
correct the influence of the slower air speed under the wing.
(Complete revision history below)
| BRP wrote: |
| I have a second flytec mount, just need to get or make a longer arm is all. |
The regular mount works for the 5030. The only reason to have an extension is to bring it out in front.
| BRP wrote: |
| I will likely be selling my 4005 with mounting bracket and airspeed sensor later in the spring! |
You may want to keep that airspeed sensor. In fact if you mount it to the 5030 case or the pod you make and just use that you don’t have to send your unit to Switzerland. Then you'll have the <19mph speed readings too. The vane works just like the pitot.
If you don't end up using it, Pm me with a price just on the vane.
| BRP wrote: |
| I have made an offer to get the 5030 after talking with Steve today |
Steve’s really helpful, isn’t he? Hope you end up with the 5030
2.26 • Userfield Racestart becomes inverse after race has started.
(Positive)
• Zoomfactor will be stored.
2.25a • Bugfix countdown timer near the international dateline (New
Zealand, Australia, Canada)
2.25 • Bug Fix: After leaving the Ins CTR dialog with key “menu” the
instrument blocked
• Bug Fix: Calculation of Alta. Goal could be wrong in special cases
(Number overflow)
• Battery capacity will be displayed during start and termination
2.24 • New userfield: L/D required to gola over several waypoints into
goal.
• Display of the acoustic gap of the McCready acoustics in the ring
of the daytypical climb.
• Bug fixed if if more than 100 flights in the memory
• No booking of flights in case of flighttime <3min
• New flight acceptance:
-> If GPS= _ctive and (Avg. 60s of GPS Speed >10km/h or Delta
h since Start > 30m) then flight acceptance
-> If GPS = not _ctive and (Delta h since Start > 30m) then flight
acceptance
• Userfield compatibility. New userfields always at the end of the list
for the external interface. In the instrument, the order can be
arbitrary•
• Additional Speedoffset 0-10km/h in case of pitot tube. This is to
correct the influence of the slower air speed under the wing.
• New Userfield XT Error (Crosstrack Error). This userfield shows
the perpendicular distance to the active leg of a route. The
precision depends on the length of the active leg and is poorest in
the middle between begin WP and end WP of this leg. As an
example if the leg is 50km, the fault can be 400m in the middle
between begin and end, because the angles becomes very small.
The userfield shows positive values if you are right of the track
and negative values if you are left of the track.
• Bugfix in the handling of the 10 nearest CTR’s. Could lead to a
switch off of the instrument in rare cases.
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BRP
3 thumbs up
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 211
Location: Idaho
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: |
#14 |
Andrew wrote. "You may want to keep that airspeed sensor. In fact if you mount it to the 5030 case or the pod you make and just use that you don’t have to send your unit to Switzerland. Then you'll have the <19mph speed readings too. The vane works just like the pitot."
I wonder then. Will the wind-vane sensor help to compute the total energy into things? That I assumed would only work with the pressure sensor from having the probe? So maybe I have one more question for Steve. My last answer came five minutes after asking! Steve also said the ball arm for the mount from the 4005 needed to be slightly longer for the 5030 case. A moot point if the pod project is tried.
I also read this wrong. Thanks for pointing this out.
• Additional Speedoffset 0-10km/h in case of pitot tube. This is to
correct the influence of the slower air speed under the wing.
I plan to play with the plug in probe I have first before selling it or sending the unit to Switzerland.
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Blaine
Falcon 1 -- 195
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Andrew Vanis
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Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 482
Location: www.flysandia.org - Albuquerque, NM, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject: |
#15 |
Total energy compensation TEC is a function of speed and altitude - are you zooming up or is the thermal lifting you.
The speed can come from either the vane of the pitot. the static pressure inside the unit is what tells the unit the altitude. the speed is the speed.
The vane gives TAS the pitot IAS but that difference does not matter since it is altitude compensated via the internal baro and the software.
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Andrew Vanis
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Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 482
Location: www.flysandia.org - Albuquerque, NM, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:35 pm Post subject: |
#16 |
| BRP wrote: |
| Steve also said the ball arm for the mount from the 4005 needed to be slightly longer for the 5030 case. A moot point if the pod project is tried. |
here's my POD solution. piece of flat aluminum bar and a few bolts.
Don't use the bracket with the plastic mounting bracket (the part that attaches to the control frame). It snaps when one , umm.....has a harder landing 
I mount this on the upright just above where the nosewire attaches to the corner. The orientation is as shown in the top picture.
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BRP
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Posts: 211
Location: Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:04 pm Post subject: |
#17 |
Finally going to get that 5030!!!
I will pick it up on friday if our schedules match up...
So...
I am now offering for sale my 4005 with mounting bracket, manual, and padded flytec bag. $250
The attached photo show my flight to Challis on day one from King last year.
It's the first time my instrument showed max up and max down on the same flight.
I'm keeping the airspeed sensor for now. It should work well with the 5030.
Next I will look at making a "Nerf Pod" that "remmoore" from the hg.org, posted on the oz report, and someday maybe a fancy carbon-fiber pod.
here.. http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10760&highlight=5030+vario
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Blaine
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T9HUBB
Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 21
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:34 am Post subject: |
#18 |
Andrew Vanis
Nice job with the bracket extension, but there is a better solution.
Steve Kroop makes his own extenders of different lengths. I got one that is 12 inches long for less than $20. They are just like the original Flytec rods only of different lengths. He doesn't advertise them on the Flytec site because they are not official Flytec products.
Couldn't be happier with mine.
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145 U2
plumber & dumber |
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Andrew Vanis
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Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 482
Location: www.flysandia.org - Albuquerque, NM, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject: |
#19 |
Very interesting.
got Pictures?
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T9HUBB
Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 21
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject: |
#20 |
No pictures sorry. Camera is down right now. I think they go from 3 inches to a foot and a half, but I'm not sure. It looks like the lower part, the end with a ball, is original Flytec with a new aluminum tube machined on to it. The other end of the tube extension sports the original Flytec screw with the big black plastic tightener so that you attach the vario just the same as always. I picked 12 inches to get the vario farther forward so I could see it when flying fast.
It is very professionally done. It looks just like a Flytec vario rod except the rod is longer.
I had only heard of them and just called Steve Kroop... one of the better upgrades I've ever done.
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The 6030 Flytec USA (only) Manual alone is it, PERIOD for high end pilots, and is worth the price almost alone!