hook-in weight - Hang Gliding Org - Worlds largest Hang Gliding community, discover Hang Gliding

Search

  • Sorry...You must register to activate searching









Post new topic   Reply to topic    Hang Gliding Org Forum Index -> Q&A, Learning to hang glide->hook-in weight
BURY this topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
paulsreef
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 05 Jan 2012
Posts: 39
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:04 pm    Post subject: hook-in weight Reply with quote #1   
I've been eyeing the Falcon 3 as my first glider. I weigh anywhere between 185-200lbs. I try to be at the low end during the summer motocross season. Would it be better to go with the Falcon 3 170 or 195? Their website mentions that as a beginner I would find the 170 easier to control, and my weight is at the bottom end of the 195's range, making the 195 more difficult to control. What do they consider difficult? I definitely don't want to feel out of control, I want a confidence building experience.
Send private message  Rate this post
Vanderwerf
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 19
Location: World Wide

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #2   
I'd say 195. I weighed about the same as you when I started to fly and went with a moyes sonic 165 was heavy on it but loved it... work now as a full time tandem hang pilot... the falcon is easy to handle if you heavy or light on it. If you aero tow a bit I would maybe say go with the 170 but if you're foot launching go 195... slower launch/ landing speads... better sink rate, etc. Oh and when your at the pub you won't mind having a few more beers and a burger to end the night with.
Send private message  Rate this post
blindrodie
2 thumbs up
2 thumbs up


Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 4359
Location: Roeland Park, KS

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #3   
"Control" is a relative term.

At this stage in your flying career I would be more concerned about wing loading, experience and the type of flying you will be doing most to help hone your decision.

Cool

_________________
"Tow me up. I'll find my way down"

Kansas City Hang Glider Supplies
Guggenmos E7
WW U2 145
WW F1 195 (SOLD)
FlyTec 6015
CG 1000
Tracer Plus
Organ Donor
Torrey Hawk #212
Send private message  Rate this post
NickL
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 138
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #4   
I flew a Falcon 195 during training, and it handled lovely. I weigh 145lbs!

Should say though that that was flying on nice calm days (8-10mph max) off aerotow. If you're going to be flying in stronger winds (ridge soaring) you might want a smaller one.

Happy flying thumbsup
Send private message  Rate this post
CAL
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 3786
Location: OGDEN, UT

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #5   
remember with less wing loading all your speeds decrease, so that means your stall speed decreases, making the glider easier to land, your sink rate decreases as well, i try to stay fit and within the lower end of my wing loading, if i am fit i have no problem with it being a little stiffer to turn, i am at the lower end of my U2 160, the falcon is much easier to turn, IMO you would be fine being on the lower end of the wing loading

Dan McManus flies his tandem Falcon by himself at times which is a 225 and he is at the low end of a 190, with that said he is also a very experienced pilot thumbsup

_________________
Explore nature from the eyes of an Eagle
Send private message  Rate this post
jjcote
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 3377
Location: Lunenburg, MA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #6   
I'd guess 195, but the common wisdom around here for this kind of question is "Ask Your Instructor".
_________________
H4 + most skills
WW U2 145, WW UltraSport 147, WW Falcon2 170, PacAir Vision Mark IV 17
My HG wiki profile and my flying blog
Send private message Blog  Rate this post
Windlord
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 5290
Location: Montana

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #7   
You want to be able to control the wing, not the wing controlling you.
Just depends what kind of flying you're planning to do. A big wing can be a nightmare if you are not ready for it.

_________________
H-4 (1976) UP Saturn 147 & UP Axis 13
The Cloudbase Foundation
Learn to fly hang gliders (click here}
Torrey Hawks #208
Send private message  Rate this post
J Fritsche
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 21 Mar 2010
Posts: 479
Location: Lompoc, CA ("central coast")

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #8   
I've flown both sizes several times. I weigh about 165, hook-in at about 190. Although I'm a little light on it, controlling the 195 is still very easy, easier than the much smaller double-surface glider I usually fly. But I still prefer the 170 because that's got sports-car handling and, more importantly, has much better penetration in the high winds I must often fly in.
You're 20 pounds heavier than me--when you're at your lightest--though. I bet most people, including Wills Wing and your instructor, are going to recommend the 195 for you.

_________________
Saturn 147, Predator 142
Send private message  Rate this post
psilyguy
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 13 Sep 2011
Posts: 438
Location: ON, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #9   
Lots of light lift days around here. Go with the 195.
Send private message  Rate this post
Jason
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 8640
Location: Stapleton, Colorado

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #10   
go with the bigger one for learning......

i'm 160-165 lbs and have flown the tandem falcon (230 sqft) solo
I have flown the original 195 solo as well with no problems....as well as the 170, and the 140.....

you want something that is going to give you easy takeoff and landings.....but isn't so big that its cumbersome on the ground.......i learned on the 170 and it was a good fit

at 185-200 id definetly go with the 195......i think as a general rule on the single surface gliders you should have about as many sqft as you weigh in lbs.

_________________
TSA, NSA Sieg Heil! (HAIL VICTORY)
Send private message  Rate this post
Dan Harding
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 703
Location: Washington State, close to the blanchard site

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #11   
Jason wrote:
go with the bigger one for learning......

i'm 160-165 lbs and have flown the tandem falcon (230 sqft) solo
I have flown the original 195 solo as well with no problems....as well as the 170, and the 140.....

you want something that is going to give you easy takeoff and landings.....but isn't so big that its cumbersome on the ground.......i learned on the 170 and it was a good fit

at 185-200 id definetly go with the 195......i think as a general rule on the single surface gliders you should have about as many sqft as you weigh in lbs.



p.s. you can always add abit of ballast in the harness if ya want.

_________________
U.S.H.G.A. # 20275
Send private message  Rate this post
HangDog
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 1484

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #12   
You can actually go above the hook in weights but not much. If a wing calls for say: 180 to 225 hook in weight you can actually take it too around 250 if needed maybe even more.

The glider is not going to fall out of the sky. The worse thing that happens is it will have a slightly less glide ratio and you might have to come in a bit faster to flare but those numbers won't be that noticeable on a wing say like a Falcon 190 or larger.

Now if your talking about a smaller wing like a 150 or 170 then this might be a lot more noticeable if your still adding the same twenty five extra pounds or so because you have a lot less surface area and sail material regardless if the weight of the pilot is a lot less for a particular smaller wing then the 190.

A smaller pilot who weighs less flying a 170 compared to a pilot weighing more who flies a 190 can stretch his/her weight limits won't always be the same with the extra weight of say 25lbs for both wings because of the lack of sail area. It sounds like it might be based on pilot weight or hook in weight and the ratios are suppose to be configured for each wing but in fact your still adding extra weight (same weight 25lbs) to both wings but the smaller wing will handle a lot different then a larger wing carrying that extra 25lbs.

The reason for this is simply because the air itself stays the same. Now if a lighter pilot flies and the air would adjust itself to that wing then maybe it wouldn't matter but the air stays the same (density and temperatures) based on altitude or ASL and weather conditions so it's going to be the same for all pilots light and heavy thus acting differently on each wing and pilot flying.

The air don't care how much weight is tied to a glider it just knows how to react with the amount of sail cloth flying through it regardless and the less the material the faster a wing will have to travel to maintain it's optimum glide ration and handling capabilities given by it's manufacturer.

The weight specifications are given by manufacturers as a sort of best glide ratio and handling of the wing and it's stress factors and it's design keeping those numbers in a fairly large *zone* if you will, of minimums and maximums but they can go over these numbers or under depending on sail area of the wing and hook in weight minimums and limits.

That's why the wing I use to have was like a 747 and could probably carry a BBQ Grill, Keg of beer and the food to go along with it and still fly to BFE and back on a good day. I like larger wings simply for the fact I can stretch those numbers safely and still fly within range of good performance and safety of the wing and it's structure.

Peace out!
~A~

thumbsup
Send private message Blog  Rate this post
Fred Wilson
2 thumbs up
2 thumbs up


Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 2386
Location: Vernon BC Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #13   
http://www.willswing.com/prod2.asp?theClass=hg&theModel=falcon3#specifications

Hook-In Weight (lbs) including Harness etc
Falcon 3 145 = 120-190
Falcon 3 170 = 140-220
Falcon 3 195 = 175-275

Optimum Body Weight (lbs)
Falcon 3 145 = 110-140
Falcon 3 170 = 140-170
Falcon 3 195 = 170-220

_________________
Thermaling Tips Wiki + Cross Country Coaching Manuals + RASP Wiki
____________________

Avatar:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vuelo-Libre-M%C3%A9xico/111894915509032?ref=ts&fref=ts
Send private message Blog  Rate this post
paulsreef
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 05 Jan 2012
Posts: 39
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #14   
Thanks everyone for all of your input.
Paul
Send private message  Rate this post
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Hang Gliding Org Forum Index -> Q&A, Learning to hang glide
 
All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1


 
Jump to:  


(c) HangGliding.org All rights reserved. Based on PhpBB