[pud]

If I could justify it to myself I would and could buy a new glider tomorrow.
But, what I would really like is some feedback from some of you guys (probably in Europe) who have been around for a while.

What I am looking for is someone with experience in flying a Kiss and now flies (say) a Discus.
What do you get?

I mean, assuming airworthiness is not an issue, and neither glider is shagged out, and, the fact that both gliders are certified to the same standard, are there any real performance benefits?

I have flown a U2 & a Sting III, all be it briefly, and neither took my breath away in terms of what I could do.

My Kiss has a good sink rate, a good glide and is not difficult to launch or land.
It also sets up and breaks down quick and easily and turns, with no effort, on a sixpence.
There are also enough hours logged on this design to be reassured that it is not likely to flip upside down or fall to bits in the sky.

On the down side I don’t like its top speed straight line stability and it is far from being the best tow glider in the world.

I can’t have a better flying time than I am having right now so it’s impossible for a new glider to be any more ‘fun’ (a popular reply to the old v new question).

I, along with others in my club, who still fly Kisses (Kissi), aren’t exactly being left behind in terms of performance when faced with the scratchy, accept anything, flatland thermal flying we do, and, in my case, this is certainly not due to me being a superior pilot.

So really, honestly and with no hype. Kiss V Discus?
Convince me.
My money is on the table.

Cheers Mike

[pud]

Oh well, not one response.
I guess I'm too old and no one else has heard of a Kiss

Or maybe I’m being too specific.
This was really an Old (but good) V New, convince me type of challenge.

[woodysr2]

Hi Pud
yes I have heard of a kiss I flew a klassik 13 the newer version of the kiss I believe.
The difference you will find if the kiss has the same charecteristics as a Klassik is the delay that you get used to when starting a turn mine had a count of three between initiating the turn and the glider actually turning.The klassik always felt like a solid and predictable glider.
The Discus is a bit more of a faff to rig to start(flexi tip wands) with but you quickly get into the swing of it.The handling is crisper and definately more responsive/lighter I have not found any need to conciously high side in a thermal.The take off and landing is as with most new gliders a non event I really like the discus and if I can actually get my act together I will get it over to Lanzarote in february.If I dont go in February I will probably end up selling all the gear as I will not have had the glider out of the garage in 2 years due to health issues.It is still as crisp as the day it left the factory less than 20 hours in 5 years.This due mainly to microlighting and a lack of available time/weather options as I am 99% gauranteed to fly the quik if I go to the airfield compared to a days hang waiting on the side of a hill here in Scotland I have amassed over 150 hours on the microlight in this time

[geoffmay]

[woodysr2]

Hi There No It is wullie From the Lanarkshire and lothians soaring club up here in the central belt of a rather windswept and bloody wet Scotland LOL

[ahurst]

I haven't "been around for a while", but I went straight from an old Magic 3 to an old Litespeed.
Between a Kiss and a Discus I would expect the difference is very small, but the likelihood is the Discus would go away from you a bit at high speed, having a bit more tension in the sail, and wider, stiffer tubes. It's all hand waving though!
Marek (who works at Avian) had a Discus before his Litespeed, and got on well towing it. I had my hands on a Kiss on Sunday de-rigging it, but didn't fly it.
They both have the one-sprog-and-a-couple-of-luff-lines design.
It could well reduce to a curve-tip versus square-tip argument.

I would save your money for something hotter later, especially if you will fly your old glider more frequently or confidently. Such a minute performance difference is not worth all that money, unless it's the hottest glider you'll ever buy.

My glider is a true grave-dodger, mylar and 11 years old, it's seen a lot of sunshine.
But I didn't lose a lot (~6km/h) against the new machines at the UK Nats, it was always my mistakes not the glider which let me down.
I've had the opportunity to buy a much newer glider, but I'd rather spend the cash taking the one I've got to fly around the world. Time is priceless after all. Maybe when I'm top 50 I'll worry about it.

[pud]

Cheers guys thanks for the feedback.

Woodsy. (At your suggestion) I put a fin on my Kiss this solved the yaw at speed problem and transformed this glider (as you said it would).
Nice to know you like your Discus and I hope you find your way into the air (freeflying) soon.

The problem I am having is that my glider, although old, does so well.
But, I busted a couple of uprights this year and replacements are getting harder and harder to get.

But what can I get to replace it without going backwards?
I’m sure I could fly anything but I don’t want a topless.
If I had had to carry one of these out of the cropped field I landed in last year the glider (and I) would still be there.

The last time I bought a new (CFX) glider there were about 8 UK manufactures and goodness knows how many around the world.

My choice now seems limited.

Ok then let’s open up a real can of worms.

Can fly anything, have money, don’t want a topless, normally fly in scratchy flatland thermals.

What should I buy with at least the performance of my old bird?

Time to sing your praises (or kick out also-rans)

[ahurst]

A Discus!
haha

Maybe you could get an Avian A-frame fitted to your Kiss?

[geoffmay]

[bisleybob]

few points for you mike.

1.
even though its not from me, i can help as Paul W said on this topic at corton after being a test pilot for aeros in the past and flying wills discuss that same weekend. "i highly recomend the discuss its one of the best put together wings out there, perfectly trimmed. if someone with no previous experience of them flew one then say flew a Kiss (he did use this example) they would be blown away by the discuss and wonder why anyone bothers with bloddy airwave gliders, i know mathews loves them but he is in the minority." his words.

2.
there are 3 in the club try them, both sizes and try them a few times, it may cost you a beer or two but what a privalidged position to be in.

3
as another option that moyes XT on the forum is a lovley wing and not a bad price. ps i can hire one for £80 for a year.

4 lastly the merlin in the hanger is glenns and said we could try it if we wanted. paul w and sean both rate this wing, another possible option.

but as keith and paul L always say fly as many as you can then choose. having said that you are welcome on my eagle anytime, thats if you want to remember what easy flying and tons of glide are

if i were buying now i'd buy dicuss i think. paul l can afford any gider he can dream of and thats what he baught.

[andyh]

which has the cheapest uprights Mike?

[pud]

[bisleybob]

ask for a go on said's sport 2 aswell, and there are plenty of rio's in the club, but when we flew in strong conditions the other day stevem reported alot of bar pressure which i didnt have, it was also twitchy on launch where mine was settled. and the other thing that i noticed that day was that will caught me on the upwing leg on his discuss even though i was flying quick and had a good head start. thats the lack on vb for ya.

starting now fly everything. cant wait to see you on the KPL he he

dont know if a malabu would do as your only wing. think i may be able to get a sonic on loan too or an airborne C4 topless.