| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Have any of my videos every been a bad influence? |
| Yes |
|
17% |
[ 21 ] |
| No |
|
42% |
[ 51 ] |
| Maybe |
|
0% |
[ 1 ] |
| I don't know |
|
7% |
[ 9 ] |
| Who cares? |
|
31% |
[ 37 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 119 |
|
|
blindrodie
3 thumbs up
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 3762
Location: Roeland Park, KS
|
 Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:40 am Post subject: |
 #61 |
Hay Jono I have been flying like that (pushing out in tight thermals) since I started.
It's how we do it here in Kansas on the flats where the thermals are bullets and tight down low (remember we are PLing and releasing at an average 1200 agl).
It's what you have to do to get up. I have never had any issues with this style. To each his own...
I voted NO. I just put on my big boy pants when I watch anyone's video. This sport is still "the wild west" as far as I'm concerned. It keeps it free and easy and weeds out the sloppy, the uncommitted, the undeserving.
You have to "earn" this sport. Some folks just don't like that...
 Jim
_________________
"Tow me up. I'll find my way down"
Kansas City Hang Glider Supplies
Guggenmos E7
WW U2 145
WW F1 195
FlyTec 6015
CG 1000
Tracer Plus
Organ Donor
Torrey Hawk #212 |
|
|
|
FPeel
3 thumbs up
Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: San Jose, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:41 am Post subject: |
#62 |
| NMERider wrote: |
For far too many volunteers within the sport, the ratio of criticism to understanding and appreciation is unacceptable. No good deed goes unpunished.  |
How very true and, in my experience, some of the worst offenders were my fellow volunteers.
NME, follow your heart and do what it tells you. Don't let public opinion get in the way of art. Being validated has its merits, but it is not a necessity unless you're trying to sell your work to the masses.
BTW, I do the "spin-to-stay-in" turn, too, and have for years without incident.
_________________
"If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space." - Anonymous |
|
|
|
AIRTHUG
3 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 6159
Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:44 am Post subject: |
#63 |
| wmstroud wrote: |
| But since you brought up the subject of safety, lets talk about loops. First , why? Do you not also think that when you post picture after picture of you upside down that your promoting and condoning this type of flying? I do. Your students also see this type of flying. I don't see how your calculated risk is any less than Johns. I understand what your trying to say and your right. Your seeing a possable tumble or spin and do not want your students practicing this type of behavior. There's an awful that we can and do get away with at altitude as you yourself have shown us time after time. Now I know your probably going to come back and defend aerobatics and state your in full control while John is wallering around on the edge of death. |
Excellent point- let me explain why I feel it's very different 
First- I make no claim that looping is safe. Never have. In fact- I've been pretty damn vocal about how dangerous aerobatics are! I've also been very vocal about how slow of a progression I took, and how it pains me to see others not following similar training regimen. I've also spend A LOT of time trying to set people on the path of how to learn these skills slowly and relatively safely. I don't say it's safe, AND I don't say don't do it... but I *DO* say do it as safely as possible.
As to your question of WHY? Why strap on a giant kite and fly off a mountain? Why try to pilot that kite hundreds of miles? Because it's fun? Because we like a good challenge? I dunno.... why ask why?
I of all people am not advocating NOT taking risks... which I think is where your confusion may lie? I am saying KNOW the risks you are accepting. I am saying take on the risk, knowingly, or don't take it on at all.... but unknowingly taking bigger risks than what you willingly accepted... now THAT is dangerous!
Jono thinks pushing out to full arm extension in broken lift is fine. I think it's very dangerous. I noted it, for Jon and for anyone else that wants to listen... and here we are, in a thread about people not kissing his butt enough 
_________________
Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/AIRTHUG |
|
|
|
remmoore
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1311
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:56 am Post subject: |
#64 |
| AIRTHUG wrote: |
| ...here we are, in a thread about people not kissing his butt enough |
His...or yours? 
What Jonathan does has no bearing on what I do. I would guess it's the same for you. Do his vids affect the flying of any pilots? That's the question, and I suspect the andswer is no.
RM |
|
|
|
AIRTHUG
3 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 6159
Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:10 am Post subject: |
#65 |
| remmoore wrote: |
What Jonathan does has no bearing on what I do. I would guess it's the same for you. Do his vids affect the flying of any pilots? That's the question, and I suspect the andswer is no. |
I agree, that is the question....
Jono has been pretty clear that he DOES think his videos have an impact
| NMERider wrote: |
| my videos had brought numerous new and past pilots into this sport and sold many new gliders and generated many new students yet I have never received one single expression of gratitude from any instructor, manufacturer or governing body of the sport and instead have to read copious amounts of bullshit from self-important little twats who think their shitdoesn'tstink. |
_________________
Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/AIRTHUG |
|
|
|
NMERider
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 7370
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:24 am Post subject: |
#66 |
| AIRTHUG wrote: |
| ...Jono has been pretty clear that he DOES think his videos have an impact... |
Yes. A positive impact. And the only person on this forum who can kiss my butt has been quoted above.  |
|
|
|
Mavi Gogun
1 thumbs up
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 973
Location: Istanbul (not Constantinople)
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:22 pm Post subject: |
#67 |
| remmoore wrote: |
| Do his vids affect the flying of any pilots? That's the question, and I suspect the andswer is no. |
Tell that to my wife- she sees stuff, compares what she does, then, full of desire, berates herself as a coward, second guessing the fear she feels. Lucky, she has me to point out the crazy s***. We get to talk about how it's difficult to discern safety from a video, not being in the air to judge. Maybe a long glide over a fence into a ball field was a good choice. What could he do if he suddenly dropped short? Let's talk about fence landings. Let's talk about judging glide, spot landing, and approach choices. Let's talk about other options. Where would you have landed? Why might that be better? Why not? No poll here is going to demonstrate anything. Why? Because it is a microcosm. Because of politics. Because the Bulgarian dude who shared a video with his friends can't say more than 15 words of English and doesn't really care to read this nonsense.
Personally, I dig seeing all sorts of choices- good, bad, and ugly; with a guide, all may have a positive impact on inexperienced pilots. However, some very bad choices don't look obviously so to the untrained eye- and some excellent choices, as we all know, have dangerous implications that go equally unrecognized. I'm not judging any of the practices depicted in Jonathan's work- only the assertion that this little drama here is going to demonstrate anything... or that it ever could have.
As long as Jonathan posts work, he'll receive feed back- and that's a good thing: praise and critique will produce better work. In the end, his is but one little mote in the tempest in this internet tea cup. Some videos are like a hammer- the end result depends on the end user. Some are like a plastic bag that comes with a kids toy that might benefit from a bold reminder about asphyxiation. The internet should come with a label 'warning: do not insert directly into head'. It doesn't. Instead, it has dissent, discussion -and sometimes- consensus.
Last edited by Mavi Gogun on Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
wmstroud
3 thumbs up
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 116
Location: Arlington, Tenessee
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:43 pm Post subject: |
#68 |
I think Jono"s videos are a very, very small part of the big picture of outside influence that will, in the end, dictate our future behavior. I mean I've seen Ryan do loops for quite awhile now and so far the bug hasn't bit me. To summerize, Ryan, be careful, Jono, suck it up and hold your head high, Me? I'll keep lurking in the back ground on my rebel rigid wing. Oh, one more thing. I too push out in the small bullet thermals when I shouldn't and it can be dangerous as hell in the right conditions. But I did get a 145 miler 3 weeks ago.
_________________
ATOS VQ, Easy RIser, Fledge II, Fledge III
Hang 4, 100 Mile Club, 150 Mile Club
Covert, Flytec 6030, Body by Hostess
Arlington, TN.
Tennessee Tree Topper Member
I hope I may die in my sleep as my grandfather did, instead of screaming like his passengers! |
|
|
|
dievhart
2 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1430
Location: Santa Cruz, CA (Fort Funston)
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:38 pm Post subject: |
#69 |
ok I can't hold back any longer...
I want to change my vote to "Maybe" but there is a clause.....I am experienced enough to know better then to do some of the stuff I see.....
Ryan, I wish I could loop like you, but you did the same thing JD does...
You put up a video where you slowed the top of your loop down to the point I could not understand what was going on until I realized what you did, it freaked me out.....that was messed up and a bad example of looping while not telling anyone you slowed it down (after in an editor).....but I know better than to do that and never would try ....but that is all JD needs to do I feel....not loop slow but add more info to the videos.
JD, I envy the fact you fly so much and have the time to (record and) edit almost every flight, even 10 hours edits, crazy but awesome....I wish....never mind I love my life.....but the one thing I think you could do to fix this issue is this.....
Like I said your art/work is awesome and can even be better by doing this....maybe?
Know and knowledge your bad choices on your videos, you have voice over if not in flight audio so just say "that was a bad move, and now I have no way out but my confidence in the day will come through and pull me out of this bad situation".....or....."well, now I have no where to go but that tiny little field (that was a bad choice back there)..but I know the glide of my T2 will get me there (unless I hit massive sink)"......
And after thinking about this more, I think you are adding this stuff more and more to your videos....and this is all newer pilots need....to know when a bad choice was made...
I know I have no room to talk docking with other glider and the like but I know my risks and the risks I am putting others in...and still choose to do it...
I have no desire to go XC, (fly camping in BIG SUR though, that could be fun)...but I still watch every XC video I see, just because it's hang gliding and my passion......
I do want to loop, a few of my gliders, but I have no desire to do it in the wrong conditions, or before I am really ready to do it and have fun at it and not just holding on for dear life.....
You JD and Ryan are some of my flying models in some ways but I know better than to copy either of you.....
Now, where are these XC videos Ryan? Your a GoPro dealer and flew a few XC flights for the first time and we didn't get any video of it? Whats up with that? Your not saving it so you can edit it down to something you will sell are you?
Diev
_________________
Diev Hart
T2C 154, Lightspeed 4, Super Sport 153,
SL200, U2 160, Predator 142
FL, CL, FSL, AWCL, RLF, AT, TFL, TUR, XC, MNTR
http://www.dievhart.com/hangglide.html
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hgphotos/
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25414 (HG.org Camera Mounts) |
|
|
|
Bobfly
3 thumbs up
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 3699
Location: San Diego, Ca.
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:52 pm Post subject: |
#70 |
Time for me to jump in. I always analyze any flying vid that I watch of any type of aircraft to see what the pilot did in a particular situation, be it aerobatics or landing or maneuvering in turbulent air. With Jon's vids, I tend to focus on how he controls his wing in the rough stuff and what kind of terrain he uses to find lift. Every pilot stops what he's doing to watch another pilot land and then subconsciously judges the quality of that landing (is he gonna log 3 landings after that bounce!?!). I don't emulate anything I see in any vid. I don't desire to fly like Jon or Robert (relate2) or Ryan although I love watching their vids and flying vicariously with them in their videos. I desire to become the best pilot I can be on my own terms and hope to one day earn the respect of my fellow hg pilots thru my own efforts. But these vids are just a tiny part of the huge amount of flying experience I absorb and are for the most part, just a way to temper the flying fever when I can't be out there myself. A video can't impart the "feel" a pilot has for his wing or the texture of the air they are flying thru so they are mostly only useful to the actual pilot for a learning tool. I learn a great deal from watching what I did while remembering the "feel". Not so much with someone else's vid. Yes, you can learn from others vids but I think it's very limited and their mostly for pure intertainment. I voted "no". His vid's don't influence me one way or the other except for possibly thinking "God, I'd hate to have to walk out of there" when I see some of the terrain he fly's over. Keep 'em coming, Jono. And you too, Ryan. By the way, when are we going to see some instructional vids on making the perfect flare or flying the perfect approach? You are a consumate pilot, Ryan. Share your wealth of knowledge. We need a really good H2 landing vid that focuses strictly on SS wings and novice skill sets. No T2's or U2's or rigids. We can't all be blessed with one of your landing clinics.
_________________
Freedom 170 FR |
|
|
|
TomGalvin
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 3547
Location: ............... Pagosa Springs, Colorado
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject: |
#71 |
I voted yes,but only because of a few of your videos. I've discussed them with my students when they bring them up. If you want details it will cost you a beer in the LZ at Villa during Colorado Fly Week.
_________________
Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization.
Charles Lindbergh |
|
|
|
NMERider
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 7370
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:29 pm Post subject: |
#72 |
| TomGalvin wrote: |
| I voted yes,but only because of a few of your videos. I've discussed them with my students when they bring them up. If you want details it will cost you a beer in the LZ at Villa during Colorado Fly Week. |
Hopefully whatever the issue was, it got resolved and your students were made better pilots by gaining new understanding though observation and inquiry. Thanks for the offer!  |
|
|
|
NMERider
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 7370
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: |
#73 |
| Bobfly wrote: |
| ....We need a really good H2 landing vid that focuses strictly on SS wings and novice skill sets. No T2's or U2's or rigids. We can't all be blessed with one of your landing clinics. |
I have two such videos. I need to locate them and re-post. |
|
|
|
NMERider
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 7370
|
|
|
|
TomGalvin
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 3547
Location: ............... Pagosa Springs, Colorado
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject: |
#75 |
| Bobfly wrote: |
| We need a really good H2 landing vid that focuses strictly on SS wings and novice skill sets. No T2's or U2's or rigids. We can't all be blessed with one of your landing clinics. |
Jim Rooney has already done this over at the OZ Report.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26379&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=11
_________________
Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization.
Charles Lindbergh |
|
|
|
J Fritsche
3 thumbs up
Joined: 21 Mar 2010
Posts: 474
Location: Lompoc, CA ("central coast")
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:31 pm Post subject: |
#76 |
Disclaimer: I only read a few replies on the first page of this thread. My two cents: your posts do not have a negative impact on anyone who takes the time to understand what you do. You pursue hard-core XC flying in the very restrictive, challenging, tricky environment of southern California. You've done amazing things. You've taken chances that I would never take. You've had close calls. But you know what you're getting yourself into. I don't see where you encourage others to take the same risks. I've been watching others loop and do a variety of other things in hang gliders for 20+ years, and I choose to pursue a very different kind of flying. I vicariously enjoy your exploits. Party on, Wayne...you're not going to be the sole reason some newbie does something stupid.
_________________
Saturn 147, Predator 142 |
|
|
|
NMERider
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 7370
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:24 pm Post subject: |
#77 |
| J Fritsche wrote: |
| Disclaimer: I only read a few replies on the first page of this thread. My two cents: your posts do not have a negative impact on anyone who takes the time to understand what you do. You pursue hard-core XC flying in the very restrictive, challenging, tricky environment of southern California. You've done amazing things. You've taken chances that I would never take. You've had close calls. But you know what you're getting yourself into. I don't see where you encourage others to take the same risks. I've been watching others loop and do a variety of other things in hang gliders for 20+ years, and I choose to pursue a very different kind of flying. I vicariously enjoy your exploits. Party on, Wayne...you're not going to be the sole reason some newbie does something stupid. |
John, I could not have said this any better. Cheers, Jonathan |
|
|
|
BRP
3 thumbs up
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 211
Location: Idaho
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:34 am Post subject: |
#78 |
Voted who cares! Keep em coming Jonathan!
Got to cast the 100th vote to round out the numbers.
_________________
Blaine
Falcon 1 -- 195
Ramair 146
H4 |
|
|
|
CAL
3 thumbs up
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 3464
Location: OGDEN, UT
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:10 am Post subject: Re: Have any of my videos ever been a bad influence? |
#79 |
| NMERider wrote: |
| NMERider wrote: |
| Let's get to the point on this issue. If anyone has any evidence to support this claim then please cite specific examples of of exactly how this is so. |
Over 1400 views on this thread and 15 "yes" votes and not one single specific example cited of exactly how any of my videos has been a bad influence.  |
i have only posted a few videos and have been notified on 2 of them to delete them and realized that i should
the reason why is because i didn't want it to get to where there may be any evidence of exactly how it hurt the sport or anyone else
i would feel terrible if i was the cause of that, your videos have been a learning experience for me so i give you the THANKS you deserve ! do i go right out and do what you do, no, in fact because of seeing some of the situations that XC pilots get into, i am more cautious about it and seek to get more education,
YOUR VIDEOS ARE WHAT IS HAPPENING OUT THERE !
IT IS UP TO ME TO DECIDE IF I FEEL IT IS SAFE FOR ME OR NOT !
when i started this sport there was no FAR or any regulations, if i got hurt or killed, it would have been, to bad for him, now days it's to bad for him and the sport and it just got worse because of our insurance problems due to many claims and law suits
with that said, we need to lean on the safe side of things, keep your videos coming and allow Ryan or others to come in and make contrary post and state this is not for all pilots and don't take it personal,
you are doing your part and Ryan and others are doing there's, making your videos educational
and it makes you look to other pilots, man that NME has big stones
_________________
Explore nature from the eyes of an Eagle |
|
|
|
michael170
1 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Mar 2012
Posts: 144
Location: norcal
|
|
|
|
|
Unanswered
Highest rated...
Topics
