So, I've been flying for 3 years now, primarily radial ramps, with some aerotowing. I've always felt like I did decent radial ramp launches, but this is the first time I've had a video of it. Thanks to Mr. Clark Harlow's death defying acrobatics of hanging off the side of the ramp at Henson's Gap, I now have a video of my launch. This was mid-day about a week ago, with pretty much nil wind to speak of. You'll also note Mr. PJWings on my right wire, and a distinct lack of a keel guy I could've done without a wire guy, but there were occasional thermals blowing through, and just prior to that launch I had to set the glider down due to the sudden gusty winds.
My own critique is that I do switch grips part-way through the launch, but I seem to maintain the nose angle through the switch. I probably could have attempted to take one more step on the ramp before I kicked into my harness. And lastly, I probably dove a little too much, likely wouldn't have got away with that at LMFP.
Anyway, anyone have any other critique to add?
Link
[/youtube] _________________ Airborne Sting 2 154XC
H2, FL, CL, FSL, AT
Michael means to kindly recommend doing a hook-in check just prior to launching. Why he didn't just say that, I don't know.
BACK TO THE VIDEO THAT MATTERS- It's hard to be analytical of GoPro/fisheye footage, so anything seen or said should be taken with that in mind.
I'll tell you what I did see, and really liked: You lower your nose as you go past the camera, around the curve of the ramp, and fly away. Note that this is relative to the horizon, and you are actually keeping a constant AofA. Few people grasp grasp this concept, nevermind demonstrate it. Very well done!
If I was going to critique anything, I would say your run was kind of half-assed. In your comments you said you could have taken another step, but for me it's really a lack of acceleration more than skipping the (unecessary) last step. It's a big ramp, you can dive off it, and you know it... you did enough to get yourself flying, and you did it with good AofA. As long as you recongnize that this lazy walk jog jog lay down style works fine here, and not other places, no biggie. Just don't forget to bring your RUN to other launch settings
The more speed you create in your launch, the less "dive away" you'll need.
No need to be too critical here. You could have run a bit longer- to 'pedal air, but it looked okay from here. The shallow dive Clark commented on was probably excessive, but you'll see a lot of the (frequent flying) Lookout pilots doing that on the light days, and that's okay! Just don't dive into the treetops!
Say, you're not hanging from your downtubes, are you?
Why not take a step or two closer to the red line before your run begins, and use the steeper portion of the ramp to accelerate more easily? In this case, gravity is your friend.
There are a few Lookout pilots that think the Henson's red line needs to be moved a couple of feet forward, but we're spoiled. Steeper ramp good, shallower ramp bad.
Next time you're at Lookout, check out the Bandit launch, if you haven't yet.. It's a short, steep grassy ramp (about 45 degrees) to a sheer rock face. Not a launch you want to screw up, but pretty much a no-brainer. The Bandit's great for light winds, no winds, or lightly tailing conditions. NEVER try to launch the Bandit in any winds over 10 mph, or in conditions requiring assistance.
Michael means to kindly recommend doing a hook-in check just prior to launching. Why he didn't just say that, I don't know.
Suppose I could do that, never hurts, but I always hang check with assistance prior to stepping on the ramp, and never leave my harness once I get in it.
AIRTHUG wrote:
I'll tell you what I did see, and really liked: You lower your nose as you go past the camera, around the curve of the ramp, and fly away. Note that this is relative to the horizon, and you are actually keeping a constant AofA. Few people grasp grasp this concept, nevermind demonstrate it. Very well done!
If I was going to critique anything, I would say your run was kind of half-assed. In your comments you said you could have taken another step, but for me it's really a lack of acceleration more than skipping the (unecessary) last step. It's a big ramp, you can dive off it, and you know it... you did enough to get yourself flying, and you did it with good AofA. As long as you recongnize that this lazy walk jog jog lay down style works fine here, and not other places, no biggie. Just don't forget to bring your RUN to other launch settings
The more speed you create in your launch, the less "dive away" you'll need.
Nice vid- thanks for posting!
Thanks for the feedback, I'll try to remember to adjust when I fly next time. I'm pleased from the perspective that I know I've harped alongside you on lowering the nose angle on a radial ramp as you go down and that I finally have evidence that I'm not a complete hypocrite. _________________ Airborne Sting 2 154XC
H2, FL, CL, FSL, AT
And no, in a thread titled "Critique my radial ramp launch" that video is also pretty much entirely off topic.
You want to discuss/debate/dictate people's pre-launch habits, great, just don't hijack someone else's thread about radial ramp technique.
Since this video starts with him on launch, we don't know if he did a hook-in check already, a hang check, a preflight, took a pee before putting his harness on, or drove a hybrid car to launch... Why are you critiquing what you don't know, didn't see, didn't ask about, and isn't what he asked for critique on??? WTF? _________________ Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/AIRTHUG
Since this video starts with him on launch, we don't know if he did a hook-in check already, a hang check, a preflight, took a pee before putting his harness on, or drove a hybrid car to launch... Why are you critiquing what you don't know, didn't see, didn't ask about, and isn't what he asked for critique on??? WTF?
Admittedly I did do all those things, except the part about the hybrid car... _________________ Airborne Sting 2 154XC
H2, FL, CL, FSL, AT
It looks like you jumped aboard instead of having the glider lift you off the launch. _________________ Paul H
U2 160 USHPA # 51178 KE7VOG
H4, FL, AT, PL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C, CL, AWCL, 360, HA,
USN ret. A & P mechanic
Very nice Keith! If only all of the lift hadn't been inverted that day
Regarding the position of the red line, don't put any trust in that!? It's just a guideline for those who don't have a specific plan of their own in place. If it's windy, I'll launch from beyond the red line at either site. If it's calm and consistent I'll start running from way back. Relatively speaking, the red line at Henson's is a bit further back than the red line at Lookout, that much is true.
Regarding jumping into the harness, it raises an interesting point that I've thought about relating to switchy, gusty days. I think I have it figured out, but I'd welcome discussion if I've failed to consider all aspects. I think there's a bit of a compromise that has to be made on days like this one. The good cycles were very light, like this one. However there were occasional strong gusts coming through from the right as well. In order to launch without falling into the harness one would have to start a few steps back and get a good run in. With switchy gusts rolling in that just isn't a safe way to play it. The way I've added it up is to start up closer to the line, build up as much speed as you can in the 2 steps you get, and then try to continue to run down the face of the ramp as much as you can until you are able to pull away with extra airspeed. In most cases the run down the face of the ramp turns into a fall into the harness at some point. _________________ http://pjwings.blogspot.com/
If you break it down into the simplest of terms... Your harness mains can become tight from the glider lifting up, or your body lowering away. Either can happen quickly, but neither should ever happen all at once.
I think it's a reasonable expectation that in 3 steps a pilot should be able to have the glider flying enough to lift it's own weight up and take the slack out of their mains? Two steps, maybe not...
But launching without the glider even lifting it's own weight yet turns a ramp launch into a cliff launch if you think about it in terms of airspeed... _________________ Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/AIRTHUG
If you break it down into the simplest of terms... Your harness mains can become tight from the glider lifting up, or your body lowering away. Either can happen quickly, but neither should ever happen all at once.
Interesting distinction. I never considered the full on 'jump' into the harness (because I would think of that as a botched launch) but was only thinking about the style we see in this video where Keith ends up diving away before the glider has completely lifted him off, if you see what I mean.
AIRTHUG wrote:
I think it's a reasonable expectation that in 3 steps a pilot should be able to have the glider flying enough to lift it's own weight up and take the slack out of their mains? Two steps, maybe not...
So basically, accelerate faster. This makes sense. The one time this hasn't worked for me is when I tried a no-wind launch from just beyond the red line at Henson's. It just didn't give me enough room to accelerate. I should have concentrated harder on getting the nose down so I could have gotten 2 or 3 more steps down the steeper face of the ramp.
AIRTHUG wrote:
But launching without the glider even lifting it's own weight yet turns a ramp launch into a cliff launch if you think about it in terms of
airspeed...
Yes, agreed. That is why I prefer to launch from even further back on light days. It's easy to build up enough airspeed to lift off if you reach the red line at a run. That's also why, on the light wind days that aren't consistent enough to trust a start from way back, I put emphasis on the notion of running down the face of the ramp. You can run down it a lot further than one would guess because the glider starts helping as you go. _________________ http://pjwings.blogspot.com/
I think it's a reasonable expectation that in 3 steps a pilot should be able to have the glider flying enough to lift it's own weight up and take the slack out of their mains? Two steps, maybe not...
So basically, accelerate faster.
If possible, yes... but also let the glider lift off your shoulders as you accelerate. It's hard to tell in this video, but he may have been going fast enough by his third step that the glider could have lifted itself, and he held it down a little with his hands.
To get overlay analytical, which I love to do, I think Keith could have pulled in and got another step or two in on the ramp, had the glider lift him off, launched with positive air speed, and then could have flown away with equal or possibly less altitude loss than he did in this example.
Like I said Keith, I'm aware that I'm just being over analytical at this point. I always try and see how I can improve even a good launch! To restore balance to the universe, let me say that your launch was much better than mine this day. I started at the same place, ran hard, but didn't get my nose low enough and the glider lifted me off at trim. I also popped my nose a few degrees when my hands rotated from grapevine to pistol. _________________ http://pjwings.blogspot.com/
A hang check shows the pilot that he/she is the correct height above the bar. It also assures the pilot that harness lines and straps are untangled.
The point I'm trying to make is that every pilot should make a second check to be very certain of this integral part of every flight. In many flying situations a hang check is performed and then is followed by a time interval prior to actual launch. In this time interval the pilot may unconsciously unhook to adjust or check something and then forget to hook in again. This has happened many times!
If, just before committing to a launch, a second check is done every time and this is made a habit, this tragic mistake could be eliminated. Habit is the key word here. This practice must be subconscious on the part of the pilot. As we know, there are many things on the pilot's mind before launch. Especially in a competition or if conditions are radical the flyer may be thinking about so many other things that something as simple as remembering to hook in is forgotten. Relying on memory won't work as well as a deeply ingrained subconscious habit.
In the new USHGA rating system, for each flight of each task "the pilot must demonstrate a method of establishing that he/she is hooked in, just prior to launch." The purpose here is obvious.
"a method" is vague; he might have demonstrated a method and we couldn't see it, or it occurred before this video started... Which leads me to:
"just prior to launch" is open to interpretation. To you it obviously means a few seconds before running. To someone else it might mean as they step up to the launch. At a site where you might pick up & put down the glider numerous times, are you required to do it numerous times? The SOP doesn't specify...
You cannot say with any validity that the pilot in this video violated that SOP. But if you think they did, why not just say hey I recommend blah blah blah. What purpose did posting a non-radial ramp launch of a different pilot and writing a riddle? _________________ Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/AIRTHUG
"a method" is vague; he might have demonstrated a method and we couldn't see it, or it occurred before this video started... Which leads me to:
"just prior to launch" is open to interpretation. To you it obviously means a few seconds before running. To someone else it might mean as they step up to the launch. At a site where you might pick up & put down the glider numerous times, are you required to do it numerous times? The SOP doesn't specify...
You cannot say with any validity that the pilot in this video violated that SOP. But if you think they did, why not just say hey I recommend blah blah blah. What purpose did posting a non-radial ramp launch of a different pilot and writing a riddle?
Maybe michael170 is actually...... _________________ H2
WW Eagle 180
In regards to that whole thing, I'll tell you the general policy at Henson's Gap.
You do not step onto that ramp with a glider without having first had a hang check. If you need to adjust, unhook, tinker, run a marathon, ect before launching, you get off the ramp. Local conditions dictate that one does not want to be on the ramp any longer than necessary, and you would certainly not want to be on the ramp without being in control of your glider. A roaring thermal could easy whip through and take you, and the glider, right off the side of a 125ft bluff. So once I, or anyone else, steps on to that ramp, we are committing to launch. _________________ Airborne Sting 2 154XC
H2, FL, CL, FSL, AT
"a method" is vague; he might have demonstrated a method and we couldn't see it, or it occurred before this video started... Which leads me to:
"just prior to launch" is open to interpretation. To you it obviously means a few seconds before running. To someone else it might mean as they step up to the launch.
You can’t see the forest, too many tree’s in the way.
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I could've done without a wire guy, but there were occasional thermals blowing through, and just prior to that launch I had to set the 
