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AIRTHUG
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Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 6160
Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
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 Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
 #61 |
| davisstraub wrote: |
Two stepper is as good as a no stepper. |
Not if you find yourself landing downwind.
| dave hopkins wrote: |
Flaring to hit a spot is bad
Setting up approach and executing it to a safe result is what counts. |
That's why the scoring prioritized "perfect" (no steps) and "great" (1 or 2 steps) over landing placement. If I remember correctly a "great" in the first ring and a "perfect" in the second ring both scored higher than a "normal" on the bull.
Like you say, not everyone "got" that, though... But it's hard to argue that scoring system encouraged their stupidity... Sometimes ya just can't fix stupid 
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Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
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pjwings
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Joined: 20 Aug 2009
Posts: 2013
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
#62 |
| davisstraub wrote: |
| Two stepper is as good as a no stepper. |
Cool man. You like 2 steppers, I like no steppers. This is a thread about the importance of helping each other become better and safer at landings. I like the idea of rewriting the notion of a spot landing contest as a good-safe landing contest. I don't really care how it's scored.
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NMERider
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Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 7483
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:18 pm Post subject: |
#63 |
| AIRTHUG wrote: |
| ....Where I take a harder line is when a pilot clearly lacks a full-flare-complete-stop from their bag of tricks... Yet repeatedly puts themselves in situations that require it. That's when I feel compelled to speak up, just as the OP in this thread suggests... |
Well, guess what? Thanks in large to part your offline coaching from a few years back when I recently landed in a gully between two bushes I was able to stop the glider in mid-air and let it drop 4-5' and did not take on step or drop my Sensor. And again more recently when I made an error that placed me over a boulder-strewn wash and was faced with clearing another 4' high bush, I pulled it off with one step and the Sensor never even touched the ground. I know better than anyone where my bag of tricks is and where it isn't, which is why I started that other thread when two of my very conservative flying buddies broke their arms flying Sport 2s and Tracer-style harnesses. Now THAT, is disturbing to me just like what happened at the ECC is disturbing to Matt.
I know damn well what the consequences are for the risks I take and also when I get lazy and let my guard down or get a case of the stupids. Fear is always my co-pilot and when it leaves, I land ASAP! |
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davisstraub
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Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 1769
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject: |
#64 |
| Quote: |
| Not if you find yourself landing downwind. |
Ah, I believe the context was a spot landing contest.
Also, note the earlier reference here: http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28153&start=5 to the superiority of the two stepper with a back plate harness.
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Davis Straub at the Oz Report |
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NMERider
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Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 7483
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:37 pm Post subject: |
#65 |
| davisstraub wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Not if you find yourself landing downwind. |
Ah, I believe the context was a spot landing contest.
Also, note the earlier reference here: http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28153&start=5 to the superiority of the two stepper with a back plate harness. |
Rooney is talking about the 2-step flare. It has nothing to do with the number of times your feet touch the ground. |
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lostgriz
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Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 1937
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:42 pm Post subject: |
#66 |
In my mind, I know that I will not be perfect every time, or even most of the time, but that is always my goal with regard to my landings. When it comes to the "spot" I always have a spot in mind when I land, but I will not let the importance of hitting the spot compromise my attempt to have the best landing that I can. When I can see that my spot is not going to work with the approach that I have setup, I focus on flairing at the right time rather then when I hit the spot.
I think it is important to always have a spot that you are aiming for, but not be so fixated on the spot that you flair too early or fly into the ground. Aim small miss small.
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Wills Wing U2 160
"Better to have a shorter life that is full of what you enjoy doing, than a long life spent in a miserable way." - Alan Watts
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davisstraub
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Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 1769
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:54 pm Post subject: |
#67 |
You are correct there NME.
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Davis Straub at the Oz Report |
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Odakyu-sen
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Joined: 31 Jul 2010
Posts: 132
Location: Auckland
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:56 pm Post subject: |
#68 |
| AIRTHUG wrote: |
I don't think I've ever talked about full-flare vs running landing using terms like 'right' or 'wrong'. In fact, I'm sure I've stated numerous times that both have their place and it's very situational dependent.
It's all about which will yield a bigger safety margin in a given scenario. : |
I agree. Good landings should achieve functional rather that stylistic goals. In other words, a good landing will minimize risk to the pilot, the hang glider, and other parties and property on the ground.
Last edited by Odakyu-sen on Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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davisstraub
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Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 1769
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:57 pm Post subject: |
#69 |
I should have referred to the moon walk.
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Davis Straub at the Oz Report |
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AIRTHUG
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Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 6160
Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:57 pm Post subject: |
#70 |
NME- that's great!!!
Why aren't you spreading THOSE videos around! Show aspiring XC pilots what skills to aspire toward and why... And show potential/future pilots that even in extreme situations landings can be soft.
You post videos like that and all you'll hear from me is  and 
I might still comment to newer pilots about more concervative decision making to avoid those situations... But if you have the skills to do it relatively safely, party on Whayne...
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Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
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ddreg
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Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Pnt.ot.Mtn, bunny hill
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:37 pm Post subject: |
#71 |
| AIRTHUG wrote: |
| I typed this entire post on my iPhone while driving to Marshall/Crestline for a landing clinic. |
As much as I respect you, I got to say, thats just sad. I'm a motorcyclist most of the time and something like this will probably be the death of me. |
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Mavi Gogun
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 978
Location: Istanbul (not Constantinople)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:28 pm Post subject: |
#72 |
| lostgriz wrote: |
| I think it is important to always have a spot that you are aiming for, but not be so fixated on the spot that you flair too early or fly into the ground. Aim small miss small. |
I strongly agree- but with an important clarification of what a spot is for.
First, having a spot means having a plan. Having a plan means that you've considered the challenges of the approach, and will not be surprised BY YOUR OWN REACTIONS when things deviate.
Second, and just as critical: a spot is not just the optimal point of touch down- but the point I must not fly past. I judge landing in-field short of the spot a much greater success than landing in-field long of the spot. Why? Because landing short when free of obstructions (here, my definition of "in-field") typically has far fewer consequences than landing long. Landing long, options shrink, pressure compresses.
Being able to drop the kite from a couple of meters is a great skill to have. Sure, in spot landing contests, ego spurs pilots to exceed their development- and highlight deficiencies (such as the impact of ego on decision making). Great control of the glider, without control of ego = out of control. Talk about adverse conditions! I followed a friend to the hospital after he took the keel to the back of his helmet attempting to land short on a spot down wind, and right next to a hanger (so placed to allow the judges to sip beer in the shad). AWCL, RLF, TUR, X-C- there should be an EGO sign-off! Then, when performing an intervention, we could ask to see the card first. "Ah... I can see from your ratings that you aren't going to be receptive..." ;) |
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mrcc
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Joined: 19 Jul 2010
Posts: 505
Location: Auckland
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:18 pm Post subject: |
#73 |
Last edited by mrcc on Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:13 am; edited 3 times in total |
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mrcc
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Joined: 19 Jul 2010
Posts: 505
Location: Auckland
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:09 am Post subject: |
#74 |
| AIRTHUG wrote: |
To give you an idea of how strongly I feel about trying to help you, I typed this entire post on my iPhone while driving to Marshall/Crestline for a landing clinic. I truly hope you will be there, not to fight but to learn (from the group)... I learn something every clinic I do, so I'm sure you could too |
Ryan, you are widely respected for your endless passion towards promoting more safety with regards to improving ones landings. Unfortunately most of us will never have the opportunity to attend one of your clinics, but equally we all appreciate your message. What would be a better outcome for you to allow someone at Marshall/ Crestline to produce a video of one your clinics, so maybe others may benefit indirectly.
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ChattaroyMan
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Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 1820
Location: Chattaroy, WA -USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:48 am Post subject: |
#75 |
Great thread. I could improve my landings. And, I'd like to enter a landing contest. But, I don't want to go anywhere to do it. Can we have a hg.org video landing contest? I'm thinking uploading clips of landings only (approach, final, landing) that have information on wind conditions, temperature, elevation, terrain conditions, pilot weight vs. glider size, etc. etc. - I'd enter a video or 2 or 3 to be judged/critiqued.
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Hangskier
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Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 857
Location: Eastern NC, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:40 am Post subject: |
#76 |
Great thread Matt. I think landings are more secondary to the pilots that learn to aero tow vs foot launch or (flat landers vs hillers). I started soaring before I learned to land on my feet. I think those pilots learning now that start out with a surface tow system will have better landings.
I sure wish I had learned better landing long ago, it would have saved me a down tube. But now, it sure is fun landing out in a unknown area with a good landing.
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1st Flight/Solo Nov 1993 |
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