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deltaman
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:33 am    Post subject: barrels release without any tension except weight of rope.. Reply with quote #1   
Hi all,

Imagine:
You are low just after AT take off and the tug just break its weaklink and loose the tow rope. So, now, as the hangglider pilot you have to release quickly before the rope possibly hook on anything on the ground, but there is no tension anymore..

Now my question:
Is it possible to release with a barrels (protow release) without any tension except the weight of a part of the tow rope ?..

Thanks.

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gotandem
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #2   
"Is it possible to release with a barrels (protow release) without any tension except the weight of a part of the tow rope ?.. "

Most of the time. But I've had it once where the pin had bent inside the barrel from excessive tow force. My weaklink was still intact. The tug pilot's weaklink broke so I had the rope. I had to use 2 hands to get the pin out of the barrel.
No stress because I was high.
Bart

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deltaman
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #3   
Thanks for replying.
But except defect of the release.. Is the weight of a small part of the tow rope enough to use barrels with ONE hand. In france we don't use a carrabiner on the tow rope (that is an interesting weight in this case) just a ring..

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kermit
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #4   
The weight of the rope would be more than enough to pull out the pin if everything is working properly.

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peanuts
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #5   
what is the vid supposed to be demonstrating? i'm confused, again...
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Nibs
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #6   
This exact scenario happened to me on my first solo aerotow. The tug engine sputtered so the pilot gave me the rope at about 100' or so. I thought I must have broken a weak link but then I looked and saw that I still had the rope. The weight of the rope is not enough to make a barrel release work, but it isn't that big of a deal. I just grabbed the tow rope with one hand, held it steady, and pulled the barrel release with the other, problem solved. But no, I don't see how you could do it with one hand. Why would you need to do it with one hand though... it only takes about 1.5 seconds.
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deltaman
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #7   
Why I ask ? cause some french pilots aren't confident with this release for that..
I never had trouble.

A tow rope is maybe 20gr/m so 100 feet high represents 600gr (without carabiner). It's like more than 2 coke cans. It should be enough to release in tension...

What do you think?

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CHassan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #8   
I use a barrel on each shoulder. Easier to dump everything with the second barrel, than to pull out the hook knife and try to cut the line.

My primary barrel is pretty loose, and probably would work with just line tension. My secondary bridle would need help, like Nibs mentioned. Grab the rope, grab the barrel and pull them apart.

In any case I have always assume it will not work and have taken the necessary actions. (scooter towing I went thru a lot of line breaks and such.)

As I sit here going thru the motions in my head, it shouldn't take more than 4 or 5 seconds to grab the rope and pull. That is if you have a little trouble finding it. My barrels are also on a short leash so they stay pretty close to the same place regardless if being pulled forwards or draping backwards. That way I can find them easy enough.

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Nibs
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #9   
The barrels I have are VERY hard to pull... there is no way even a full length tow rope is going to offer enough resistance to make the barrel release.

I did hear about a double-way release barrel a couple of years ago. You can push or pull the barrel to release. Not sure who makes them or if they are available but it would solve the problem.
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CHassan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #10   
There are a bunch of different barrel releases. Some have thicker webbing, some thinner, some have bigger barrels bent pins, straight pins, etc...etc...

So some may, and some may not release. As I mentioned, assume they won't and it'll only take you a few seconds to drop the line.

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deltaman
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #11   
yes chassan, for me it s not a pb. But I'd like french pilots use their own weaklink on their harness and not anymore on the line. They have to use a release with a briddle, barrels or whichard which can work with pull and push (I didn't know that a pro tow release like this could exist).
I build some barrels and I saw that the breadth of the loop is important to configure the effort to release..

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gregkp1
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:13 pm    Post subject: Release that has never failed me Reply with quote #12   
Platform and scooter tow experience. Not sure if these are still being made. Perhaps Mojo gear has a few.
Peter Birren are you still on this list?? Mid west tow master.
He designed and had them manufactured. Easy simple would be real hard to make it fail.

http://www.mojosgear.com/mojos/link-knife-release-p-1029.html

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #13   
Short answer, no.
The long answer's been covered here pretty well, so I'll just point up to Nib's post Ditto

I've used those push or pull barrel releases.
Personally, I don't like them... the one I had liked to jam.
They're a great idea in theory, but I've yet to see one that I like in practice.

I'm in the "not a big deal" camp, but for those not in that camp, I'll echo the link knife. Good stuff that.

Jim
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #14   
gotandem wrote:
No stress because I was high

Well sure, dude, it's always a good idea to take a few tokes first to mellow you out, just in case, y'know, things get gnarly up there... ROFL

(Yes, I know what you actually meant...) Shocked

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deltaman
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #15   
i tried this with the barrel:
an experimental release with one hand with 120gr:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtStrzx5W0o

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kermit
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #16   
That's what I thought would happen, But I'm sure what happen to Nibs was very real

You talk funny
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red
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Release that has never failed me Reply with quote #17   
gregkp1 wrote:
Platform and scooter tow experience. Not sure if these are still being made. Perhaps Mojo gear has a few.
Peter Birren are you still on this list?? Mid west tow master.
He designed and had them manufactured. Easy simple would be real hard to make it fail.
http://www.mojosgear.com/mojos/link-knife-release-p-1029.html

Greg,

Peter Birren's award-winning LinkKnife is still in production, and available direct from:
http://www.birrendesign.com/linknife.html

"NASA purchased Linknifes for use on the X-38 Space Station Lifeboat, using four on each craft to cut away the chutes if there's a problem. The head engineer was amazed that the Linknife weighs a mere 1/4 ounce and has no moving parts except for the sliding O-ring. It was also used to cut away the parachute on landing in Project Stardust."

Mr. Green
P.S. Pete has published his new astronomy field guide, now, also.
http://www.birrendesign.com/astro.html

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peterb01
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Release that has never failed me Reply with quote #18   
gregkp1 wrote:
Platform and scooter tow experience. Not sure if these are still being made. Perhaps Mojo gear has a few.
Peter Birren are you still on this list?? Mid west tow master.
He designed and had them manufactured. Easy simple would be real hard to make it fail.

http://www.mojosgear.com/mojos/link-knife-release-p-1029.html


- - - - - - -

Hi, Greg. Hi, all.

Yes, the Linknife will work with no tow tension. I had a static towline break once that left me with 30' of 3/16" poly, smaller and lighter than an aero towline. A quick snap of my wrist and the weaklink was cut. It takes a few more seconds to set up at launch, but it works at any angle... every time. I'd be happy to answer any questions.

- Peter ("Mid west tow master"? :-) I'll take it :-)

www.birrendesign.com/linknife.html



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adi
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:40 am    Post subject: Re: barrels release without any tension except weight of rop Reply with quote #19   
deltaman wrote:
Hi all,

Imagine:
You are low just after AT take off and the tug just break its weaklink and loose the tow rope


prevention blah blah Smile

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #20   
just get a koch release and be done with it ive had one now for 3 years and its the bees knees. i pro AT and statick winch with it. and with one press of the lever even with one little finger it will spit out the line under no tension as its spring loaded and can not in anyway fail EVER. to this end i dont even have a hook knife.




Link

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