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Mrsposer
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Posts: 2101
Location: Georgia
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 Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: |
 #21 |
I'm so glad to see you're training again astroboy.  Thanks for the detailed write-up of your experiences.
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Imaposer
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Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 1041
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: |
#22 |
Hang in there Astroboy. Don't get disheartened, people learn at different rates even if they haven't had a bad scare or injury. Much of what we learn in our training really doesn't come naturally. For example, most of us learned when we were young that if we ran at full speed down a hill we were probably going to bust our ass. If you were going to run down a hill it was probably best to look where you're going, etc. Now you're having to run hard, down a hill, while looking straight ahead at the horizon.  That is not something that comes naturally to many people. And that's just one issue.
MrsP has had her share of difficulties as well, and she had a bad scare early on too which has hindered her progress a great deal. I've spent a LOT of time on the T-hills with her so, short of being an instructor, I've probably seen more students on the hills than a lot of people. LO is a very busy school and we have spent many, many days on the T-hills, and I can tell you that the problems you are describing are very, very common among newer students. Some students come out and get it straight away but many others have the same problems you're having to greater or lesser degrees.
So, what I'm trying to say is just hang in there, enjoy the training process itself, don't rush it and IT WILL COME. 
Good luck Bro, and keep the write-ups coming. |
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hiflioz
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 826
Location: south australia
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
#23 |
| FormerFF wrote: |
| It's so good to hear you are back in the air after your injury last year. And about that deciding when you've had enough for the day: when I was in training, I always left when I felt I was good for one more flight. It was much better for me to take one too few flights than one too many. Running down that hill with a glider is tiring, and tired people make mistakes. |
Excellent advice, above. Also Red's about having a tandem, so you can get that cross-controlling fixed in an environment where you are comfortable and can focus not on fear, but on the control issues. One thing my instructors told me when I tensed up was to wriggle my fingers, thereby ensuring I had a light touch on the DTs or basebar rather than the white-knuckle death-grip.
And as to those fears and uncertainties, Astroboy, they're normal and natural for any new pilot, not least one who has been injured. I'm a relatively timid pilot and for me, driving out to the flying sites each day I was learning (it took me EIGHT MONTHS!), the fear was almost overwhelming. My stomach would roil, I'd have to pee not once but several times before my flights. Why was I subjecting myself to this, I wondered each time I came out? It was crazy, surely? Did I possess masochistic tendencies of which I'd previously been unaware? But of course, it was because, when my feet left the ground, the exhilaration outweighed the fear (even if only slightly at first  ) . It was addictive, I HAD to fly. And over time, the exhilaration part got bigger and bigger and the fear part got smaller and smaller. The exhilaration is STILL getting bigger, even after seven years and hundreds of hours! The fact that you returned to flying in spite of your accident and fear, tells me you have the bird gene too, whether you like it or not! 
Your instructor will look after you well and, after you get your licence, flying OFTEN, getting those first 15 or 20 hours up within a short a time as possible, with lots of solid landings, will help muscle memory and help you improve and gain confidence, too. I find that nerves are often worse after a "long" break (that's a fortnight for me  ). I still feel apprehensive at new sites, or in a different glider, or in challenging conditions, but this is normal, healthy and life-preserving. I deal with it by getting a thorough site briefing, planning approaches ahead of time, walking the LZ if possible, watching other pilots launch first etc. These are things that ensure that my time in the air will not be spent worrying about the landing to come, so that I can relax and enjoy the flight.
It's common to be fearful at this stage of your flying, but it will diminish and pass in time. Enjoy the learning, for in flying the journey is every bit as rewarding as any destination.
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Helen
Falcon1 170, Fun 190, Malibu 188, Malibu 166, Shark 144, Litesport3, Adv, GT, SO |
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Astroboy2001
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Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 256
Location: Approx. 40km NNE of Stanwell Park (Sydney)
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:10 pm Post subject: |
#24 |
4 Sept 2008 - a whole lot of theory
"Everywhere you go, always take the weather with you" - Crowded House
Thanks for the further great replies people. The funny thing is I don't really think of it as fear, but more as a hesitancy to get myself high in the air or going too fast close to the ground before I can control the thing properly, i.e. preservation! And the lack of full control is from my perspective due simply to incomplete skill development, something I hope to remedy with more practice. If it takes more time than normal, so be it. My instructor is still talking about the few people he gets to a certain point and then says "sorry that's all I can teach you" because they just can't learn it properly because of a mental block. He hasn't said that I'm one of those (and how can anyone know after just a few days) but I hope I'm not given up on too soon. I can handle a few scares in the air, and a few rough landings (and hopefully I know now how to minimise injuries in those landings), and even the though of it taking more time and money than I'd hoped. But the possibility of being someone who just can't learn this - now THAT scares the crap out of me 
But back to the reports, or rather lack of. In short, the weather has truly sucked today, and the worst of it was that a couple of times it seemed it might be OK to do some flying when the wind backed off a bit, only to pick up again when we had decided where we were going and what we were going to do. Tandem flights were on the cards for a while, and then some more dune gooning. But the closest we got to some action was half setting up a glider on the top of a dune in a screaming easterly wind getting sand blasted, then realising we were kidding ourselves and packing it up again.
We ended up doing 2 sessions of theory either side of our vain attempts to find flyable conditions, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. The good news is that we should knock off the rest tomorrow, and then probably take the written test. I am pretty sure that after that I'll be driving back to Sydney for the weekend, because the weather forecast for the next 3 days sucks. I'm off work until Thursday - with a bit of luck there might be some flying to be done early next week.
Meanwhile, I'll try to fill my mind with positive thoughts of achieving something eventually
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Dawson
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Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 297
Location: Lake Macquarie, Oz
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:13 am Post subject: |
#25 |
| Astroboy2007 wrote: |
| Meanwhile, I'll try to fill my mind with positive thoughts of achieving something eventually |
Astroboy, that'a definately the right thing to do, but you can go one step further.
You probably find that you are thinking over and over agin the events of the last few days each evening. It'll really help for you to visualise your launch - flight - landing procedures, don't just remember the ones you did, especially the ones you didn't do perfectly, but lay there in bed at night and picture yourself standing at launch. In your mind, pick up the glider, feel it. Picture yourself balancing it and double checking that the wings are level and theat the pitch is set correctly, then lean into it and start your launch run. Get if flying, then fly it down to a landing.
Feel how it feels to control it in the air. Feel how it is to swing your weight to one side and feel the glider turn, then feel how it is to get the wings level again and flying straight.
Feel how it is to pull the bar in and speed up a little for landing, then feel how it is to nail the perfect flare.
DO NOT picture problems. If your mind throws something at you that would produce a problem with your flight take assertive control back of your mind IMMEDIATELY and fly right. Take satisfaction from the good flight.
Do this over and over and over. There have been studies that show that visualisation of sports practice can actually be as good practice as actually doing it. Wheter you get that level of advancement from your visualisation or not, so long as you are only picturing yourself doing everything right, it can't hurt, and you just might that the next time you step up to the top of the dune with a glider balanced on your shoulders, you will just feel that bit more confident and may even have that bit better control.
Dawson
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Astroboy2001
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Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 256
Location: Approx. 40km NNE of Stanwell Park (Sydney)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:24 am Post subject: |
#26 |
It's funny you say that - because I have been doing a bit of that. I've heard of "creative visualisation" before and probably heard of the same studies you mentioned. Before I started my training I visualised flying well and flying solo many times, the difference now is that I have got some experience of the feel of the glider in the air which was impossible to just imagine correctly beforehand - so now I can actually visualise the feelings and corrective movements more realistically. I have done a few imaginary flights the last couple of nights in the way you said but perhaps with one difference - I've re-run the times when I started to drift or bank off course but mentally controlled and corrected it and either kept flying or made a good landing - as opposed to the somewhat flaky landings I made in reality. I've also started to visualise getting a bit higher and making good deliberate turns. It can only help I suppose.
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relate2
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Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 3391
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:29 am Post subject: |
#27 |
Further to what Dawson said, he is definitely on the right track. It has been shown that your subconscious mind does not know the difference between imagination and reality.
I hear some scoff at that, try this little experiment. Have someone run you through this little exercise. Get comfortable, close your eyes and have someone speak to you about visualising a plump, juicy, lemon. Then cutting the lemon in half, holding the dripping lemon in your hand, bring it closer and closer to your face, smell the lemony odour, then bite right into the lemon and suck on the juice.
For most people their body will respond with saliva production as if they just bit into a real lemon. Your body is reacting as though there is a real lemon in your mouth.
Visualise your launches, flying and landings as Dawson said and when the time comes to physically launch fly and land your mind will say I have done this hundreds of times before, the tension will be much reduced and your launches, flying, landings will be much more improved.
I speak from experience using this NLP technique, not in hang gliding and it works wonders.
Cheers
Robert
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Mrsposer
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Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 2101
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:11 am Post subject: |
#28 |
I also agree about visualising your flights. But, I even take it one step further. I will also do it on the training hills before I launch. I actually go through my tasks in my mind while using my body to simulate the movements. I also had a problem with cross controlling recently. It drove me insane because I knew what to do. I just couldn't get my body to do it. I went up for a tandem and my instructor put me into an upright postion just to simulate the training hills and my early flights. I had more time to focus on what I was doing and time to think about how to turn properly. The next day on the hills I had almost no cross controlling issues. I said out loud what my task was and at times would even say things out loud during flight to help me do them.
Everything will come together for you, just like it did for me, you just have to keep at it. Good luck!!
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Sky_Walker
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Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 763
Location: Trenton, Ga
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:43 am Post subject: |
#29 |
Hang in there Astroboy,
When I first started my training I treated the control bar like the flying trapeze. I'd run down the hill and leap on the control bar and roll all the way down the hill. It takes time and like Imaposer said, its pretty common with alot of students I've watched.
The best advice I can give is try to have someone video tape your flights and watch them over and over again. From a different perspective and not in the heat of the moment its very easy to see for yourself what your doing right and what your doing wrong.
Be patient and fly safe. |
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Imaposer
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Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 1041
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:51 am Post subject: |
#30 |
| Sky_Walker wrote: |
Hang in there Astroboy,
The best advice I can give is try to have someone video tape your flights and watch them over and over again. From a different perspective and not in the heat of the moment its very easy to see for yourself what your doing right and what your doing wrong.
Be patient and fly safe. |
That is very good advice! Someone telling you what you're doing is one thing, what you feel like you're doing is another thing, but once you actually see yourself doing it you'll go, "DOH" . It can also help to review the videos with your instructor so they can explain things in real time. |
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naturewoo
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Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 138
Location: kitty hawk
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: |
#31 |
| dont let the bar out to lift off. Keep the bar in and keep running. Sounds like you are slowing down in order to become airborne, that could explain why you are having roll issues at takeoff... |
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NV-TRAILS
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 43
Location: Carson City, NV
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: |
#32 |
| Keep at it - it took me 6 months and we set up without flying more than we flew. I had a 1 hour and 20 minutes flight last month. In which I flew over a helicopter and thermalled with a hawk. That made all the work worth it. |
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Astroboy2001
3 thumbs up
Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 256
Location: Approx. 40km NNE of Stanwell Park (Sydney)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject: |
#33 |
| naturewoo wrote: |
| dont let the bar out to lift off. Keep the bar in and keep running. Sounds like you are slowing down in order to become airborne, that could explain why you are having roll issues at takeoff... |
Yeah that's what we've been doing on a normal day, but Wednesday had so much wind that if we were running forward we actually had to pull the bar in quite a long way to stay on the ground, way above trim speed. Letting the bar out halfway to trim lifted us off and we flew very slowly forward or hovered. Letting it out to trim got us higher and quite often we started to fly backwards, at which point we'd pull in more and stop, so most of the time we were in the air, our airspeed was quite a way above trim.
I realise what you're saying and that this does apply most of the time. We were just doing what the instructor told us to, for the conditions and for what we were trying to achieve. He had someone who was more advanced than us running into the wind all the way to the bottom of the hill with the bar pulled way in and not flying (I think to correct some subtle thing with launch technique). That would have been hard work!
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oden
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Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 78
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: |
#34 |
To eliminate the mental block/s try using Emotional Freedom Technique, www.emofree.com. It's quick, easy and free to learn and you may find your problem disappear in one minute...literally. Many people have overcome extreme problems very quickly. I haven't went back and read anything about your crash but it does seem from what you have said so far that this could stand a real good chance at being one of Gary's one minute wonders.
Something to think about...does the crash remind you of anything that happened to you in the past. If it seems like EFT hasn't worked focus on what I just asked above. I have been reading Gary's newletter for the past three or four years and the real problem may go back before the crash and the crash is similiar to something you experienced previously in life and your mind is trying to keep you from going through the pain again. If you don't get rid of/neutralize the core issue/original problem than the problem is still there. Once the core issue is resolved the problem will disappear instantly. It's all about finding the TRUE core issue.
Another thing, once the core issue is resolved, whether it's the crash last year or something earlier in life, don't be surprised at how quickly things change. Like I said it can happen in as little as one minute and the frustration can disappear very quickly. It might suprise you how fast the problem/frustration goes away.
If you find yourself asking if it worked or not, keep tapping. Depending on how well you remember the crash and how emotional you are toward the memory of the crash will decide on how well you will know if it worked. If the emotional intensitiy drops down to zero/very low number than you have taken care of that problem. If after going back out to the hill you find yourself still having problems than you automatically know the problem goes back further than the crash/wasn't about the crash to start with...keep digging.[/url] |
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Mrsposer
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Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 2101
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
#35 |
| Imaposer wrote: |
| Sky_Walker wrote: |
Hang in there Astroboy,
The best advice I can give is try to have someone video tape your flights and watch them over and over again. From a different perspective and not in the heat of the moment its very easy to see for yourself what your doing right and what your doing wrong.
Be patient and fly safe. |
That is very good advice! Someone telling you what you're doing is one thing, what you feel like you're doing is another thing, but once you actually see yourself doing it you'll go, "DOH" . It can also help to review the videos with your instructor so they can explain things in real time. |
I also think video is a good idea. I never realized how fast I was flying until I saw myself actually doing it. I wish we had all of my early flights on video. I would have probably been able to fix the problems I was having before they became bad habits I had to break.
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AF
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Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 87
Location: On the road....... again
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: |
#36 |
Astroboy,
absolutely positively a video is a must have for learning.
I got myself a really cheap Canon DV handycam (not such a big deal if it gets trashed) and a mount from Moyes. It has proven to be the best $ I have spent yet . It was invaluable for the learning phase and even more so now that I have my restricted.
Reviewing each flight is a breeze and you can burn it to a DVD to archive or watch later on the tv .
cheers
AF |
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gavmess
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: |
#37 |
Hi astroboy - many many thanks for your journal - as you know i am booked in with Tony also for his October class - also highlights an excellent point that he made when i mentioned to him about me looking for a glider now - "wait until after your course to decide what type (or even if to get!) a glider"!!
Being the eternal optimist and keen to fly I never really thought of the reality side of it all - what if i don't switch to flying straight away? What if i decide it isn't really for me? I guess only the course will tell - lucky i am using the same instructor as you and once again i am reassured he is one of the best. My introductory course was with him off an advanced site south of Newcastle for approx 50 odd mins - i flew myself for about 10 mins of it loved that part, now to see how i go by myself! Good luck and i hope one day we can both fly off the same site solo |
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Astroboy2001
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Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 256
Location: Approx. 40km NNE of Stanwell Park (Sydney)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: |
#38 |
| gavmess wrote: |
Hi astroboy - many many thanks for your journal - as you know i am booked in with Tony also for his October class - also highlights an excellent point that he made when i mentioned to him about me looking for a glider now - "wait until after your course to decide what type (or even if to get!) a glider"!!
Being the eternal optimist and keen to fly I never really thought of the reality side of it all - what if i don't switch to flying straight away? What if i decide it isn't really for me? I guess only the course will tell - lucky i am using the same instructor as you and once again i am reassured he is one of the best. My introductory course was with him off an advanced site south of Newcastle for approx 50 odd mins - i flew myself for about 10 mins of it loved that part, now to see how i go by myself! Good luck and i hope one day we can both fly off the same site solo |
I think it's most likely you will be the one to decide whether it's for you or not. We were chatting again today and he said if you are having difficulties getting to the end and wonder if you'll get there, desire is a big part of it. The majority of students finish this course in a week. I haven't managed to this week but neither has my fellow student - because of the weather. I'll be back early next week to try to fnish it off but if I need more time after that, so be it. For the students who don't manage to complete the course in the allotted time, whether they eventually do will depend, I expect, on how much they want it. If you are the eternal optimist, you will get there.
Today we completed the theory study and took the written test, and both had no trouble passing it. The weather today and tomorrow will allow no chance for flying so I've come back to Sydney to make some use of this time. There is some chance of a tandem Sunday afternoon, but if not then, more likely Monday. This is what I'm really looking forward to now, an extended time at the controls high in the air with the instructor there, to practise doing it correctly, for real. Tuesday looks like another good dune day. If I get further than that next week (Wedneday is the last day before I go back to work), onto solo high glides, then it's a bonus - but whatever, I do plan on getting there some time and expect to.
So don't worry about the "difficulties" I've written about, just plan on success. If there is some benefit to reading about my experiences, it would be to warn you not to assume it will be as easy as you expect or hope, so you'll be better prepared for the hard work.
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hiflioz
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 826
Location: south australia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:22 am Post subject: |
#39 |
| Astroboy2001 wrote: |
[
I think it's most likely you will be the one to decide whether it's for you or not. We were chatting again today and he said if you are having difficulties getting to the end and wonder if you'll get there, desire is a big part of it. The majority of students finish this course in a week. I haven't managed to this week but neither has my fellow student - because of the weather. I'll be back early next week to try to fnish it off but if I need more time after that, so be it. For the students who don't manage to complete the course in the allotted time, whether they eventually do will depend, I expect, on how much they want it. If you are the eternal optimist, you will get there.
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Yes. If you want it enough, you won't give up. As others have said, you will get there. And as I said, it took me 8 months to learn, coming out EVERY WEEKEND IT WAS FLYABLE. A straight-through nine day course just would not have worked for me, either - I'd have needed more time, even if it were flyable every day. My instructors recognised I reacted poorly under stress and took things slow... and I will be ever grateful that they did. Even afterwards, other skills came slowly to me, as Red will attest. But the point is: THE SKILLS CAME. And they are NOT inferior to those whose skills came easily.
My ex-instructors (now flying mates) have since told me they only had one student who took longer to learn than me... and that's our CLUB PRESIDENT (decades ago)!!!! Nowadays, our Prez is widely respected and admired for his consistent, conservative flying and perfect landings. And I'm getting there, step by small step. Hare and tortoise, I've said elsewhere - so just because it takes you longer to learn doesn't mean you won't up with the same or better skills than others in the longer term.
I certainly think our gradual progression has the potential to make us into good pilots because we don't feel infallible and don't take things for granted. I think those of us who have to work hard for every step end up with very solid skills.
Not only that, don't dismiss those days you come out and don't get to fly. You will learn an AMAZING amount just by hanging around with other pilots (other than the requisite bad jokes, toilet humour etc. ) You'll learn to read conditions, feel the wind on the hill, etc etc. If pilots near you are flying, go out and spend time with them, even if you can't launch yet yourself. You will be welcomed by all when they know where you're at. Sometimes, ironically, the very fact you don't fly means you can take in other things more effectively - not just conditions, but other pilots' launches and landings. Sitting by someone knowledgeable and asking WHY they're wincing/grinning, will tell you even more. This constant exposure sort of seeps into you, so you learn effortlessly by osmosis, and so that you are less "raw" than when you come from a straight-through course (physically manipulating the wing is only one, relatively minor part of flying, just as is driving a car in busy traffic).
Again, Red's advice for tandem flights might be an excellent option at this stage. *Have you discussed it with Tony yet?*
*Edit - sorry, I see that you have and that it may be soon. Good luck & enjoy!
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Helen
Falcon1 170, Fun 190, Malibu 188, Malibu 166, Shark 144, Litesport3, Adv, GT, SO
Last edited by hiflioz on Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Astroboy2001
3 thumbs up
Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 256
Location: Approx. 40km NNE of Stanwell Park (Sydney)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:45 am Post subject: |
#40 |
| hiflioz wrote: |
Again, Red's advice for tandem flights might be an excellent option at this stage. Have you discussed it with Tony yet? |
Yep, as I said we are hoping to do one either Sunday or Monday, he thinks it would be very beneficial. Tandems are normally part of his course, it's just a matter of when (finding the right weather conditions). Won't be too long I'm sure.
Good post above BTW, I found myself smiling and agreeing with a lot of it, especially that bit about not taking things for granted. It's a fact of life that you appreciate something gained with difficulty more than something gained with ease.
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