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Jatay
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Optimum Body Weight Reply with quote #1   
I am considering purchasing a used Sport 2 from a freind; I am not super proficient at hang gliding ......yet. This would be a wing to be used in a year or so when my skill level is higher.

The catch is that, at 190, I am 10 lbs below the optimum body weight......its a Sport 2 175 (optimum body weight 200-260).

I see the hook-in weight range as 175-320, which I would fall into nicely.

If one were advising a proficient hang glider pilot, would you tell that pilot:

1) The kite is too big and flying it at that body weight would show poor judgement

2) If you are a good pilot you can fly a wing that large, just use caution with regard to the conditions you fly that wing in.

3) No problem, it done frequently; be advised the wing loading will be lower and handling qualities may not be optimum.

4) ...........

Thanks in advance for your learned advice.
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blindrodie
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #2   
Buy it and REALLY wait til you are ready. IF one day you feel it's too big, like after flying another wing that you can really get a good comparison to, you can sell the Sport as it should retain it's value enough to help you in the purchase of another wing of your choice, style, etc.

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CHassan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #3   
The Sport 2 175 is a BIG glider. It feels like a BIG glider, it flies like a BIG glider, and it feels like a BIG glider.

Yeah I said it twice, but it really does. It floats and floats, and floats with a little guy on it, but it doesn't go anywhere (upwind).

Inputs are sluggish unless you really keep the speed up, then they are just slow.

Still it is a very fine glider!

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aeroexperiments
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Optimum Body Weight Reply with quote #4   
Jatay wrote:

The catch is that, at 190, I am 10 lbs below the optimum body weight......its a Sport 2 175 (optimum body weight 200-260).


Well, I'm 10 pounds outside of the optimum body weight envelope for the Sport 2 135 -- on the light side -- and I like it fine. Maybe that's because I fly with a lot of crap in my harness? I'm well within the recommended hook-in weight range, just a little on the light side of the midpoint.

Steve
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CAL
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #5   
i try to stay at the bottom of the weight range, but not below, i went to a 160 U2 instead of the 145, at 170 either would work with the U2

i have flown a 155 Sport 2 i think you would do fine with it at 190, the 175 S2 is big and is heavy, i would never advise someone to gain weight to stay in the weight range, i would be more inclined to loose weight myself, which i am now doing to stay at the lower end of my gliders range, i am at 175 now but not for long:lol:

as for buying a glider and waiting to use it, good luck with that Laughing

some have said you can get to used to single surface and make it more difficult to transition, but i am sure that is a minority, but i intend to think the same way thumbsup

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CHassan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #6   
CAL wrote:
i try to stay at the bottom of the weight range, but not below, i went to a 160 U2 instead of the 145, at 170 either would work with the U2

i have flown a 155 Sport 2 i think you would do fine with it at 190, the 175 S2 is big and is heavy, i would never advise someone to gain weight to stay in the weight range, i would be more inclined to loose weight myself, which i am now doing to stay at the lower end of my gliders range, i am at 175 now but not for long:lol:

as for buying a glider and waiting to use it, good luck with that Laughing

some have said you can get to used to single surface and make it more difficult to transition, but i am sure that is a minority, but i intend to think the same way thumbsup



I'm the opposite of CAL. I flew a Sport 2 155 at 210 lbs naked weight and loved it. If I can lose another 10 lbs I'd love to try a U2 145 so I could compare it to my 160.

Most modern double surface gliders fly so much better with some weight on them.

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Dan Harding
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #7   
by the time you add the harness, chute, maybe some heavy boots, then a helmet, you will be in the weight range, and you can always add some ballast in the harness.
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CAL
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #8   
CHassan wrote:
CAL wrote:
i try to stay at the bottom of the weight range, but not below, i went to a 160 U2 instead of the 145, at 170 either would work with the U2

i have flown a 155 Sport 2 i think you would do fine with it at 190, the 175 S2 is big and is heavy, i would never advise someone to gain weight to stay in the weight range, i would be more inclined to loose weight myself, which i am now doing to stay at the lower end of my gliders range, i am at 175 now but not for long:lol:

as for buying a glider and waiting to use it, good luck with that Laughing

some have said you can get to used to single surface and make it more difficult to transition, but i am sure that is a minority, but i intend to think the same way thumbsup



I'm the opposite of CAL. I flew a Sport 2 155 at 210 lbs naked weight and loved it. If I can lose another 10 lbs I'd love to try a U2 145 so I could compare it to my 160.

Most modern double surface gliders fly so much better with some weight on them.


what you can get from this post is that we both agree that you would be fine on the 155

i should try the 145 Chassan, maybe i would change my mind

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CHassan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #9   
I'm sure it is more personal preference than anything. I like the sporty feeling the little gliders give me. I know I don't top out quite as high as a little guy on a big glider, but I rarely "top out" before I'm off looking for the next bit of lift anyway.

Another problem we often face around here is drifting downwind in a thermal and the need to get back upwind to the field. Since a higher wing loading usually means a faster best glide, it also means you'll make it upwind farther.

When I was flying the Sport 2 155 at 210lbs nekkid, I might have topped out 100' below a few of the light pilots. Most of the time I could stay close enough to scare them away by tossing a wing tip at them Mr. Green

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bsquare
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: Optimum Body Weight Reply with quote #10   
Jatay wrote:
I am not super proficient at hang gliding


Don't buy the glider yet. Lot's of stuff can happen between now and when you become proficient.

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pjwings
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #11   
Of your options, #2 hits it on the head. However my true feelings are in accord with bsquare. Your knowledge a year from now will be many levels beyond where you are now and your decision making process when choosing a new wing is going to be different as well. It's like picking out your wife in advance as a 13 year old. By the time you get to marrying age, your tastes and judgement are likely to have changed!!

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CAL
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #12   
pjwings wrote:
Of your options, #2 hits it on the head. However my true feelings are in accord with bsquare. Your knowledge a year from now will be many levels beyond where you are now and your decision making process when choosing a new wing is going to be different as well. It's like picking out your wife in advance as a 13 year old. By the time you get to marrying age, your tastes and judgement are likely to have changed!!

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i love it PJ Laughing the funny thing is it's right on Laughing

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pjwings
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #13   
Hmmm, which brings to mind a way to extend the analogy further. If (like Cal) you can have as many wives as you want, then go for it! What have you got to lose?!?

Shocked ..... Embarassed ...... Razz



Sorry Cal, I couldn't resist run


CAL wrote:
i love it PJ Laughing the funny thing is it's right on Laughing

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CAL
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #14   
pjwings wrote:
Hmmm, which brings to mind a way to extend the analogy further. If (like Cal) you can have as many wives as you want, then go for it! What have you got to lose?!?

Shocked ..... Embarassed ...... Razz



Sorry Cal, I couldn't resist run


CAL wrote:
i love it PJ Laughing the funny thing is it's right on Laughing


Ya PJ they are all on the light side of the Sport 2 135 but they want to go topless soon Laughing

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flyingdawg
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #15   
Don't even think of buying a 175 Sport 2 at 190 pounds. I weighed a lot more than that and I didn't listen to my local dealer who told me to buy the 155. I bought the 175 and absolutely did not enjoy flying that glider. It's for really, really big guys. I sold it after very few flights.
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guachetronix
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #16   
I think youre in the very low end of the glider.
My weight is 230 naked and the glider flies very well, but one month ago a friend flew the glider (190 naked) and he fight all the flight with the glider.
Once again, it's big, for big pilots.

Oscar G.

PD: At 275 lbs loaded, performs excellent.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Optimum Body Weight Reply with quote #17   
Jatay wrote:


If one were advising a proficient hang glider pilot, would you tell that pilot:

1) The kite is too big and flying it at that body weight would show poor judgement

2) If you are a good pilot you can fly a wing that large, just use caution with regard to the conditions you fly that wing in.

3) No problem, it done frequently; be advised the wing loading will be lower and handling qualities may not be optimum.

4) ...........

Thanks in advance for your learned advice.


For an experienced pilot I would go with # 2. I personally fly a glider I'm below the Placard just barely, but I fly said glider mainly at my home site, which is a coastal site filled with PG's and the price of landing below is huge(no way of getting the glider other than hiking it up a 350 ft goat path)....

I will not fly said glider in the mountains, or even at the coast when it's beyond a certain wind speed.


Although it sounds like you are a newer pilot, and if that is indeed the case I would recommend staying with in "optimum weight ranges". Oversized gliders are not forgiving to things like cross controlling, and can make launching and landing more difficult due to the larger control frame and less roll control.
(They do have a slow stall speed though)

To sum up what I'm saying: Low wing loading has it's advantages, as well as high wing loading does too, But IMO newer pilots should avoid both....
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #18   
The obvious problem I can see here with these pilots ( CHassan and Oscar) is they seem to be flying Naked, put some clothes on for gods sake!
This maybe more streamlined and OK in Summer but please don't send any youtube vids with a rear keel mounted camera in a cocoon harness.

Try writing a list of pros and cons for a 175 and 155 such as:

175 Pros- Fly in lighted lift-Generally climb higher -Slower landings- ideal for powered harness.
Cons- Harder to handle in turbulence - slow reaction times-Flys slow -Heavy to carry- Larger to store and transport.

155 Pros- Will handle stronger winds- Better in turbulence- more responsive- flys faster- Light to carry- Acro potential.
Cons- Will bomb out sooner- That's about it!

The way I see it the 175 will maximise your flying time but the 155 will without a doubt put the biggest smile on your face, At 195lb (before I get dressed and go flying) I would only go the 175 if I were to fly a powered harness with it.

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CHassan
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #19   
owned
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #20   
I first flew my Sport 2 175 @ 200 pounds body weight - didn't like it. Felt the roll response was way too slow. After a bit of time on the wing, and moving my suspension point from the middle to the forward position, roll feels better but not admirable. Until I can get better wired into the glider I'm not about to fly it close into a hillside on an active day - which shows the extent to which I'm leery about the glider's roll response and/or my ability to get it to turn when/how I want it to. I've not flown a small Sport 2 so I can't comment on whether I'd have a better impression of its handling. If I had to give up the Sport 2 175 for some reason I'd likely replace it with a U2 160 over a smaller Sport 2. If I weighed under 200 and was going to a DS glider for the first time (knowing what I know now about the S2 175) I'd go for the 155. The S2 175 is also a heavy glider @ 75+ pounds. If you have to carry a glider very far the 155 may be the way to go.

My main impression from going to DS is that you need to have a good handle on what speeds you're flying at. Getting to have a good feel for speed helps in entering and controlling turns. This is where I'm improving and why I'm liking the 175 better the more time I get on it. By the end of this year I should have enough of a feel for the glider to know whether to keep it or try something else. I"m happy with it - just not as happy as one ought to be with one's glider.

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