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hgflyer
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 3425
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 Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: |
 #21 |
true
We expounded on it, here on the org. The author was talking about beaches. Using beaches as an example to todays going ons.
Besides, I like black sand beaches. There's hot beaches on them.
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The sky is no longer the limit! Only our imaginations will be our limit! |
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Redbeard
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1291
Location: Santa Shoes, California
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
#22 |
| hgflyer wrote: |
Got me thinking day,
p.s. tell noman I can't talk about safety meetings anymore  
Took me almost an hour and a half to get home.................. |
    actually laughing out loud....
_________________
"Never Land On Your Face"
H3
FL~FSL~CL~AWCL~AT
The Hangar--> Moyes Litesport 4~Vision Mark IV 17~UP Gemini
check out my pics... http://flickr.com/photos/26902164@N08/ |
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day dreamer
2 thumbs up
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: McClure Pilot
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: |
#23 |
safety meetings are importaint H.G.! I look forward to them.  That's O.K. we still love having you around.I wish i could have taken video of last weekend,that would have been cool to show everyone you soaring a what,100ft. hill? Dude that was soo funny to turn around and see you with this big ol smile standing in the control frame of my glider,and just passing close by .Man that pre-frontal stuff was like coastal air.Can't wait to hit Mission,and Funston with you.And if you don't want to be in on the meeting on the way up,then you better roll down the window!!
Last edited by day dreamer on Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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hgflyer
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 3425
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: |
#24 |
Look, it's crazy to think hanggliding would ever dissappear from existance. Why worry about it. Let's just have fun and do are best while we're here. The fun we have as a band of brothers and sisters speaks volumes. So, let's take care of what we have now. Let the future worry about numbers. Besides, why would we want to stand out like a sore thumb. We are all rebels. Doing what only an exclusive group of people would even venture to try. I am a pirate of, quality vs. quantity. And if at some point we reach quantity with quality. So be it.
It's our responsibility to set a good example to future pilots. No matter how big are numbers climb to.
have fun fly safe.
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The sky is no longer the limit! Only our imaginations will be our limit! |
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hgflyer
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 3425
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: |
#25 |
| day dreamer wrote: |
| safety meetings are importaint H.G.! I look forward to them. That's O.K. we still love having you around.I wish i could have taken video of last weekend,that would have been cool to show everyone you soaring a what,100ft. hill? Dude that was soo funny to turn around and see you with this big ol smile standing in the control frame of my glider,and just passing close by .Man that pre-frontal stuff was like coastal air.Can't wait to hit Mission,and Funston with you.And if you don't want to be in on the meeting on the way up,then you better roll down the window!! |
I'll video tape you guys discussing flight plans.......................from the bed of the truck.
_________________
The sky is no longer the limit! Only our imaginations will be our limit! |
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hgflyer
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 3425
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: |
#26 |
Thanks to SG and all the hg pilots who share on this site. This site gives all of us a voice. Even if the USHPA wants to listen or not.
Het Gigh Fo Gar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The sky is no longer the limit! Only our imaginations will be our limit! |
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Wingspan34
2 thumbs up
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject: |
#27 |
| TomGalvin wrote: |
| Wingspan34 wrote: |
| I'm sure you recall that this topic was about a USHPA staff writter calling (certain?) HG pilots racists. |
He did not do that. You read that into it. |
Well Tom, once again we disagree. Here is part of what Mr. Messman did say - with significant words and phrases underlined.
“I remember . . . the beach my family used to frequent.” Besides
the fun times, . . . there was a dark side.
“. . . my dad asked what the problem was. The answer: The folks
in that car were the wrong color.”
“I asked my dad why . . . [the] problem. . . . I remember the answer
. . . "Would you want to swim with them?" ”
“We often choose to fly wings of a different color.
“A member of my own club said, "How would you like it if hang glider
pilots wanted to join our club?"”
“. . . I was wondering again if I was just flying the wrong color of wing
and if I had just been told, like those folks at the beach so long ago,
to mind my place.
“It bewilders my imagination to hear those words that should have
been eradicated from our flying vocabulary long ago.”
“. . . many of us do what we can do to rid ourselves of those wing
prejudices.”
“Some Simply choose not to be prejudiced.”
“They [the USHPA] have done that in the face of severe criticism and
prejudice.”
“it's just time . . . to get over our differences . . .”
Tom,
If someone comes over to your house, goes into your basement and cuts some pipe, removes your broken hot water heater, then replaces it with a new unit and then replaces and sweats in new pipe, is it inappropriate to determine that he is very likely a plumber?
Read the above quotes, and especially the underlined phrases. Very clearly, Mr. Messman repeatedly uses the word "prejudice". Identifying the context in which he uses these and other words, it becomes blatantly obvious that some kind of person, or people, hold these prejudices. Since prejudging someone is an action, it obviously requires (some type of) a person who actually does the prejudging. This prejudging also clearly involves wings, but originally, and more significantly - people, of the wrong color.
You can go ahead and deconstruct Mr. Messman's written words to the nth degree if you like - and in the process lose ALL of the article's relevant meaning or intent.
Meanwhile, the rest of us will stand back in astonishment and wonder how you may possibly forget, overlook or just ignore the commonly recognized term(s) for people who do such despicable things. |
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day dreamer
2 thumbs up
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: McClure Pilot
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:23 pm Post subject: |
#28 |
| wingspan,i think what the problem is,you need a hug. |
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Wingspan34
2 thumbs up
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:12 am Post subject: |
#29 |
| day dreamer wrote: |
| wingspan,i think what the problem is,you need a hug. |
If only it was that simple. I might agree that Steve Messman could use one from a BIG group of us "prejudiced" HG pilots. It might ease the effects of his childhood trauma.
I just spent 10 minutes looking for the "big hug" emot but couldn't find it. For now I'll just use this one:
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 11030
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:24 am Post subject: |
#30 |
| TomGalvin wrote: |
| Wingspan34 wrote: |
| I'm sure you recall that this topic was about a USHPA staff writter calling (certain?) HG pilots racists. |
He did not do that. You read that into it. |
He didnt have to explicitly say it. He drew a parallel between racists and hang glider pilots. That was plenty.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
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fly n mater
3 thumbs up
Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 725
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: |
#31 |
This whole thing just irks me. First I'm compared to a bigot and then the only thing put in this month's rag is a thank you. I know they've gotten some not so favorable email responces that they could have put in.
This feels like I'm back in the waiver war days. |
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gtpowell
2 thumbs up
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 339
Location: High Above So. California
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:33 am Post subject: |
#32 |
I read through the article with an open mind, re-read the article with an open mind and I must say I took no offense from the article. I read it for what it was trying to convey, and I believe for certain individual, it hit to close to home. As a non prejudice, non-biased pilot, it was not referring to me in any way. And, I fully believe certain points the author was trying to convey are justified. Some of his points bring to mind attacks experienced at the Oz, attacks experienced here (attacks are not only related to PG), and what appears to be the direction this site is headed, consistent negativity towards PG and efforts by some to sensor any and all PG topics unless it demonstrates PG in a negative manner.
This website was far more enjoyable to participate in the past. Recent efforts of censorship, threads attacking religion and persons of religious faith with statements such as "Religion is the Root of all evil", individual members scolding members for posting as if they own this site and other fully biased posts with an intent to discredit and or shed negativity on certain populous, have taken away from the enjoyment I previously found here.
SG,
I hope you can get a handle on the changing tone here. This used to be a place of enjoyment, camaraderie amongst pilots (friends) related to interesting and funny things that happen in our personal lives and in our flying community. Now, a great number of threads ooze negativity and controversy. "If I think it is bad, the whole world should know I think it is bad, hear all of my views on why it is bad, until I have convinced them all to side with me that, IT IS BAD” Well, I think this attitude is hazardous to the well being of this site and the HG community. It has the potential of driving away perspective HG.org members and certainly having a negative affect on some of the current members. In addition, it has significant potential of driving away future HG pilots. There are definitely several threads of recent I have found offensive, and do not reflect my views and/or beliefs whatsoever. I choose not to even get into the discussion because it is obvious from the initial tone it would be like talking to a brick wall. Yet, because I am a member of this forum and of the HG community, to the onlooker I may be classified as having the same view point. This I regret.
Just my 2-cents. |
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DocSoc
3 thumbs up
Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 1881
Location: Miami Beach
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: |
#33 |
| gtpowell wrote: |
I read through the article with an open mind, re-read the article with an open mind and I must say I took no offense from the article. I read it for what it was trying to convey, and I believe for certain individual, it hit to close to home. As a non prejudice, non-biased pilot, it was not referring to me in any way. And, I fully believe certain points the author was trying to convey are justified. Some of his points bring to mind attacks experienced at the Oz, attacks experienced here (attacks are not only related to PG), and what appears to be the direction this site is headed, consistent negativity towards PG and efforts by some to sensor any and all PG topics unless it demonstrates PG in a negative manner.
This website was far more enjoyable to participate in the past. Recent efforts of censorship, threads attacking religion and persons of religious faith with statements such as "Religion is the Root of all evil", individual members scolding members for posting as if they own this site and other fully biased posts with an intent to discredit and or shed negativity on certain populous, have taken away from the enjoyment I previously found here.
SG,
I hope you can get a handle on the changing tone here. This used to be a place of enjoyment, camaraderie amongst pilots (friends) related to interesting and funny things that happen in our personal lives and in our flying community. Now, a great number of threads ooze negativity and controversy. "If I think it is bad, the whole world should know I think it is bad, hear all of my views on why it is bad, until I have convinced them all to side with me that, IT IS BAD” Well, I think this attitude is hazardous to the well being of this site and the HG community. It has the potential of driving away perspective HG.org members and certainly having a negative affect on some of the current members. In addition, it has significant potential of driving away future HG pilots. There are definitely several threads of recent I have found offensive, and do not reflect my views and/or beliefs whatsoever. I choose not to even get into the discussion because it is obvious from the initial tone it would be like talking to a brick wall. Yet, because I am a member of this forum and of the HG community, to the onlooker I may be classified as having the same view point. This I regret.
Just my 2-cents. |
PS: The lack of RAD-isms is a pitfall as well... What Happened? Is he Soooooooo busy he has forgotten about his REAL family???
_________________
Socrates
Rogallo Member USHPA
"Team Chicken Hawk" |
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 11030
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:41 am Post subject: |
#34 |
As the admin, im put into a difficult position.
You cant make everyone happy, its just not possible.
I could say NO THIS and NO THAT, and then people cry CENSORSHIP!
If I dont censor at all, and then people complain about stuff that is posted.
There is a balance, but no matter where I set the line, people on BOTH ends of the bell curve complain.
What I can do is....
1) Move all PG related threads off the front page
2) Move all political threads off the front page
3) Move all religion threads off the front page
4) Move all threads that turn negative off the front page
5) repeat pattern....
This way, people who REALLY want to continue the conversation can, but they have to go look for it, or they can check the box at the bottom of their post that says "NOTIFY ME WHEN A REPLY IS POSTED" so they know when someone responds to the thread.
But everyone else who is not interested in these types of threads dont have to keep seeing them pop up on the list in the front page.
How does that sound???
I will be adding a mission statement soon too and some forum rules, explicitly, although I think most people know my position already.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
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FormerFF
3 thumbs up
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 2482
Location: Roswell, Georgia, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: |
#35 |
| sg wrote: |
As the admin, im put into a difficult position.
You cant make everyone happy, its just not possible.
I could say NO THIS and NO THAT, and then people cry CENSORSHIP!
If I dont censor at all, and then people complain about stuff that is posted.
There is a balance, but no matter where I set the line, people on BOTH ends of the bell curve complain.
What I can do is....
1) Move all PG related threads off the front page
2) Move all political threads off the front page
3) Move all religion threads off the front page
4) Move all threads that turn negative off the front page
5) repeat pattern....
This way, people who REALLY want to continue the conversation can, but they have to go look for it, or they can check the box at the bottom of their post that says "NOTIFY ME WHEN A REPLY IS POSTED" so they know when someone responds to the thread.
But everyone else who is not interested in these types of threads dont have to keep seeing them pop up on the list in the front page.
How does that sound???
I will be adding a mission statement soon too and some forum rules, explicitly, although I think most people know my position already. |
That sounds most excellent.  |
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Mrsposer
3 thumbs up
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 2102
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: |
#36 |
| SG, that sounds great! |
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fly n mater
3 thumbs up
Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 725
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:33 am Post subject: |
#37 |
| gtpowell wrote: |
| I read through the article with an open mind, re-read the article with an open mind and I must say I took no offense from the article. I read it for what it was trying to convey, and I believe for certain individual, it hit to close to home. As a non prejudice, non-biased pilot, it was not referring to me in any way. And, I fully believe certain points the author was trying to convey are justified. |
GT, I too read the article with an open mind. I too truely don't care what a person chooses to fly. I do mind when I'm called a bigot and a racist. Because I have just been labeled by some one that don't know me. I do mind when the same situation is exists on the PG side and its not brought up in the article. The problem exists on both sides but when only one side was editorialized upon it creates the impression of all HG pilots as being that way. Its like saying all white people hate black people. Not true.
| Quote: |
This website was far more enjoyable to participate in the past. Recent efforts of censorship, threads attacking religion and persons of religious faith with statements such as "Religion is the Root of all evil", individual members scolding members for posting as if they own this site and other fully biased posts with an intent to discredit and or shed negativity on certain populous, have taken away from the enjoyment I previously found here. |
I still find this site very enjoyable. Maybe if like you say being more choosy into which topics one reads can enhance your experience.
| Quote: |
SG,
I hope you can get a handle on the changing tone here. This used to be a place of enjoyment, camaraderie amongst pilots (friends) related to interesting and funny things that happen in our personal lives and in our flying community. Now, a great number of threads ooze negativity and controversy. "If I think it is bad, the whole world should know I think it is bad, hear all of my views on why it is bad, until I have convinced them all to side with me that, IT IS BAD” Well, I think this attitude is hazardous to the well being of this site and the HG community. It has the potential of driving away perspective HG.org members and certainly having a negative affect on some of the current members. In addition, it has significant potential of driving away future HG pilots. There are definitely several threads of recent I have found offensive, and do not reflect my views and/or beliefs whatsoever. I choose not to even get into the discussion because it is obvious from the initial tone it would be like talking to a brick wall. Yet, because I am a member of this forum and of the HG community, to the onlooker I may be classified as having the same view point. This I regret.
Just my 2-cents. |
I hear what you're saying here and I agree to some extent. Your last sentence there is exactly what I'm saying in reguards to that article. |
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gtpowell
2 thumbs up
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 339
Location: High Above So. California
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
#38 |
Matter,
The article does not say "All HG pilots" This is what you have read into it and is an example of my point.
We each have the freedom/opportunity to interpret this article in a manner that best fits our own desires. I was merely speaking for myself, stating I found no offence because I found no correlation between myself and the references used.
In addition you responded “Maybe if like you say being more choosy into which topics one reads………. “ I do choose which threads to read and which ones not to, especially of late. Although if the primary intent of this site is to gain exposure to HG and increase interest and membership, then I suggest to SG that some method be put in place to prevent offense to on-lookers and potential future pilots.
Here is an example that may typify my point. I am a Christian and I primarily surround myself with other Christians outside of HG. In an attempt to increase exposure to HG, I send my Christian friends to this site to better understand why I enjoy the sport and why they may also find enjoyment in it. Yet, when I find myself offended from post that attempt to demean my faith and morals, then why would I send anybody to this site. Now, you may not agree with this example, but I’m sure there are others on this forum that may. It is not about me being choosy, but about the ill-effects and offensiveness these post may have on potential new members and prospective pilots. Anything and everything written is a representation of HG pilots. If an interested party finds offense to what is here, then that party will seek out other locations and forums to become involved in. That may be a paragliding forum. |
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TomGalvin
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 3547
Location: ............... Pagosa Springs, Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: |
#39 |
| Wingspan34 wrote: |
| TomGalvin wrote: |
| Wingspan34 wrote: |
| I'm sure you recall that this topic was about a USHPA staff writter calling (certain?) HG pilots racists. |
He did not do that. You read that into it. |
Well Tom, once again we disagree. Here is part of what Mr. Messman did say - with significant words and phrases underlined. |
Prejudiced is not a synonym for racist. Racism is the most obvious example of prejudice, but a poor one for an already emotional issue. Putting words in Mr Messman's mouth does not help the community. You had a valid issue, that you twisted into a bogeyman. Stop doing that and I will have no issue with your PG posts. Just the facts without the histrionics please.
_________________
Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization.
Charles Lindbergh
Last edited by TomGalvin on Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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fly n mater
3 thumbs up
Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 725
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: |
#40 |
GT,
I too am a Christain and understand what you are saying there.
Very well said, very well said. |
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