Just curious if anyone has ever been hang gliding and flew into rain? or planned to fly through rain?,... doe's it cause problems flying?, how doe's a glider handle it? _________________
Just curious if anyone has ever been hang gliding and flew into rain? or planned to fly through rain?,... doe's it cause problems flying?, how doe's a glider handle it?
Hey asw8055,
I have flown in the rain safely. After the experience, my thoughts were....This better than the best day of work
Put the kids to bed. This musical representation is strong at best.
Link _________________ The sky is no longer the limit! Only our imaginations will be our limit!
It can cause problems depending on the type of glider youre flying. Types that have a deep profile section and mylar leading edges are particularly susceptible. If there is enough rain it will eventually build up on the leading edge, in beads, and the performance characteristics and, much more importantly the handling, will change for the worse on some types of glider. All dacron sails do not promote beading and therefore don't seem to have adverse effects from rain.
The airborne shark 144 was really bad for this. It was a death trap if it got very wet in-flight. I only had one such experience on the 144. It was one of the scariest experiences of my life and I never went near another drop of rain again in that type of glider. I estimate the pilot in a wet shark 144 has about 10-15% of normal flight control to handle a glider that is severely affected in roll and stall. I have heard competitors used to coat their top surface with detergent as this prevented beading and was good for about three rain sessions during a flight.
The latest high performance gliders have a complete mylar top surface but despite this don't seem to suffer too badly (atleast not adversely) if wet and I think this is because the profile sections these days are relatively shallow. It is a nice experience to be under a cloud still climbing out with a little rain falling. And often at the front and just ahead of a rain cell you will find a line of lift, usually smooth and big. _________________ A ship in harbour is safe.
The airborne shark 144 was really bad for this. It was a death trap if it got very wet in-flight. I only had one such experience on the 144. It was one of the scariest experiences of my life and I never went near another drop of rain again in that type of glider. I estimate the pilot in a wet shark 144 has about 10-15% of normal flight control to handle a glider that is severely affected in roll and stall. I have heard competitors used to coat their top surface with detergent as this prevented beading and was good for about three rain sessions during a flight.
AP, that's VERY helpful to read. Some pilots think I'm a wuss for not even taking my Shark 144 off the racks on squally days on the coast (when they come through every 15 mins) and setting up the Falcon instead. But they haven't flown it wet and think I'm exaggerating.
I flew my Shark 144 once in the rain. Just drizzle, but at the point when the water started to bead on the DTs, it went from manageable to sh** in 30 seconds. My control inputs were all but irrelevant. Pull the bar in for speed - it was already in, almost all the way! Little pitch, every turn slipping to the side - terrifying. And a VERY fast landing. Because other pilots fly their toplesses and high performances in the rain, I've always thought that it was just me being wussy, so your experiences are a good confirmation. _________________ Cheers from Down Under
Helen
Falcon1 170, Fun 190, Malibu 188, Malibu 166, Shark 144, Litesport3, Adv, GT, SO
I've heard stories of some gliders where the stall speed gets distressingly high when the wing has water on it. So rain is to be avoided when flying, and it can be even worse when landing, and thus better to fly around some if possible to dry the wing off somewhat before trying to land. _________________ H4 + various skills (only foot-launch so far)
WW UltraSport 147, WW Falcon2 170, PacAir Vision Mark IV 17
My HG wiki profile and my flying blog
Some pilots think I'm a wuss for not even taking my Shark 144 off the racks on squally days on the coast.
If you ever get caught out in a shark 144 in the rain, there are definitely two things to do that will improve the situation.
1. DONT let the vg off. This definitely makes the problem much much worse. My experience was initially spent with half vg, and then when things started going pear shaped I commited myself for a landing, so I went to zero vg. The change was so abrupt and severe that I realised the mistake and intended to pull the vg back on but I literally had no opportunity to take a hand off the basebar. Later it was confirmed by a HG designer not to let off the vg.
2. Avoid turning at all costs. Pick a landing approach and fly straight along it until you land.
That is the only time I felt luck had a big part in whether I walked away in one piece after landing. _________________ A ship in harbour is safe.
Besides the risks with the wing.. you might get sucked up by the big storm and get hurt, disoriented, frozen, asphyxiated or teared in pieces by the crazy winds up there. _________________ Aeros Target 13 <---SOLD
Sport 2 135
H2 - AT
Unless you have an all dacron glider it is not a lot of fun to fly in rain.
The hydradet sails bead up and distrubs the airflow and it the glider will fly funky (tip stalls) then you have to land.
Here's a story...
Flying at Mt Tam flying my XC 155 and it was blowing in then the fog started to get lower and also a light mist was falling. It was cold and wet on launch and I figured it would be better to fly down where it is dry and warm. I launched and there is still some thermal activity you can circle. I turned and as soon as I did I fell out of the backside and stalled diving downwards. It took some time to come out of it. It was rather spooky and out of control I head in to land. I am on the radio and I tell my friend to foam the runway and clear the hikers. I do not know what this glider is going to do. hee hee
The best thing to do is when your glider is flying poor is to make a long staight approach which I did and landed okay but it was not fun. Now I was dry and warm.
I also flew at Mission with rain on its way in the falcon with much different results. I had fun.
I launch and was easily able to stay above launch and just fly around from launch to the slide on the ridge. I had taken my glasses off because I knew it could rain. Shortly after that It started to rain but the air was very bouyant. I do not notice anything bad behaving on the falcon. So I continue to fly I saw some clouds develop to my north that was below launch. Also more clouds to the west moving fast towards me. The air still very bouyant wet but fun but It is time to land. I am now circling the sink like a mad dog to get down. Meanwhile, another pg pilot playing down low started to climb upwards. I flew over him pointing but he was determine to climb up wards. I am almost down to the LZ I look back to see the pg pilot disappears behind the tower and launch totally covered in fog. He landed in the rotor of mtn and had no clue where he was and it took him 4hrs to hike out.
The glider felt heavier and decreased my glide. Surprised me a little when I went to land at the bottom of Mission but not a big deal. I almost landed on a pg pilot because I came up well short of my target.
Would I go and fly in the rain on purpose? In my falcon I would think about in my litesport NO WAY!
The rain itself is one thing to consider, and the reason it's raining is another.
Here in Utah, and in most other desert flying sites, we almost never fly in rain because rain usually means there's a thunderstorm nearby.
On the other hand, when I lived at the beach we would fly in light rain a lot, because it was common to have a steady drizzle and steady winds that lasted all day. Avoiding light rain would mean giving up on lots of airtime there.
One solution to the problem of water drops on your Mylar leading edge is to fly with a small monkey tethered to the kingpost, and when the water beads up he can run back and forth with a rag to dry it off. My instructor's idea.
Here in Bogotá, is always rainy in this season, so itīs almost normal encounter drizel, virga and light rain during mountain flight.
[URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/1553/img2260kk8.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
All the Moyes Super XS have a poor handling and behavior in wet conditions.
WW Ultra Sport very bad in rainy conditions(tip stall and increase in stall speed, yaw movements), the forgiveness Pulses does not have any problem with the rain.
The WW Sport2 flyes very well in rainy conditions without nasty behavior.
It doesnīt matter wich glider performs better in rainy days, itīs better avoid it and land safe.
Here in Utah, and in most other desert flying sites, we almost never fly in rain because rain usually means there's a thunderstorm nearby.
Good point I should say that I am Calif we do not get the severe weather. I was keeping a watchful eye on the weather for any sign for stronger winds. Again I am in BA and for it to turn severe is pretty minimal but you do need to keep an eye out.
I did my ground-tow endorsement in the rain. It was drizzling most of the weekend, and I think all the students ( already Novice or Intermediate pilots ) were flying Airborne Funs so it was either setup and tow in the drizzle or not do the endorsement.
In the very light rain which was much of the time, I can't say I noticed any change in the gliders flying characteristics, but on my last tow on the first day, I got towed up to about 1000', then flew over towards the hanger to land next to it, and made my turn onto final low-ish, but well and truly high enough under normal dry circumstances, however in these conditions, the turn side slipped and I saw the ground coming fast towards me sideways.
I pushed out hard to control the turn, and at the same time weight shifted to bring the wing level. As I did so, I felt my left wing-tip dragging on the ground. I though "Oh Sh*t" but continued to weight shift as hard as i could, then the right wing came down, I flared, and just stoped on my feet with the glider dropping gently onto my shoulders.
It was only as I carried the glider back to the hanger that I realised how wet it was. It was significantly heavier than normal.
As SkyHighWoman said above:
[quote=SkyHighWoman]The best thing to do is when your glider is flying poor is to make a long staight approach [/quote]
If the glider (or even your harness) is wet, it will weigh more, and you will have to deal with a higher wing-loading which of course leads to a higher stall speed.
Dawson _________________ Delta Bronze
Delta Silver
Aerotow (HG)
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VHF Radio Operations
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Airborne Sting 2XC 175
DON'T FLY IN RAIN! I did, now I don't 'nuff said...
Awww, come on, Tex, spill the beans... _________________ Cheers from Down Under
Helen
Falcon1 170, Fun 190, Malibu 188, Malibu 166, Shark 144, Litesport3, Adv, GT, SO
Well I had had some experience in rain on various wings, they all had mylar leading edges and the worst I experienced was divergence in turns, always manageable but still uncomfortable, it never made me run away.
Then one day I was flying with a very nice sky in well spaced CU, no real vertical development, but with some dropping virga and showers randomly around the place, mostly in the distance, and every cloud had an exit to blue sky. I pushed on course to a cloud that looked like it might start to drop rain and it had another cloud that sat off maybe 2ks to its side and looked the same. Anyway I got there and started a great climb (500'PM or so) when about 3000' foot from base it started to rain lightly, no problem, done this before, rain got a bit heavier and the wing started to show the signs of being " too wet" time to go... about that same time it really started to dump rain and now even though I was still maybe 1000' from base I could no longer see the ground for the rain.
As I tried to escape I soon realized in the few minutes I had been climbing the two clouds had built closer and pretty soon they were going to join, then that lift you don't really need at about 1000' per minute, not good when 1000' from base, lucky just as I went into the white room I popped out the side of the cloud but still no relief from the rain as these suckers where like pancaking out as they dropped there load and I of course was now in some hideous sink, all with a glider that had a mind of its own, the lower I got the more I collected the rain as I had to run down wind as up wind was the worst of it. Anyway it took me no more than 3 minutes to get drilled from 7000' agl with no escape from the rain in any direction through out. When I came into land there was no wind in any direction just torrential rain, I estimate my stall at... VERY FARKIN FAST anyway the only good decision I made over the last 15 minutes or so was to select a freshly plowed paddock to land in. I add another furrow, free for the framers crop and managed to slide 17 paces (yep I stepped it out).
Then the mud and crap I had to clean up.... At least 6 other pilots were with in 8km of me when this happened and could not believe it. All they saw was a couple of clouds dropping rain. They had all passed and climbed under these same clouds not 5 minutes before me. When the rain cleared not another drop fell in my sight the rest of the day
Yeh Yeh I know not all rain flying is in situations like this but given I had NEVER had a problem before in similar circumstances I now respect the fact I can not forecast whether it will be drizzle, heavy rain or the time to dry off a wing before having to land.
DON"T FLY IN RAIN! I did, that's why I don't 'nuff said _________________ TEX
"Love the lift you're with."
Don't be a passenger.
DUSTY!
This is a really good thread asw8055. I am sure some us had never heard of or been told about the effect of rain on hang gliders until experiencing it. It is important information that many don't know about or don't give it's due. I even think it should be part of the students course, at least a mention with a short explanation. At least this thread helps to spread the word.
I had been flying in moderately heavy rain for only a couple of minutes and the higher wing loading or a faster trim speed was not the problem. The lack of control was. The shark 144 was so severely affected any further loss would have basically made me a passenger. The glider became unpredictable. High speed stalls came and went without warning. I tried to slow it but it began to exhibit roll reversal i.e. weight shift to the left and it would roll the right, vice versa. I increased speed just to avoid the roll reversals but even at the higher speeds the response to weight shift was very delayed, leaving me unsure if my inputs were having any effect. Any turn induced a big extended sideslip.
To compound the issue I was at a site far from ideal to fly this wet glider. I was about 200' over a narrow beach about 3 wingspans wide, with a cliff on one side and ocean on the other.
Throughout the descent a persistant, slow and uncontrollable ocsillation meandered me about the general direction I was trying to follow. All my efforts were needed just to keep these oscillations in-check. At the peak of each chandelle the glider would begin a prolonged slideslip to the low wing. Now as I lost altitude there was a real threat the next chandelle/sideslip would put me into the surf, or into the cliff. I had the glider at a speed fast enough to avoid the roll reversals but this was a speed too fast if I ended up collecting the cliff. It would have been very harmful but probably worse. Likewise flying into the surf was not an option if (I could avoid it).
The glider snaked along a flightpath approximating the direction of the beach and only just missed the cliff a couple of times, and with an equal margin just avoided going into the surf. It became clear I was not going into either. My relief was short lived because I now had little height remaining and a high speed landing in this glider was coming up soon.The oscillations persisted and the speed was high. The nose nodded and forced the A-frame back and forward as the stall came and went without warning. I had my hands full and could not take either off the basebar to unzip the harness.
I arrived near ground level and I lucked-out. With a foot of altitude remaining the glider was exactly at the transition between the oscillation from right to left. I was travelling fast but I was level. I did a huge flare still in prone and the glider felt like it travelled horizontally in a very nose-high stall for some distance. Its speed decayed, the glider beagn to fall the last foot and touched-down in a '3 pointer' on keel and basebar with little forward speed.
Not even a nose-over. No injuries, no damage!
8 lives left. _________________ A ship in harbour is safe.
A related and amusing anecdote: when I was preparing to fly at our nearby coastal site for the first time, I was exchanging email with my mentor, and one bit of advice that he gave me was to check the wave heights on the forecast, because they are an indication of how much spray there will be. He misworded a bit of this advice in a way that confused me. The comment was something like, "Salt spray can coat your glider and make it difficult to land". I though about his, wondering whether the salt would maybe account for a large weight increase, or if even something as small as salt could interfere with the airflow over the wing (on an all-dacron Falcon), or what. Upon further inquiry, he replied that he had combined two thoughts in once sentence: salt can coat the glider, making it necessary to clean it thoroughly to prevent corrosion, and salt can coat my glasses, making it difficult to see for landing. _________________ H4 + various skills (only foot-launch so far)
WW UltraSport 147, WW Falcon2 170, PacAir Vision Mark IV 17
My HG wiki profile and my flying blog
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