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knumbknuts 3 thumbs up


Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Posts: 5004 Location: Carlsbad, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:22 am Post subject: More Torrey Shenanigans... |
#1 |
Sorry for yet another Torrey post, but don't blame me for the near endless supply of attempted dirty tricks with USHPA complicity....
Look at these shenigans... There are 3 people running for RD in Region 3. First is David Jebb, the owner of Torrey Pines, who has a rep for being anti HG. Second is Bob Kuczewski, founder of the Torrey Hawks, a biwingwal pilot who campaigns for fairness there.
The third guy, Pete Michelmore, is "running" as well, but openly endorses his "opponent" Jebb in the USHPA-sent email. Possibly, Pete has second thoughts about having the position, but why wouldn't he just withdrawal? More likely, it is some wiley scheme by Jebb and a friend to split the anti-Jebb vote.
While I have my doubts about the efficacy of this strategy, I have to wonder why USHPA allowed the endorsement within the email they sent. I would think they would know that Torrey Pines is a very sore subject for So Cal HG pilots and not allow one candidate to endorse another within their official communication to voters. They might say: "The candidate can say whatever he wants, it's a free country," but that notion can be dispelled by taking it to its logical limit. Michelmore could have taken the space to profess his undying love for underage sheep. I doubt that USHPA would have forwarded those sentiments along, though they would have been less offensive to this frustrated Hang 3 (as he drives by Torrey seeing P0s in the air and himself on the ground).
Sigh.
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From: US Hang Gliding & Paragliding Assn. [mailto:daemon@ushpa.aero]
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:13 AM
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: From USHPA: USHPA election--Statements by candidates in region 3
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc.
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To: All Region 3 USHPA Members
From: Mark Forbes, USHPA Elections Committee Chair
Date: September 29, 2008
Subject: USHPA election--Statements by candidates in Region 3
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The following are statements by candidates for regional director in region 3. These statements do not represent the opinion of USHPA, and they have not been edited or checked for accuracy. They are provided as a service to the candidates and the members of the region as part of the election process.
Mark G. Forbes
USHPA Elections Committee
= = = =Statement by Bob Kuczewski= = = =
Members of Region 3,
My name is Bob Kuczewski, and I am an H4/P4 pilot from the San Diego area. I flew my first hang glider flights in 1978 and my first paraglider flights in 1990. But I didn't take up these sports seriously until 2004. I also have a private pilot's license (with a seaplane rating) from the late 70's, and I've flown sailplanes and RC models as well.
I hold a Bachelor of Science degree in Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering, and I've worked as an engineer for almost 25 years.
I've published numerous papers in the field of artificial intelligence and I hold a United States patent on an interactive learning system for kids. You can read my pilot profile in the August 2007 edition of Hang Gliding & Paragliding Magazine.
In 2007 I founded the Torrey Hawks Hang Gliding Club, and we've grown from 7 members to almost 130 members in that short time. I have also been a supporting club member at Sylmar, Crestline, Elsinore, Soboba, Horse, Little Black, Torrey, and others. I have written letters, spoken at meetings, and made financial contributions to help preserve many of those sites. I have worked for two years to bring the multi-wingual Torrey Pines Soaring Council back together, and I am the only hang glider or paraglider pilot to attend all of the Council's meetings in those two years.
I want to be your regional director because I want all pilots in our region (both hang gliding and paragliding) to have better representation at USHPA.
Here are some things that I will do (including many that I've already done):
I will work toward fairness for all pilots at all sites.
I will support the rights of all pilots to fly safely at all sites.
I will write letters and attend meetings for site preservation.
I will ensure that all local clubs get fair representation at USHPA.
I will maintain an open door policy for all comments from all pilots.
I will support hang gliding and paragliding fairly and equally.
I will represent pilots and businesses fairly and equally.
More importantly, here's what I won't do:
I will NOT bully pilots.
I will NOT suspend flying privileges without due process.
I will NOT endorse USHPA SOP changes that threaten individual rights.
I will NOT use my Regional Directorship to obtain awards for my own business.
I will NOT support disparate site ratings (P0/H4) for monetary benefit.
I will NOT prevent qualified tandem pilots from flying at any sites.
I will NOT put business interests ahead of pilot's interests.
I am passionate about both flying and fairness, but there's far more to say on these topics than I can squeeze into 500 words. Here are some additional resources:
Statements and Endorsements: torreyhawks.org/R3
Write to me any time: bobk@bluebottle.com
Call me any time, for any reason (or any challenge): 858-204-7499
Most of all, please vote. USHPA is only your club if you speak with your ballot.
Thank you,
Bob Kuczewski
= = = =Statement by David Jebb= = = =
Greetings to all my fellow region three pilots. It has been my pleasure to serve as your regional director for the past two terms and I look forward with your support to serve you and our membership for one more term. I have been involved in the sport of hang gliding and paragliding for the past twenty years and the flight director of the Torrey Pines Gliderport for the past twelve years. We are at a critical juncture in our organization's growth and development. As your regional director my focus for the coming term will be to:
Look for innovative ways to attract and maintain membership.
Seek out more effective ways to minimize accidents and injuries.
Consider ways to protect and develop current and future flying sites.
While considering your selection of a regional director look for that one person who is willing to bring communities together and not divide them.
Look for a leadership based on principles and not finger licking to see which way the political winds are blowing. And finally someone whose love and dedication is based upon the preservation and future of sports aviation. I hope to serve you for one more term and thank you!
David Jebb, B.S., M.B.A.
Flight Director
Torrey Pines Gliderport
2800 Torrey Pines Scenic Drive
San Diego, CA 92037
www.flytorrey.com
= = = =Statement by Pete Michelmore= = = =
I would like to endorse Dave Jebb as Regional Director for Region 3 again this year.
Dave has done an outstanding job for the members of region 3 over the years and I feel is the best candidate for the job. I have known Dave for over 15 years now, and he is not only an exceptionally nice person, he is fair, and trustworthy. His character is as flawless as his friendship to his fellow pilots. Dave is truly a born leader and I'm proud to have him lead Region 3 as USHPA Director again this year.
Pete Michelmore
USHPA Master Tandem Instructor / Examiner Gravity Hawaii
44-116 Kauinohea Pl.
Kaneohe, HI. 96744
(808) 753-1027
www.gravityhawaii.com
MGF/rab
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Last edited by knumbknuts on Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jason 3 thumbs up


Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 7532 Location: Stapleton, Colorado
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: |
#2 |
disgusting
it should be noted where this Pete guy got his ratings _________________ TSA, DHS, NDAA and SOPA Seig Heil! |
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sg 3 thumbs up


Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 11030
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:56 am Post subject: |
#3 |
Blatant manipulation of the system.
Running for RD just so you can put up a free BILLBOARD for the other RD.
WTH are people thinking?
It's so obvious what is going on here, I cant believe they let this be printed. Who's asleep at the wheel? _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
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Imaposer 3 thumbs up


Joined: 09 Aug 2007 Posts: 1041 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: |
#4 |
Forgive my ignorance, I know nothing about nor have I kept up with the saga of Torrey Pines since it is so far removed from my world. But honestly since I am now a HG pilot I guess anything that affects HGing affects me so I need to brush up on the Torrey Pines issue. Being that I'm not in region 3 there isn't much I can do to help but at least I should be more aware of the issues.
What is about the site that makes it H4? Has it always been so? What experience level/rating is required for PG pilots? If there is a disparity between the rating requirements why is it so? What is the rationale behind the reported preferential treatment of PG pilots? Is this a privately owned facility?
Sorry but I don’t have the time to search back through and read all the TP thread so if anyone can explain the issue in a nutshell or link a previous thread that does so, it would be great.
I'm not trying to start another "basement bound" thread but I am curious about why all the hoopla.
Again not meant to come across as being anti-PG and this post isn’t meant to really be about PG but, I will say that we don’t have any PGers at my site and I’m really, really glad. Well, one of the instructors is biwingual and I’ve seen him fly his once in totally calm, sled run conditions, and this past weekend we had an out-of-towner that came and flew his in ridge soarable conditions. It was not something that made me feel all warm and fuzzy. I don’t know the politics involved but I must say that if the tables were turned and we had a prohibition or serious restrictions of flying PGers at my site I wouldn’t be unhappy about it. We already have a fairly short length of soarable ridge and traffic can get pretty tight without those huge blobs of fabric and lines floating about. |
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sg 3 thumbs up


Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 11030
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: |
#5 |
The site is owned by the city of san diego and rented to a PG school for free. Its a tax payer owned site.
P0's learn to fly there on a radio, but an H4 is required to fly.
The concessionaire (who owns the PG school) pretty much gets to set any rules he wants to. So its P0/H4.
There is history behind the H4 rating but considering P0's fly there its pretty clear this could be changed by the concessionaire if he wanted to, but he doesnt. Keeping HG to a minimum is in his business interest.
He has banned Bob K, Pres of the Torrey Hawks from flying there but refuses to give any documented reason. Dont think its legal, you cant keep a tax payer off a tax payer paid for site, but he does it anyway. He's an ex cop who likes to call his cop buddies.
Jebb has been known to harass pilots, including me in the past. He even punched an HG pilot in the face years ago for speaking his mind.
Now Jebb is gaming the system by having a buddy run for RD just so he can tell everyone to vote for Jebb
Sickening.
Thats the gist of it. _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
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Jason 3 thumbs up


Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 7532 Location: Stapleton, Colorado
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: |
#6 |
we could all vote for pete
force him into office  _________________ TSA, DHS, NDAA and SOPA Seig Heil! |
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knumbknuts 3 thumbs up


Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Posts: 5004 Location: Carlsbad, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: |
#7 |
| This stands in contrast to Mark questioning each nominee to make sure they want the position. |
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sg 3 thumbs up


Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 11030
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: |
#8 |
Someone probably lied to Mark, said yes yes yes to all the questions so he could get his free ad campaign in the mag for Jebb. Its just so transparent I cant believe ushpa allowed the system to be rigged like this.
Bob K should be allowed a response in the magazine for equal time since Jebb just got 2X _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
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knumbknuts 3 thumbs up


Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Posts: 5004 Location: Carlsbad, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:28 am Post subject: |
#9 |
| sg wrote: |
Someone probably lied to Mark, said yes yes yes to all the questions so he could get his free ad campaign in the mag for Jebb. Its just so transparent I cant believe ushpa allowed the system to be rigged like this.
Bob K should be allowed a response in the magazine for equal time since Jebb just got 2X |
The mass email had Mark's name and initials on it, as if he signed off on it.
Mark's a pretty fair minded guy, but his paradigm on this one is much different than mine. |
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TomGalvin 3 thumbs up


Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 3547 Location: ............... Pagosa Springs, Colorado
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:39 am Post subject: |
#10 |
Do you guys really believe that Torrey is the only site in the World with local politics?
Please send this to the basement and keep the front page free of turf wars. _________________ Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization.
Charles Lindbergh |
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sg 3 thumbs up


Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 11030
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: |
#11 |
When crestline/marshall had home encroachment issues, we talked about that too. Any HG site with issues needs attention.
Further, this is about exposing games Ushpa RD's play so people can make an educated voted. It applies to all of souther cali.
This is in line with this sites mission statement. _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
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TomGalvin 3 thumbs up


Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 3547 Location: ............... Pagosa Springs, Colorado
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: |
#12 |
| sg wrote: |
| When crestline/marshall had home encroachment issues, we talked about that too. Any HG site with issues needs attention. |
The difference is in the type of attention. The other site threads are constructive. These Torrey threads usually just become ugly mud slinging. The title of this thread set the usual tone. _________________ Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization.
Charles Lindbergh |
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BubbleBoy 1 thumbs up


Joined: 31 Jan 2008 Posts: 3002
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: |
#13 |
| TomGalvin wrote: |
Do you guys really believe that Torrey is the only site in the World with local politics?
Please send this to the basement and keep the front page free of turf wars. |
I'll never understand how some folks are willing to bury fundamental unfairness at *any* site or situation.
Status quo, look away, head in sand, it's not my problem, bullies win.
Shame, shame.
JB
PS: Not a Torrey pilot (not in years) and not in that region -- just recognize self serving cronyism when I see it. |
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AIRTHUG 3 thumbs up


Joined: 09 Aug 2007 Posts: 6159 Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: |
#14 |
I'm glad I don't live in Region 3, it looks like it'll be a tough one to decide who to vote for this year
NOT.  _________________ Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/AIRTHUG |
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TomGalvin 3 thumbs up


Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 3547 Location: ............... Pagosa Springs, Colorado
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: |
#15 |
| BubbleBoy wrote: |
Status quo, look away, head in sand, it's not my problem, bullies win.
Shame, shame. |
From an outsider looking at it, all sides are playing dirty tricks. I am not ashamed to ask for civilized behavior, and rational discussion of issues. A person should be able to make a point without melodrama. Rove and Murdoch should not be our role models. _________________ Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization.
Charles Lindbergh |
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sg 3 thumbs up


Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 11030
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: |
#16 |
Well then.... lets get constructive. Lets call our RD's
Ooooops their the problem. Now what?
Lets get someone else elected right?
Lets show people why someone else should get elected.
TA DA! KK shows us why in this thread. Where is the issue?
Should we just bury this, look the other way, and let them get away with this again??? *sigh* _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
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AIRTHUG 3 thumbs up


Joined: 09 Aug 2007 Posts: 6159 Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:07 am Post subject: |
#17 |
| BubbleBoy wrote: |
PS: Not a Torrey pilot (not in years) and not in that region -- just recognize self serving cronyism when I see it. |
Just so you know John, Tom learned to fly at Ellenville. His instructor is banned from the launch and LZ there. Tom is now working with his instructor (Tom became an instructor himself) to help new students in the air. Tom, along with the new class of fledglings, have to hike up a steep rocky path to launch from the knob right next to the 'Ellenville" launch... all because of a long-time feud between the land owner (Tony) and Tom's instructor (Greg)... the feud is so old no one even knows why anymore...
I think what Tom is saying, and correct me if I'm wrong Tom, is that complaining on the front page doesn't look good for people that don't know the situation, don't care about the situation, or most importantly don't know anything about flying and just found the site while Google-ing 'hang gliding'.
We have to remember that as this site grows, we are all becoming embassedors of our sport. I'm not saying we should only talk about happy things, that would border on propaganda...
I'm not saying Tom is right or wrong on this one... I see both sides and agree with both sides... but I don't think everyone thinks about these things when they post things that show up on the front page...
-Ryan _________________ Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/AIRTHUG
Last edited by AIRTHUG on Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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knumbknuts 3 thumbs up


Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Posts: 5004 Location: Carlsbad, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:09 am Post subject: |
#18 |
| TomGalvin wrote: |
| BubbleBoy wrote: |
Status quo, look away, head in sand, it's not my problem, bullies win.
Shame, shame. |
From an outsider looking at it, all sides are playing dirty tricks. I am not ashamed to ask for civilized behavior, and rational discussion of issues. A person should be able to make a point without melodrama. Rove and Murdoch should not be our role models. |
Let me get this straight, I write "more torrey pines shenanigans" and you say I am not being civilized, comparing me to Rove and Murdoch? You are accusing me of dirty tricks? You say I am being melodramatic?
Time for the ignore button to be put to use. I recommend that tom galvin and knumbknuts each go up at least one notch on the ignored users list. This is about Torrey Pines and I refuse to let it get personal. |
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AIRTHUG 3 thumbs up


Joined: 09 Aug 2007 Posts: 6159 Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: |
#19 |
(trying to change the subject back to Torrey)
Would everyone still be upset if it was strictly a H4/P4 site, and it was fair both ways? _________________ Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/AIRTHUG |
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knumbknuts 3 thumbs up


Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Posts: 5004 Location: Carlsbad, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: |
#20 |
| flyhigh013 wrote: |
(trying to change the subject back to Torrey)
Would everyone still be upset if it was strictly a H4/P4 site, and it was fair both ways? |
That would mollify me, but not affect the Torrey Hawks. Actually, hang 3 rights are not on the Hawk's official agenda. The Hawks are more about equal rights and treatment for all pilots, regardless of rating.
It mostly is about how Jebb is accused of being verbally and sometimes physically abusive and kicked Dave Beardslee off the site (and then Bob) without due process. It's also about how Torrey is a taxpayer owned site with a zero dollar lease being run by a guy who behaves in a manner that is allegedly in conflict with the lease (which requires that the public have unfettered access to the site and that he behave courteously, among other things). |
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