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Mavi Gogun
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 973
Location: Istanbul (not Constantinople)
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 Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject: |
 #41 |
| Mavi Gogun wrote: |
| soaring wrote: |
| It's only going to be available in one size. 14.2 squaremeters. It's not going to get a complete DHV certification. |
Is there such thing as a partial certification? ...or is that marketing spin for "uncertified"? |
That wasn't rhetoric building to support a position- it was a real question. Anybody have a clue?
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soaring
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Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 93
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:00 pm Post subject: |
#42 |
| FMAN wrote: |
| It's funny that they went through the effort of actually acquiring my 710 (I'm sure enough it was mine to post this) to somewhat duplicate it instead of having enough understanding that photos online could be fairly easily used. |
Jesus Christ - I won't even comment on this
| FMAN wrote: |
| Some pictures of the crossbar/leading edge junction should confirm why it can not pass DHV nor HGMA stress tests. |
I don't know much about the development process. But I think I'm right when I guess that they took the Spyder 15 frame and made a different sail with 14.2 squaremeters instead of 15. They increased the aspect ratio and made the tips bigger. The Skyrunner has two nose battens instead of just one on the Spyder. Don't know what else is different.
The Spyder 15 is DHV certified so I see no reason why the same frame (or similar frame) used on the Skyrunner would cause the crossbar/leading edge junction to fail a stresstest.
The Spyder is by far the best selling high performance kingpost glider in Europe. The Skyrunner is not intended to replace the Spyder.
They are not submitting it for a DHV test just now. Maybe they wait to see what the demand is. At first it's going to be aimed at markets in France, Italy, Switzerland and Spain which are big markets for Seedwings Europe. And those markets don't demand a DHV test. With 25 years of experience in hang glider manufacturing and development Manfred Bangheri has assured me that the Skyrunner is completely airworthy.
| FMAN wrote: |
| The Skyrunner is nothing more than a re-introduction of the 610 with washout struts and the original (inferior) 710 air foil. |
The 610 is 20 years old. If the word "re-introduction" should be used at all it would be a re-introduction of Seedwings Europe's own Merlin which has a profile developed by Austrian national team pilot and aeronautical engineer Martin Jursa. But that was a 1996 design and I'm quite sure that their designs have evolved over time.
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Proficiency: Static line towing
Rating: Safepro 4
Country: Denmark
Glider: Crossover 15, Harness: SR, Helmet: Skyrunner, Vario: IQ Basic GPS |
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st1lgar
3 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 341
Location: Oak Ridges, ON
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:59 am Post subject: |
#43 |
... and counting
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"Men were not meant to leave the Earth. Spend too much time in the clouds and you never want to come back down again. I know skinchangers who've tried hawks, owls, ravens. Even in their own skins, they sit moony, staring up at the bloody blue" -- Hoggon
George R.R. Martin |
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FMAN
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Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 1181
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:07 am Post subject: |
#44 |
Soren,
You are the Seedwings Europe web designer and you have no idea about the development process? It's not that complicated, especially when it's known the Bangheri brothers learned from Bob Trampenau in Santa Barbara, who started them out building frames and trading complete sails for tubing and some money.
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Fred Bickford |
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paicolman
Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 61
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:12 am Post subject: |
#45 |
I didn't know about seedwings in the US, but the austrian seedwings gliders are good products, know a lot of pilots here in switzerland (not sweden...) flying many of these gliders, from Merlin, my beloved old Kestrel, Spaces, crossovers, spyders...
I don't know how much you can tell if one HG is "copy" from another, they are pretty similar, and the published photo of the 710 would look maybe similar to a Merlin, but not even my Kestrel looks like it:
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redtail58
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Joined: 05 Nov 2009
Posts: 13
Location: planet earth
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:00 pm Post subject: |
#46 |
| Seedwings Europe and Seedwings USA only have one thing in common: just one word. There is nothing else in common except that both have curved tips, stainless steel cable and aluminum tubes. The sweep angles (nose angles) are different, the frame design, VG system, kingpost design, control bar, sail planforms, sail layout, airfoil design, tangs ... nothing is similar. Europe has 5 models and USA has one. The most notable difference is that one company has grown and the other has not. Each business owner in this case has his own goals and chooses how much to invest in their respective companies. Building one glider at a time is an art, but it also requires the least financial commitment.
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FMAN
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Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 1181
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:13 pm Post subject: |
#47 |
While I'm riding my withdrawal wave because I haven't flown in over three months. Astronaut posted earlier in this topic the S.F. GmbH impersonated a S. American pilot and bought my 710 from Trampenau. That isn't true. If they actually did acquire it, they merely purchased it from the customer in Uruguay. There was no giving Bob some fictional name and tricking him into selling it to them. Hopefully the pilot in Uruguay is happily flying the first 710 145 and all of this drama is an attempt to discredit me for my reluctance to quiet. 
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Fred Bickford |
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FMAN
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Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 1181
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:51 pm Post subject: |
#48 |
| FMAN wrote: |
| Some pictures of the crossbar/leading edge junction should confirm why it can not pass DHV nor HGMA stress tests. |
Because as Bob and other manufacturers have learned, topless gliders with four washout struts (sprogs) rely upon a certain amount of torsional stability from the strength of crossbar and a king post hang glider obviously doesn't have one so either the leading edge / crossbar junction is over or under built. If its overbuilt there's unfavorable weight out on the tips and if its under built, it won't pass stress tests. 
http://www.seedwings.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=66
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Fred Bickford |
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