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A medical official says more than 75 people were injured in a plane crash at an air race event in Reno, Nevada 25 critically.

http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/BREAKING_NEWS__129999193.html

Paul H · Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:12 pm Post subject:

The latest reports list 54 injured with three dead (one of them being the pilot). The number of fatalities may change by tomorrow, but who knows?
The crash was probably the best it could have been that close to the crowd. He went straight in on the tarmac and there was no fire. The inuries seem to be all caused by flying debris, not by the plane actually landing on anyone. It was the first time injuries happened to spectators in 48 years of the air races.
That is still a much better safety record than many other motorsports.

rogallo flyer · Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 18

My son and I were both there. It was very close for us and I can tell you all we are both lucky to be here tonight. The crash was about 100 feet from us. This accident happened so fast there was no time to move. The aircraft did in fact crash directly into the crowd. It was horrific and I feel sick about it. Keep the speculation to a minimum. My thoughts and prayers go out to all the people hurt and worse today. Sad

Roger

CHassan · 3 thumbs up Joined: 27 Jul 2006 Posts: 4593 Location: Ohio

That is a sad though! Sounds like it could have been much worse!

Phoenix · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:00 am Post subject:

SeeMarkFly · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:05 am Post subject:

Straight in one wingspan from the seats, this could have been a LOT worse.
The pilot is included in the (now 3 downgraded from 12) fatalities.
I saw a couple of interviews indicating that the pilot was still trying to control the plane but they were not pilots themselves so.....

rogallo flyer · Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 18

After the accident happened, I stood in shock for about 30 seconds. At least it seemed like it, but time has a way of warping in these situations. Then I grabbed our gear, told my son we needed to leave. We were walking out and so were many others. It was very orderly, like when you practise a fire drill in school. The onsite emergency services were there immediately. The off airport ambulance, police and fire trucks were already rolling towards the scene as we were leaving. What an incredible job they did.

I would say the pilot was definately trying to control the aircraft. He didnt have a heart attack or anything like that. I could see the elevator pulsing up and down as he tried to control it. But you could tell he didn't have full control. I think he was definately trying to miss the crowd and another 50 feet and he would have hit past the box seats and hit the ramp.

Again, sorry for all the people that got hurt. Everyone was just out to have fun and good times, watching these amazing aircraft fly and race. Sad

HangDog · 3 thumbs up Joined: 08 Aug 2008 Posts: 1485

OK people this might sound a bit crazy but I like to look at all details of an aircraft accident when given the chance so here's my perspective. Keep an open mind here as you read this, this is true based on what I discovered and have heard already by FAA investigators. Think about this.

A lot of people are saying he was trying to control the plane and you could see the elevators moving back and forth and that the pilot was trying to control the plane.

Well first of all take a look at the first two pictures of the plane posted above, (top of the plane pic and the left side of the plane picture)

Does anyone notice anything particular about this plane? I do

First, the picture showing the top of the plane as it's inverted facing the crowd, shows the left elevator *Trim Tab* is missing completely, this alone can cause the elevators to move by themselves and cause what is know as *Flutter* on an elevator surface and because of the speed the plane is traveling.

Now for the real kicker here that I still can't figure out. Think about this now...

In the second picture of the plane showing the left side, doe's anyone notice anything in particular? I notice one thing that REALLY got my attention and that's the fact that there is no profile of a pilot's head in this plane!

Now stay with me here because I can explain this, here we go....

First of all these modified p51's are very modified indeed and the reason I have a problem with this is the fact that a mustang racer's canopy is highly modified and cut down and shortened to only give just enough room for the pilots helmet. That's right, there is not hardly any room in these cockpits for a pilot to move around with the re-sized canopies so this is really suspicious here.
If the pilot was in control of this aircraft he would be visible in this picture, you would see his head because they are strapped in against the back rest and have very limited room to move around.

The other thing is this,.. If he had any room at all in there, maybe to move forward or backward then this picture would also indicate (since you can not see this pilot) that he would of fell forward towards the front of the cockpit during the dive! right? This would be very possible if he was unconscious for sure.

He could of lost unconsciousness on two accounts, one being he was under very high stress or (G's) and two he could of had heart failure due to these sudden changes in g's.

Back to the pictures though, either way you look at this picture, it doe's not make any sense what so ever. If he was forward in the cockpit then how do you explain this? If he was alive, you would see him in this picture! How do you explain this one? Even if he was slumped over then how the hell did his harness get loose to allow that in the first place? they don't come undone by themselves!

Well anyway, this is very disturbing that this plane doe's not show this pilots head in this diving picture.

There were also eyewitnesses saying something flew off the plane and it was a large object and it hit a hangar which they heard on the end of the field saying it was a huge bang sound!, REALLY? over all the noise of the crowds and other aircraft flying around you heard this?? Well I can tell you that if it was the trim tab off the left stabilizer / elevator you see missing in the picture... it would not of sounded like they were saying especially overpowering the other noises like crowds, other planes and announcers talking. Those parts are very light and not that large at just over a foot long, it would not *Slam* into a hangar, it would of fluttered down very lightly.

Now here's the other explanation of all of this, I know by now you probably think I'm nuts right? not so fast!.

One thing I didn't mention above because I was saving it for last.

Some canopies on these planes are spring loaded. In the event a canopy opens in mid air or is intentionally open it will automatically close. This can be bypassed with a switch allowing the pilot to either open the canopy and the canopy staying open or the pilot can open the canopy while it's in auto mode and then the canopy will close on it's own after a few seconds.

Think about this, look at the pictures.

Based on the pic of the *invisible pilot*, He was either already dead before the plane hit the ground and slumped over which is rare anyway

and two, based on the witnesses saying they heard a huge bang slamming into a hangar only gets me thinking this pilot might of bailed out way before that plane even got near the stands or the crowds and maybe just far enough so that you could not tell what it was flying from the plane hitting the hangar.

This is very possible and the plane could have flown itself based on the attitude it was in, the speed and so on. Loosing an elevator trim tab can cause a plane to fly crazy in all senses of the word here and act the same as if someone was trying to control it.

Why did the plane roll over at the top of the climb if he was awake and trying to fly away and get out of danger? this doe's not add up, Why? You can fly a plane just fine without a trim tab IF YOUR AWAKE! It's not hard at all. The trim tabs are only there to take load off the control so the plane can continue flying straight and level. Even one trim tab will do this. But if there is not anyone at the controls or a dead guy in the plane the plane will react by itself to this missing part! This is what happen!.

Why is there no picture of his head in the cockpit?? again this does not add up!

How the hell can he be completely invisible here? He is either NOT IN THE PLANE here at all or he is buried face first below the level of view but then again there are only a couple of reasons for this as I already explained above.

I think they will find this pilot did in fact bail out, did not have time to open his chute because you'll notice in the video it was very low when it came into site of the cameras and then the pilot slammed into the hangar.

An if not then he was already dead way before hitting the ground. That plane just happen to crash where it did and no body had control of it at all, not based on these pictures!!.

Don't be surprised if they find this pilot in a location other then the impact area. Hell with an impact like that, your lucky if they find teeth.

There is something a lot different here folks. Think about it.

~A~

SeeMarkFly · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:28 am Post subject:

I am not 100 percent sure if that photo is pre-crash or "shopped" in any way.
<edit>
CBS news says it is a pre-crash photo.
I found a few more (showing what the pilot's helmet looks like normally).

HangDog · 3 thumbs up Joined: 08 Aug 2008 Posts: 1485

yeah you see my point now. The other pics show the plane in the air with no pilot head. If it's a manipulated photo then they did one hell of a job because usually you can load it up in photoshop and you can see the *fingerprint* if you will of the manipulation if you know what to look for and use certain filters. I checked it out and didn't find any evidence of manipulation on that photo.

Thanks for posting the other two where you in fact see the pilot, you can see how little room they really have and if the other pictures are real and not manipulated, that pilot is not in that plane man. even if he was slumped over you would still see part of his helmet regardless and not totally hidden from the whole canopy.

~A~

SeeMarkFly · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:41 am Post subject:

When that engine came apart (the loud noise) the "usual" direction for parts is laterally (radially?) but big parts hitting smaller parts could have been directed toward the pilot's seat (firewall breach (maybe cockpit suddenly filled with hot motor oil)).
I blew up the inverted picture and you can still make out the pilot's helmet (forward of the usual position)?
Also I'm not sure what that smoke (or clouds in the background) is. It's not there a second later.
I thought the only way to eject was through the canopy.

ChattaroyMan · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:02 am Post subject:

You may also not see the pilot's head in the nose down profile view of 177 due to a reflection off of the canopy.

rogallo flyer · Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 18

The canopy on the Galloing Ghost is hinged at the aft end. It opens upwards from the windscreen to the turtle deck. Like an F-15 or F-16. If he had bailed out the canopy would be long gone. This happened sooo fast I believe he did not bail out.

The smoke on the side of the fuselage is part of the cooling system. Its some kind of evaporator system because the radiator and belly scoop have been removed. They told us, if the aircrat isnt producing that smoke, it's not operating correctly.

Roger

SeeMarkFly · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:32 am Post subject:

oshi · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:57 am Post subject:

Link

Paul H · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:08 am Post subject:

Step away from the crack pipe, Hangdog. The pilot did NOT bail out of the aircraft. Lack of visibility of the pilot's head in the pictures is easily explained. His head is back against the headrest part of the seat when flying which puts it at the very rear of the canopy where it's not easily visible. The pictures showing the plane taxiing don't show the normal position of the pilot, he's leaning way up for visibility which is a problem with a lot of tail draggers and even more so with one that has had the canopy modified.

FormerFF · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:16 am Post subject:

Usually it's best to wait for the investigation to be completed before making any conclusions.

HangDog · 3 thumbs up Joined: 08 Aug 2008 Posts: 1485

Phoenix · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:14 pm Post subject:

Here is a screen capture from the CNN Article last night. The image was
a video thumbnail, but the video was the press conference, not the accident.

Although I got the impression from other vids that the aircraft when straight
down, it looks as if it was beguining to pull out. There is no such thing as
"only" when it comes to casualties, but I am amazed that there weren't many
more from this photo.

Paul, Hangdog, please keep the noise/signal ratio down on this one, K?

Paul H · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:21 pm Post subject:

Yes, I do know what a turtle deck is. I've been working in the aviation business for 34 years. How about you.

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