Tom, the video of your launch does indeed show the contrast between your good launch and my failed one. I captured your launch and compared it with mine. As you just pointed out, you had your hang strap tight when you started your run while mine was slack, with the downtubes resting on my shoulders.
Your control bar is also noticeably higher off the ground than mine. You're taller than me, but not that much taller.
And you started your run from the path, where I should have started mine.
I'm inserting two photos of us just before we started our runs. I think yours is at that moment - it's the first clear frame after the dissolve transition in your video. I've circled a small branch that shows our relative starting positions.
You can clearly see the differences. You're holding the glider up off your shoulders while I'm not.
Great thread! Very useful to me personally. So glad Ernie's flight ended without physical harm! Much of the feedback can be applied to my first "launch" of 2011 below......
Contributing factors .... fatigue from 3+ hours of shoveling through 2-4 foot snow drifts into get to top of Steptoe Butte, 80s spaghetti harness, not enough of an initial sprint on launch, should have put the same shoveling efforts in getting to top into a decent launch path through the snow, ran out of launch path into deeper, drifted snow just as glider began to lift itself - well before it began to lift me - tripped as glider got ahead of me. Needless to say .... I now fly with a new harness and I RUN! That's the only time I've blown a launch since my first, and only, hang gliding lesson in the summer of 1975.
Please note that I blended out of hg in the fall of 1981 and rejoined the ranks in the fall of 2010. My launches and landings of 2011 (excepting this one) have been pretty well executed - as can be seen by other vids on my chattaroyman Youtube channel.
This thread is going to make me a better pilot - thanks to all for your honest and insightful input and thanks to Ernie for sharing! _________________ U2 160 • Chattaroy, WA - USA
As you just pointed out, you had your hang strap tight when you started your run while mine was slack, with the downtubes resting on my shoulders.
This seems a good time to make a note- how we hold the glider is irrelevant. Strictly in aerodynamic terms, launching is about angle of attack, acceleration, and airspeed. The wing, and the lift it creates, is entirely separate from how you hold the glider.
BUT- you need to find a technique that works for you. You need to be able to consistently and reliably hold a proper angle of attack, accelerate while maintaining that AofA, smoothly load the glider and cleanly fly away- ideally with extra airspeed beyond stall speed.
Some people prefer lifting the glider until straps are tight, others prefer glider on shoulders and letting it lift as airspeed increases. Some prefer the bottle grip, others the grapevine...
I say who cares, as long as it works for you!
Ernie, don't get so caught up in the 'how' other people do things that you lose sight of the (more important) 'why' they're doing them. Focus on the real task at hand... The part that MATTERS...
Here's a no-wind launch @ 9300 ft (with camera, mount and counter weights)... I used the glider resting on shoulders method. The important part was proper AofA throughout, acceleration and staying ahead of the glider, and smooth loading as it lifts and I fly away...
Great thread! Very useful to me personally. So glad Ernie's flight ended without physical harm! Much of the feedback can be applied to my first "launch" of 2011 below......
Contributing factors .... fatigue from 3+ hours of shoveling through 2-4 foot snow drifts into get to top of Steptoe Butte, 80s spaghetti harness, not enough of an initial sprint on launch, should have put the same shoveling efforts in getting to top into a decent launch path through the snow, ran out of launch path into deeper, drifted snow just as glider began to lift itself - well before it began to lift me - tripped as glider got ahead of me. Needless to say .... I now fly with a new harness and I RUN! That's the only time I've blown a launch since my first, and only, hang gliding lesson in the summer of 1975.
Please note that I blended out of hg in the fall of 1981 and rejoined the ranks in the fall of 2010. My launches and landings of 2011 (excepting this one) have been pretty well executed - as can be seen by other vids on my chattaroyman Youtube channel.
This thread is going to make me a better pilot - thanks to all for your honest and insightful input and thanks to Ernie for sharing!
This seems a good time to make a note- how we hold the glider is irrelevant. Strictly in aerodynamic terms, launching is about angle of attack, acceleration, and airspeed. The wing, and the lift it creates, is entirely separate from how you hold the glider.
BUT- you need to find a technique that works for you. You need to be able to consistently and reliably hold a proper angle of attack, accelerate while maintaining that AofA, smoothly load the glider and cleanly fly away- ideally with extra airspeed beyond stall speed.
Some people prefer lifting the glider until straps are tight, others prefer glider on shoulders and letting it lift as airspeed increases. Some prefer the bottle grip, others the grapevine...
This seems a good time to make a note- how we hold the glider is irrelevant. Strictly in aerodynamic terms, launching is about angle of attack, acceleration, and airspeed. The wing, and the lift it creates, is entirely separate from how you hold the glider.
BUT- you need to find a technique that works for you. You need to be able to consistently and reliably hold a proper angle of attack, accelerate while maintaining that AofA, smoothly load the glider and cleanly fly away- ideally with extra airspeed beyond stall speed.
Some people prefer lifting the glider until straps are tight, others prefer glider on shoulders and letting it lift as airspeed increases. Some prefer the bottle grip, others the grapevine...
Reach out with every step way out in front of them and way down the hill and power that wing off no matter what the conditions. Long powerful strides! reach out !
Now that is some really good piece of advice! An actual way to get those long strides, simply reach out. I hope I'm doing it, but I'll focus on it next time.
Reach out with every step way out in front of them and way down the hill and power that wing off no matter what the conditions. Long powerful strides! reach out !
Now that is some really good piece of advice! An actual way to get those long strides, simply reach out. I hope I'm doing it, but I'll focus on it next time.
A virtual takeoff "competition" would be fun..... upload only your launch segments along with slope angle and length/condition of run, wind data, glider and size, harness, height/weight/age of pilot, etc. Maybe we'd learn something that was associated with a particular attribute (or combination of them). At least it would be beneficial for the feedback.
The better the launch the better the flight. _________________ U2 160 • Chattaroy, WA - USA
Reach out with every step way out in front of them and way down the hill and power that wing off no matter what the conditions. Long powerful strides! reach out !
Now that is some really good piece of advice! An actual way to get those long strides, simply reach out. I hope I'm doing it, but I'll focus on it next time.
A virtual takeoff "competition" would be fun..... upload only your launch segments along with slope angle and length/condition of run, wind data, glider and size, harness, height/weight/age of pilot, etc. Maybe we'd learn something that was associated with a particular attribute (or combination of them). At least it would be beneficial for the feedback.
The better the launch the better the flight.[/quote
Focus on all aspects of our launch is a key .
I prefer and teach the bottle grip for many good reasons.Start with the glider setting on our shoulders. First we have to read every launch. figure out how we are going to execute it. Talk it over with other pilots especially younger pilots or new pilots to the site.
Set proper AOA for slope and wind> glider setting on our shoulders> Push the glider forward with our shoulders > walk, jog,run > the first part of the launch is to get the glider flying and get our straps tight.. We should be very aware our straps are tight! The way to get the long strides going is to settle in to the harness as the glider raises up and reach out with our legs. This quickly loads the glider . Our hands should be loose on the bars(bottle grip) and we should be consciously flying the glider through the launch. That means we may need to use pitch and roll contol. WE should be pulling in keeping our feet on the ground and getting extra speed ,leaving the ground with good bar pressure and the feeling the glider is pulling us off.
Even clift launches are much the same only it all happens faster. We may not get full flying lift but we should be settled into the harness and powering off with the straps tight and flying the glider diving away controlling AOA.
New concepts in our launches should be worked out on the training hill. Even in a training glider. They slow it all down. allow us to focus on each point
I decided to post the video for two main reasons:
a. a group review would point out details that I missed, as in "how did it happen?".
b. after the pilot-flying-into-cloud-tossing-his-chute video, I felt I too needed to add to the "don't do this" lesson plan.
c. OK, a third reason was that all the folks at IV that weekend already knew about it and would bug me until I posted it. As it was, two hours after I did get it on Youtube, Pat Denevan called asking if it was up yet.
I appreciate all the feedback, comments, etc. you all have been posting.
Ernie
Ernie, I applaud you for posting this video so others can learn. It takes a lot to stand up for the benefit of others. So I would add one more point:
Quote:
d. to save the lives of other pilots before they get into this situation.
Well done, and THANKYOU
Now, I'd like to know when is not a good time to hold your hang strap tight on launch... anyone?
The only time I can think of is in a high wind situation, as a loose strap may give more purchase on pitch control to prevent nose-popping...?
Thanks to everyone who has commented on this thread, it's good learning for the rest of us
This seems a good time to make a note- how we hold the glider is irrelevant. Strictly in aerodynamic terms, launching is about angle of attack, acceleration, and airspeed. The wing, and the lift it creates, is entirely separate from how you hold the glider.
BUT- you need to find a technique that works for you. You need to be able to consistently and reliably hold a proper angle of attack, accelerate while maintaining that AofA, smoothly load the glider and cleanly fly away- ideally with extra airspeed beyond stall speed.
How we approach launch -and the method we adapt to the conditions- is key to achieving what Ryan delineates. Dependent on the conditions, one technique/posture/grip may be hugely advantaged over another- and pose its own special challenges that need to be kept in consideration.
dave hopkins wrote:
New concepts in our launches should be worked out on the training hill. Even in a training glider. They slow it all down. allow us to focus on each point
Depending on the "hill"; launching from a low elevation may compress events into a narrow window and compound the landing into the launch event. Given suitable conditions, incorporating new techniques from an appropriate high launch may allow a greater safety margin. As with anything new, a progressive approach is prudent. While training gliders fly remarkably slow, it is this trait (and other associated attributes) that may not allow for the direct translation of technique to higher energy wings. This comes back around to what Ryan said about how we hold the glider- with a developed awareness of the energy in and attitude of the wing, our launch technique ideally needs to adapt in the moment to what the wing demands. With that in mind, be ready to address technique and response deficits not readily apparent with a low energy wing when migrating method to a faster wing. The opposite is just as true- especially in high wind where the virtues of a high energy wing are sorely missed.
Nicos wrote:
Now, I'd like to know when is not a good time to hold your hang strap tight on launch... anyone?
The only time I can think of is in a high wind situation, as a loose strap may give more purchase on pitch control to prevent nose-popping...?
On extended slope launches when instability is present, for the first moments of the launch I prefer to keep in contact with the control frame (similar to Tom's posture as pictured above, but marginally higher) with a tight wrap that allows for squeezing a lifting wing down. In these first few moments, as I drive the glider to flying speed, I have greater authority than if starting with wing high and strap tight. The transition to strap tight flight should be a smooth conveyance of tension from me to the harness as I continue to accelerate and guide the angle of attack. There are launches where I may keep a down tube loaded throughout the transition, as conditions recommend it over crabbing or running under the lifting wing; typically, launch is not this digital, and technique is blended.
Keep in mind that we may have greatly varied physiognomies- a tight strap launch posture may be trivial for a tall pilot, but pose a hazard for a small pilot with a large control frame. What works for one, may not for another.
I reserve tight-straps before acceleration almost exclusively for some wire assisted launches or flying floaters in light conditions; in most other circumstances, I feel it puts me unduly at the whim of air's caprice.
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