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relate2
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Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 3391
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: I don't care about the flack if this saves one person. |
 #1 |
I don't care about the flack I get from this but....
FOR GOD'S SAKE HOW MANY MORE PILOTS HAVE TO DIE FROM NOT HOOKING IN.....
USE THE AUSTRALIAN METHOD AND HOOK YOUR HARNESS TO YOU GLIDER DURING SET UP.
and still get your hang check. With your harness connected to your glider before you climb into it you reduce your possibility of launching unhooked virtually to zero.
If you forget something, also do as we Australians do and CLIMB out of your harness and get what your forgot. Once our harness's are connected to our gliders they are not unhooked until you land and are packing up.
I know there may be one or two sites where this may appear impossible but they are rare. Believe me I have heard all of the reasons and justifications from the old pilots and unfortunately it is the older pilots who are getting killed this way.
You see sooner or later the odds will catch up to you and YOU WILL FORGET. You can't forget if you connect your harness to your glider during set up.
As I said give it to me, I have my flack jacket on, it will be worth it if it only saves one more of these depressing messages coming through of a fellow pilot dying through not hooking in.
_________________
Sonic 165
Lightsport 3
Malibu 188
My youtube channel
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Wagner24314
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Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 2045
Location: Yankton SD
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
#2 |
i do that and with the towing i do it is not possible to be unhooked
_________________
"Cocky Bastard". Never land on your face it hurts
H3 AT, PL,FL
Sport 2 brothers wing, LaMouette Topless 1 flys awsome and Airborne C4 13.5 |
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Davedebogusone
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Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Posts: 1476
Location: Beauklahoma ,peoples republic of Kalifornia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: |
#3 |
 Thats what I do.
Besides what happens when your the last one off the hill ? 
Get a Wuffo check ? 
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noman
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: I don't care about the flack if this saves one person. |
#4 |
| relate2 wrote: |
I don't care about the flack I get from this but....
FOR GOD'S SAKE HOW MANY MORE PILOTS HAVE TO DIE FROM NOT HOOKING IN.....
USE THE AUSTRALIAN METHOD AND HOOK YOUR HARNESS TO YOU GLIDER DURING SET UP.
and still get your hang check. With your harness connected to your glider before you climb into it you reduce your possibility of launching unhooked virtually to zero.
If you forget something, also do as we Australians do and CLIMB out of your harness and get what your forgot. Once our harness's are connected to our gliders they are not unhooked until you land and are packing up.
I know there may be one or two sites where this may appear impossible but they are rare. Believe me I have heard all of the reasons and justifications from the old pilots and unfortunately it is the older pilots who are getting killed this way.
You see sooner or later the odds will catch up to you and YOU WILL FORGET. You can't forget if you connect your harness to your glider during set up.
As I said give it to me, I have my flack jacket on, it will be worth it if it only saves one more of these depressing messages coming through of a fellow pilot dying through not hooking in. |
im with u man,i always hook my glider 2 my wing before i get in.It only took 1 time not hooking in before i went aussie.Havent launched off un hooked since
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relate2
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Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 3391
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: |
#5 |
Hi Dave,
I often get a Wuffo to give me a hang check at Stanwell when there are no pilots around.
If you are on a mountain site and no one is around to give you a hang check at least do a step through the A frame to pull on the hang strap.
_________________
Sonic 165
Lightsport 3
Malibu 188
My youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/relate2#p/u |
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noman
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: |
#6 |
| dont worry relate ill back u on this 1 myfriend and i live in the usa.
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Wagner24314
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Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 2045
Location: Yankton SD
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: |
#7 |
ill back you also its a good rule
_________________
"Cocky Bastard". Never land on your face it hurts
H3 AT, PL,FL
Sport 2 brothers wing, LaMouette Topless 1 flys awsome and Airborne C4 13.5 |
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relate2
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 3391
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: |
#8 |
Thanks Noman and Wagna, it just cuts me to the core reading about such meaningless deaths from such a preventable cause.
I live in hope that this will be the last post I read about someone launching un-hooked. I have only been flying for 4 years and keep reading about people getting injured or killed launching un-hooked and I just had to do something to help change people's thinking on this matter.
Robert
_________________
Sonic 165
Lightsport 3
Malibu 188
My youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/relate2#p/u |
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noman
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: |
#9 |
| i know that its not really doable in a atos but it is doable in a flex wing.Some would argue that some of the new harnesses prevent u from hooking it in first ,but this is not the case.I cant trust myself to be on the ball all the time so i have to take myself out of the equation.This method should be taught by all schools,in my opinion.
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Wagner24314
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Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 2045
Location: Yankton SD
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: |
#10 |
_________________
"Cocky Bastard". Never land on your face it hurts
H3 AT, PL,FL
Sport 2 brothers wing, LaMouette Topless 1 flys awsome and Airborne C4 13.5 |
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Davedebogusone
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Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Posts: 1476
Location: Beauklahoma ,peoples republic of Kalifornia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: |
#11 |
When I started 20 yrs ago it happened ,ideas were talked about
warning flags ,electronic sensors ,check list .blah lah blah.
Some how I learned about the put it on the glider first method.
Think it was from the instructor after someone did this and I wanted to make sure it was never me.
There are enough risks that can't be seen .
Besides its way easier for me to hook the harness in ,not wearing it.
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fly n mater
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Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 725
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: |
#12 |
I always hook my harness in as part of setting up the glider. That will not always save YOU!!!
Don't learn the hard way like I did. Also count what is hooked to you biner people!! I can show you a picture of my harness looking like it was hooked in but it realy wasn't.
Count to 4. Harness, parahute, hang strap and back up strap.
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Imaposer
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Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 1041
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: |
#13 |
I posted this elsewhere but for purposes of discussion I'll add it here as well:
Personally I hook my harness into my glider as part of my set-up, glider pre-flight, and harness pre-flight ritual. I think of my glider and harness as the same flying machine. It is a package that makes up the whole once assembled, and not separate parts. Once hooked in it stays that way unti I land. I also find it easier to pre-flight my harness lines, mains and chute bridle while the harness is hanging. I also know that when I get in my harness at launch it is hooked in. Once in my harness and have it all buttoned up I do a pull through and double check everything. The last thing I do before stepping up on the launch ramp is get a hang check. Sometimes I'll get a hang check after getting in my harness in leu of the pull through in order to check my dangle angle and then do another "official" hang check before stepping up on launch. Either way I get at least one full hang check just prior to stepping up on the ramp. I like having double and even triple redundancy.
If anyone ever sees me approaching launch, please offer me a hang check. If you ever see me step up on the ramp (with my glider) and you know I didn't do a hang check, slap the sh*t out of me and take my wing away. I'll thank you later.
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DBrose
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 729
Location: Humboldt
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: I like my way |
#14 |
I don't like that way. the front of the harness hangs and lays in dirt.
DB
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Flying is for the birds |
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bradgeary
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Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 219
Location: SAN DIEGO!
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
#15 |
on my rigid my harness lays on the ground when hooked to the glider and there isn't much room to get in it that way .
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tokyoDirk
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Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 965
Location: bay area, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: |
#16 |
I like the "6 L's" as a mnemonic
Loops (through both loops)
Locked (biner locked)
Lines (harness lines straight)
Length (hang height correct)
Legs (leg loops on)
Lid (helmet on and buckled)
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-Dirk
H4,BI - WW U2 145 |
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FormerFF
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Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 2482
Location: Roswell, Georgia, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: |
#17 |
| fly n mater wrote: |
I always hook my harness in as part of setting up the glider. That will not always save YOU!!!
Don't learn the hard way like I did. Also count what is hooked to you biner people!! I can show you a picture of my harness looking like it was hooked in but it realy wasn't.
Count to 4. Harness, parahute, hang strap and back up strap. |
Add some sort of keeper so that your harness main, control lines, and parachute always stay attached. LMFP's sew shop uses a piece of shock cord tied around the narrow end of the carabiner:
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hiflioz
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 826
Location: south australia
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: I don't care about the flack if this saves one person. |
#18 |
| relate2 wrote: |
I don't care about the flack I get from this but....
FOR GOD'S SAKE HOW MANY MORE PILOTS HAVE TO DIE FROM NOT HOOKING IN.....
USE THE AUSTRALIAN METHOD AND HOOK YOUR HARNESS TO YOU GLIDER DURING SET UP.
and still get your hang check. With your harness connected to your glider before you climb into it you reduce your possibility of launching unhooked virtually to zero.
If you forget something, also do as we Australians do and CLIMB out of your harness and get what your forgot. Once our harness's are connected to our gliders they are not unhooked until you land and are packing up.
I know there may be one or two sites where this may appear impossible but they are rare. Believe me I have heard all of the reasons and justifications from the old pilots and unfortunately it is the older pilots who are getting killed this way.
You see sooner or later the odds will catch up to you and YOU WILL FORGET. You can't forget if you connect your harness to your glider during set up.
As I said give it to me, I have my flack jacket on, it will be worth it if it only saves one more of these depressing messages coming through of a fellow pilot dying through not hooking in. |
And STILL do that hang check. ALWAYS. I've seen someone get into their training harness (which was attached to their glider) and not do one. After he launched, we all saw that the harness had been moved while on the ground so that both hangloops were routed BEHIND AND AROUND THE OUTSIDE OF ONE SIDE OF THE A-frame
We all shouted and pointed, but it says a lot for the amazing handling of the Fun 190 that the pilot was able to still control the wing. He had a completely uneventful landing.
_________________
Cheers from Down Under
Helen
Falcon1 170, Fun 190, Malibu 188, Malibu 166, Shark 144, Litesport3, Adv, GT, SO |
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Wingspan34
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Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: |
#19 |
Back in March this topic came up. Here's what I said then:
| Quote: |
I set up and preflight the glider, then I unpack my harness and preflight it. Once I am ready to fly I put on my harness, hook in, do a personal hang check or get one with some assistance. Then I launch. I never vary the routine.
What I have found, for myself, is that no harness I've owned would be very easy to put on while it is hooked into a glider. I would find trying to get into it under such circumstances to be more distracting and more likely to lead to twisted lines or some other screw up.
No matter what you prefer, the thing is to INGRAIN the routine into your head. Never vary it! You should just about be able to visualize every step of getting into your harness and hooking in, in your imagination - like you were right there doing it.
I always drive with my seat belt on*. I literally feel uncomfortable sitting in my car with it off. The same thing should be true of having your harness on and not being hooked in to your glider. If I have my harness on and simply want to ground handle my glider closer to launch, I feel weird doing it - because I'm not hooked in. And that is a very good thing.
If you think you need it, while hooking in, make a ritual out of it. Say a prayer, a mantra, ask the sky gods for good lift, whatever, then click the carabiner closed and locked . Make the little event of hooking in, into a BIG event, if you must.
The details (whether you hook in first then get into your harness - or get into your harness then hook in) do not matter. What matters is that you NEVER FORGET to do it. It's that simple. Do what you need to do to make it something you simply can not forget.
* If I happen to drive (a very short distance) without it on it is ALWAYS an uncomfortable and conscious decision! |
I'll add that if possible, having your harness already hooked into your glider makes it very hard to launch without you being in the harness. Still, this doesn't address issues of getting into your harness properly. There's no question. You've got to do it right and you have to do it EVERY TIME. You're not a pilot till you're hooked in.
_________________
WW 141 Fusion SP
Master rated, First flight - May 1975
FL, PL, PA, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TURB, X-C |
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Imaposer
3 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 1041
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: |
#20 |
| FormerFF wrote: |
| Add some sort of keeper so that your harness main, control lines, and parachute always stay attached. LMFP's sew shop uses a piece of shock cord tied around the narrow end of the carabiner: |
I was thinking of that earlier but didn't have a picture handy.
BTW Matt, where did you get your quick link? I've been wanting to add one but want to find a high quality example.
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