[serdar]

what pilot rating is needed for fling a rigid wing?

[CHassan]

You can learn on a rigid wing, but the cost of each mistake takes a heavier toll on the wallet. They cost more, but are reported to be easier to fly.

[Piotrc]

Not sure on Pilot rating required in the USA, but in Australia i beleive you can do it on an intermediate ticket.. (safepro 4??)
The are definatly easier to fly and much more relaxing as you are expending less energy to steer the thing.
But yes, every mistake does cost ALOT more beans.
Funny how the word ALOT looks similar to ATOS
They are also more fragile in transport.

[gasdive]

Does anyone know what's involved in a conversion? Or do you just buy one and away you go?

=:)

[Piotrc]

No conversion.
Just buy and fly!

[Vince]

There is no rating required for a rigid wing. Depending on the model, I would say that a hang 2 could safely fly a rigid. They don't parachute like a training glider due to their higher aspect ratio, which is why I could not recommend learning on one. The early model Atos as well as the Exxtacy are very easy to fly. My VR when set up for racing is a hang 4 glider. It is much faster than a topless flex wing with very light to no bar pressure at all speeds. Most high time topless flex wing pilots will PIO my VR on their first flight. I can set it up so that the tail and flaps stay on about half way and it will become a hang 2 glider.

Because rigid wings are so much easier to fly than a flex wing, you spend much less time learning to fly the glider and much more time learning to soar. You can buy a used rigid for less than a new flex wing and get better performance than that flex wing. I know a few pilots who are on their third new flex wing in the same time I am on the same rigid wing.

Flex wing glider performance starts to degrade after the first flight and keeps degrading every flight. No top comp pilot will fly the same glider for more than a year. This is due to sail stretch since the sail of a flex wing carries the weight of the glider. A rigid wing has ribs and spars like an aircraft that carry the weight so their is no sail stretch. My VR has the same performance is had 6 years ago.

Vince

[flyhigh013]

[noman3]

[remmoore]

"Rigids may 'handle' better, but it will take just as long to learn when to do what control inputs... and because of the higher performance, it can take LONGER to learn to accurately land them (you can't fudge it by pulling in, like on a single surface flexy)"

Ryan,

I'd agree with a bit of your statement, but disagree with more. Control inputs on a rigid are as basic as they come. There's no PIO, yaw, or high-siding a rigid. J-turn inputs, bumping, and cross-controlling are all non-issues. Landings are easier on a rigid than most all flexes. I can "fudge it by pulling in" as good or better than a Falcon. The flaps do that for me, and I'm still amazed how short I can land.

Rigids tend to cut through turbulence better and they only require the simplest inputs to fly straight. Every time I see an on-board vid of a flex-pilot, I notice the countless tiny corrections he is making just to keep flying straight. We rigid pilots call it the "wiggle-jiggle dance" and we don't have to do that anymore. It makes flying a rigid too easy. Learing how to fly a rigid is basically about unlearning all the wiggle-jiggle moves needed to fly a high-perf flex. I've heard flex pilots say of their first rigid flight that the glider seemed disconnected from control inputs at first, until they realized that the gider ignores all the wiggle-jiggle

The only real drawback in landing control IMO is learning the limitations of roll reversal. Some rigids are better than others, but I've never seen or flown a rigid that was as snappy as a flex. Getting used to setting up a rigid landing in a tight field requires experience - but landing in tight fields is a more advanced manuver anyway.

Last weekend, I landed in light switchy conditions with a wide variety of flex pilots - from T2's to Falcons. I had probably the best landing, and it was mostly thanks to the ease of landing my VX. I'm not the world's best lander, but that glider makes me look good - most of the time.

RM

[pjwings]

Hey, just out of curiosity let me ask a question. I remember reading that because you don't have the same kind of pitch pressure/feedback on a rigid that it is tricky to time the landing flare. Is this true? If so, what technique do you use to time your flares?

[remmoore]

"...what technique do you use to time your flares?"

Hmmm...do you use pitch pressure to time you flair? I've never done it that way. For me it's always been about that "settling" feeling the glider gets just at stall speed. There's no difference in that feeling from any glider I've ever flown - rigid or flex.

RM

[blindrodie]

Stall is stall is stall is stall!

You just have to learn to feel for it and sometimes it can be tricky. That's why it's so important to do A LOT of landing practice before you do anything new. In most cases that means staying with a lower performing wing for a number of hours and flights.

[pjwings]

Interesting! I do use pitch pressure... more specifically the "Trim plus One" method that I learned from watching Jim Rooney's videos here on the .org. I have also tried using the settling feeling you describe but have found that at that point I'm usually a bit late for a full flare and a no stepper. perhaps I'm not sensing the settle early enough? Maybe it's something about my WW Eagle?

Anyway, good to know. If I ever find myself in ground effect on a rigid wing I'll be prepared

[blindrodie]

[pjwings]

Agreed

[flyhigh013]

[remmoore]

[flyhigh013]

[johnpeace]

[Ib_local]

[quote
.. and because of the higher performance, it can take LONGER to learn to accurately land them (you can't fudge it by pulling in, like on a single surface flexy)

I dont find this to be true at all.

I fly a Aeros Phantom, and it is without a doubt one of the easiest landing gliders I have ever flown. With full flaps, it lands like a falcon..if I think I am a little short..drop the flaps...extend glide and then back on to land. Piece of cake. Pulling in with full flaps on has me coming down like a single surface glider...its EASY to land.


" Most people buy new stuff 'cause they want new stuff, not 'cause they wore out their current stuff "

I don't agree with this statement either. It is a very well established fact that flex wings bag out and lose performance after a season or two, depending on use..or how many times you loop it .


" There is a little transition from flexy to rigid. "

Well.....kind of I guess....the operative word here is "little".

My story....I purchased an Aeros Phantom after not having flown HG for 14 years. The last glider I flew before the Phantom was a Sensor 510 B model.

I went straight to a mountain site, mid day and flew it. Had a perfect launch, kicked right into my harness with zero problem and then proceeded to get nearly 1K above every other glider flying that day…which included a high time pilot on a T2C.

It took all of about 4 or 5 turns in a thermal to dial into this glider and feel completely comfortable flying it. I got a little over an hour air time and decided to go out and land. The landing was in zero wind…my timing was not “perfect” but I had a good landing, didn’t drop it, or wack it. That was my first flight in 14 years!

The next time out..I had a no stepper.

I’m not an exceptional pilot..or a comp pilot, and consider myself to be an average rec pilot.

These things are EASY to fly…EASY to land..but very costly to repair in a relative sense when compared to a Flex.

So…from my point of view..when any pilot out there is no longer breaking things and is flying with some consistency..confidence and is making consistently good landings..then moving to a RW should be no problem.

Personally, I wont go back to flying a flex.. I see no good reason too. A good used RW can be had at ½ the price of a new high performance flex, and it will outperform the flex in just about every aspect for a very long time.

Barry