Here's a little launch & landing practice from yesterday.....
Not bad for an old fart ... you getting tired of running?
It's even worse than that. I'm planning on landing on the cart in the future.
Why did you move both your hands to your base tube while mid-way into your launch run?
Note: if I don't follow up for a while, it's day #1 of the Santa Cruz Flats Race. I just got in my AT practice in time to compete. That's why I did the scooter towing on Friday.
How did you like the scooter tow training? _________________ Wills Wing U2 160
"Better to have a shorter life that is full of what you enjoy doing, than a long life spent in a miserable way." - Alan Watts
3 of my 10 training hill runs on 6.8.12. All FSL and less than 10mph wind with small thermals. Staying out of the middle of the field for the students.....until they left
3 of my 10 training hill runs on 6.8.12. All FSL and less than 10mph wind with small thermals. Staying out of the middle of the field for the students.....until they left
Hey Chris, Do you think you can repeat all the pointers you gave me over the phone? It was good info for landing unforgiving topless gliders. Cheers, Jonathan
Landing at Butlers. Seems like a long time spent high up on the down tubes. I was taught (am being taught) to spend time closer to base with the hands going high just to push the flare. Am I missing something?
Landing at Butlers. Seems like a long time spent high up on the down tubes. I was taught (am being taught) to spend time closer to base with the hands going high just to push the flare. Am I missing something?
he is flying a rigid, it has control surfaces for roll
the reason to keep your hands low on a flex is because if you get bumped you need to be in a position to really move your weight....his rigid isn't weight shift in roll so he can get away with the higher arm position _________________ TSA, DHS, NDAA and SOPA Seig Heil!
When setting up an approach I go through a check list (no specific order) which includes:
1. Switch from applying pressure to bumping for weight shift. Bumping is better for small corrections when on short final. Bump, then back to center. Don't push and hold because it will lead to PIO. Bump twice if the first one didn't do what you wanted it to do. Pushing also leads to gripping the bars too tight. Light touch is better.
2. Flair up and above your head. If you can see your arms, you are pushing forward, not up. This one matters more than anything. If you find yourself chasing the glider after a flair to prevent a whack, you pushed forward. Forget about kicking your legs back, or anything else, just hands high and push up and behind your head with full extension, then hold it.
3. Keep your eyes on the horizon.
4. If you flare early and need to do a second pump, pull in fast and go right into a 2nd flare after ballooning. Not ideal but also no need to panic. Just pull in, drop back into ground effect and plan on flaring real soon.
5. I've found that I can either flare hard or run out a landing, not both. If you're in a hard flare there's really no way to run beyond one, maybe two steps. Decide ahead of time which type of landing you're going to do. _________________ T2C
*snip* Forget about kicking your legs back, or anything else, just hands high and push up and behind your head with full extension, then hold it.
Forget about keeping your legs back only if you want to throw a useful tool away. Sure, depending on the flare method, a good upward thrust can be critical- but less so when all of your posture is contriving to help... including feet.
chriswvv wrote:
If you flare early and need to do a second pump, pull in fast and go right into a 2nd flare after ballooning. Not ideal but also no need to panic. Just pull in, drop back into ground effect and plan on flaring real soon.
Given that this advice would only be useful to a novice, that is a formula for lawn-darting. Don't panic- sure, always good advice- then don't take back your flare. If you are mid flare you may check your rise by pausing briefly before completing the snap- but since you weren't sensitive enough in the first place, this will probably be late -or too long- and you will be faced with becoming a deluxe lawn dart again.
Flare early? Hold it high- like your life depends on it -'cuz it may- all the way to the ground. Depending on the kite, you can drop it down from more than a wing span. I have. What I haven't seen is a novice pilot- you know, the folks who flare that early -successfully execute a low level whip stall double pump flare. The proposition that a pilot capable of radically misjudging the flare window will be able to execute an advanced skill with critical precision is unlikely at best.
chriswvv wrote:
5. I've found that I can either flare hard or run out a landing, not both. If you're in a hard flare there's really no way to run beyond one, maybe two steps. Decide ahead of time which type of landing you're going to do.
Deciding ahead of time is great advice. You can't do both at once- but you can -sometimes MUST- do both in quick succession. Sure, don't reach with your feet while flaring- keep them back to help with the flare; flaring aggressively will throw your feet into the action position- then you can run with your arms held high, as fast as you must. Why would you need to? Well, try landing in a nice tail wind. Suddenly, all sorts of possibilities open up- not because you want them to, but because you must. You may take many more than 2 steps.
Last edited by Mavi Gogun on Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:42 am; edited 1 time in total
*snip* Forget about kicking your legs back, or anything else, just hands high and push up and behind your head with full extension, then hold it.
Forget about keeping your legs back only if you want to throw a useful tool away. Sure, depending on the flare method, a good upward thrust can be critical- but less so when all of your posture is contriving to help... including feet.
chriswvv wrote:
If you flare early and need to do a second pump, pull in fast and go right into a 2nd flare after ballooning. Not ideal but also no need to panic. Just pull in, drop back into ground effect and plan on flaring real soon.
Given that this advice would only be useful to a novice, that is a formula for lawn-darting. Don't panic- sure, always good advice- then don't take back your flare. If you are mid flare you may check your rise by pausing briefly before completing the snap- but since you weren't sensitive enough in the first place, this will probably be late -or too long- and you will be faced with becoming a deluxe lawn dart again.
Flare early? Hold it high- like your life depends on it -'cuz it may- all the way to the ground. Depending on the kite, you can drop it down from more than a wing span. I have. What I haven't seen is a novice pilot- you know, the folks who flare that early -successfully execute a low level whip stall double pump flare.
chriswvv wrote:
5. I've found that I can either flare hard or run out a landing, not both. If you're in a hard flare there's really no way to run beyond one, maybe two steps. Decide ahead of time which type of landing you're going to do.
Deciding ahead of time is great advice. You can't do both at once- but you can -sometimes MUST- do both in quick succession. Sure, don't reach with your feet while flaring- keep them back to help with the flare; flaring aggressively will throw your feet into the action position- then you can run with your arms held high, as fast as you must. Why would you need to? Well, try landing in a nice tail wind. Suddenly, all sorts of possibilities open up- not because you want them to, but because you must.
Taking a flare back can and will put you in the dirt....trust me _________________ I have a fever…And the only prescription… is more Cowbell!!
If you want to pick a government to trust....why not this one!
....Taking a flare back can and will put you in the dirt....trust me
Tim, It can be done very effectively and I've watched Chris do it w/ excellent results on several flights. Somewhere, I have video of one of these. Note: Chris' hook-in weight is at the low end for the T2C 144 and his stall speed is much lower than tubs-o-lard in 50# harnesses like me.
If you flare early and need to do a second pump, pull in fast and go right into a 2nd flare after ballooning. Not ideal but also no need to panic. Just pull in, drop back into ground effect and plan on flaring real soon.
Given that this advice would only be useful to a novice, that is a formula for lawn-darting. Don't panic- sure, always good advice- then don't take back your flare. If you are mid flare you may check your rise by pausing briefly before completing the snap- but since you weren't sensitive enough in the first place, this will probably be late -or too long- and you will be faced with becoming a deluxe lawn dart again....
Dude! I have observed over a dozen of Chris' landings and what he is saying works for him but it applies to a lightly-loaded T2C 144. Much of what Chris has described also has worked for me. I guess Chris might have mentioned what he is flying and his hook-in weight..
Jason is another pilot who flies the same glider, harness and same hook-in weight as Chris. Pilots need to stop and consider the total configuration of each and every system. There are many parts to each system and the total combination affects how things work or fail.
The notion that one-method applies to every combination of pilot, harness, glider, and weather is utterly ludicrous and needs to be addressed when pilots post their personal experiences and when forum members post replies. Even two of the exact same model glider may land noticeably differently. Or the same glider may land much differently whether it's in 1/4 or zero VG.
Last edited by NMERider on Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total
....Taking a flare back can and will put you in the dirt....trust me
Tim, It can be done very effectively and I've watched Chris do it w/ excellent results on several flights. Somewhere, I have video of one of these. Note: Chris' hook-in weight is at the low end for the T2C 144 and his stall speed is much lower than tubs-o-lard in 50# harnesses like me.
I wonder if energy retention has something to do with it. Not that Im a expert but it seems when I try this method the first attempt at a flare wipes out any energy left in a falcon, and im in the dirt every time. I dont take my flare back anymore _________________ I have a fever…And the only prescription… is more Cowbell!!
If you want to pick a government to trust....why not this one!
....I wonder if energy retention has something to do with it. Not that Im a expert but it seems when I try this method the first attempt at a flare wipes out any energy left in a falcon, and im in the dirt every time. I dont take my flare back anymore
Tim, The pitch response on a Falcon is like half as fast as a T2C and so it's probably not even possible. The energy retention is no different since airspeed is no longer a factor.
What worries me about a Falcon is the tendency to drop a wing. The T2 has a lot more washout than the Falcon when the VG is 1/4 or less. The U2 even more so. So the U2 and T2 can be flared pretty high and dropped without hitting a wingtip. I'm not sure about the highest I've ever flared a Falcon and held it but it was nowhere near as high as my old T2.
Last edited by NMERider on Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total
I have successfully done the double pump in gliders ranging from an eagle 164 to a t2c....the most spectacular of which I did on my sensor......I was overshooting the postage stamp at horse and probably 20 feet off the ground....i gave it a hard push to stall, immediately pulled back in, and immediately reflared.......i came down quite softly, with like 2 feet left in the LZ.i would say i went from flying 20 feet off the ground getting 12-1 to coming down at 1-1 I don't think i even had to take many steps.....
it can be done.....its not pretty but it works...if i flare a little early i'll just hold it and at the top of the climb finish the rest of my flare and take the 10 ft drop
I only use the double pump when i am rapidly running out of real estate _________________ TSA, DHS, NDAA and SOPA Seig Heil!
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