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Bobfly
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #21   
Jason wrote:
old newbie wrote:
Here's a few pictures.

Steve Forslund

that bottom one looks absolutely terrifying......i'd be throwing the laundry




Ditto, but I still would like to learn PGing. But hang gliding is at the soul of flying like a bird or superman. You just can't deny that point. But pging would still be fun under the right conditions. Wink

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HangDog
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #22   
old newbie wrote:
Nice trolling hang dog where to start?

"I would rather fly a hang glider simply because they are safer then PG right off the bat! "
Neither are safe or unsafe they are inanimate, that is the job of the pilot.

"Besides, they let anyone fly a PG and there's a reason for that!"
Who is they? FAA allows anyone to fly hang gliders or paragliders.

"The reason PG pilots think HG sucks"
I don't know any PG pilots that thinks this, though some do wonder about the sport since often they see pilots hang out all day set up and then break down and go home. If they go to forums they sometimes get the wrong impression that hang pilots are old bitter men trying to live in the past.


Jason his chute was already open when the Gopro caught this image. Plenty dynamic!

Steve Forslund

HangDog wrote:
Look here's the bottom line.

I would rather fly a hang glider simply because they are safer then PG right off the bat! WHY??? Simply because a hang glider is built for all types of flying when it comes to Mother Nature so to speak. Yes all aircraft have their limits but since a PG has no structure to support it's sail or making it stronger in the air like an *Aircraft Should be* and can collapse in a blink of an eye due to stupidity and negative forces of weather on the sail, I don't see a PG anywhere near better then an HG as far as flying is concerned. NO WAY in hell is it a better flying device then an HG for both safety and/or control.

Besides, they let anyone fly a PG and there's a reason for that! Think about it.
Oh sure they can pack up in a shopping cart, you can *kite* a PG on the ground which is not flying anyway and you can float around in *CALM* winds thinking how fricking boring it really is then thinking: *Damn I should of gotten into hang gliding*

The reason PG pilots think HG sucks is simply cause most PG pilots can't comprehend what it takes to fly a hang glider so therefore back to the ole *They let anyone fly a PG* is straight forward so it don't take a genius to DIE with a speeding streaming deathtrap after mother nature farts a good wind down on top of your structure-less sail!. NO THANKS PG'S THEY SUCK!!!

Although there is one good thing I do see a PG for:

I would have to say covering my wing helping to eliminate those harsh ultra-violet rays Now that's the safest PG you can have right there folks! hehehehe.



Oh yeah,...
One more PG and I'm an ACE!!!




Laughing



=========================================================

OldNewbie please pay attention what I wrote...If you need too,.... read it slower so u don't miss it.


Sniffer wrote:
Hum....going on to a hg website asking if hg is better than pg...dude definitely pg. I mean it fits in a back pack, what else do you need to know. Hg sucks

See OldNewbie? you missed that one! now you know.

Newbie
I never said HG was totally safe, I said that HG's are SAFER then PG's (Read it again) I made this statement because HG's ARE SAFER then PG's simply because of their structure, control and they can fly in more weather variations and higher winds so yeah those three things alone make HG's SAFER!

...and what I meant by *Letting anyone fly PG's*??
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink just like you can lead a man to knowledge, but in this case he just won't think.

HG all the way.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #23   
hanggliding.org is probably the most useless place on the internet to ask this question. You'd likely get better information by asking it on knittingonquaaludes.com.
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AIRTHUG
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #24   
Just for the sake of clarity:

Hang gliding is NOT safer than Paragliding. And it's not more dangerous, either.

Safety is in the choices of the pilot. I only fly my PG in smooth, nearly sled-ride conditions. I loop and spin my hang glider.

I *feel* safer in my hang glider... But that doesn't mean s***.

Aviation in general can be as safe or as dangerous as you make it...

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NickL
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #25   
For me the difference is all about dynamism - paragliders float and hanggliders swoop! Before I had my first trial flight on a HG I did a couple of paraglider lessons - it was alright but I didn't find it very exciting. Once you're up you essentially float along in your comfy flying armchair at a fixed speed, with the ability to steer left and right (although when it gets thermic I believe there's a huge amount of feel and finesse to learn, which keeps things interesting). Most of the challenge seemed to be getting off the ground in the first place (launching the wing, which can lift 6 times your bodyweight, without it dragging you through a hedge).

Luckily I didn't finish my training and spend loads of money on kit, because when I later had a go on a hangglider I knew that was the one for me! The key difference is that a hangglider has pitch control, meaning you can dive, swoop, carve through turns and wingovers, loop-the-loop (if that's your thing) and burn down through turbulence without sitting there dumbly sucking it up. And, lying down on your front makes you feel like superman!

Not to say there's anything wrong with paragliders. If you plan hiking anywhere with it they're definitely the wing to choose, and they are probably less work on the arms to fly. And, strangely, they can do much more radical aerobatics than a hangglider (lots of end-over-end tumbling, which we try to avoid if possible Rolling Eyes ), but I just like the feel of flying a hangglider - it's the closest thing to how you dream of flying, except for maybe wingsuits.

Here's some vids I like of both sports, which seem to capture (for me at least) a bit of the essence of each
Hangliders:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho8bVuAa1TA&list=UUhljoMpeKwBf29zyK_a263A&index=4&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HcwZ6cE39c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyQc8q4jXvA

Paragliders:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiX2eGYJ2Kc&feature=youtu.be
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NickL
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #26   
sorry how could I forget...


Link
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noman3
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #27   
NickL wrote:
sorry how could I forget...


Link


man that was a true gem,than you nick! i needed that.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #28   
Hang gliding is safer!
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relate2
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #29   
When I first looked at flying, it was not a matter of safety, convenience, etc I knew at once that I would be bored Sh#tless after the first hour boating around in a paraglider AND I wanted to fly like SUPERMAN. Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #30   
So go ahead and buy a squirrel suit then if you want to fly like superman.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #31   
old newbie wrote:
So go ahead and buy a squirrel suit then if you want to fly like superman.

Steve


That's alright if you are into quickies, I prefer mine long and relaxing.

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FormerFF
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #32   
Neither sport is convenient, so figure out which one you want to do and do it.

HGs are easier to launch, PG's are easier to land. HGs deal with turbulence pretty well, PG's, well, I hope you like being your aircraft's stability system. Hgs have a wider speed range and can dive. HGs have better glide ratios, PGs can stay up in very light lift. Both are quick and easy to learn. Flying a PG in active air requires a fair bit of proficiency, flying an HG much less so. Read up on flying a PG in active air, you'll find there's a lot you can and will need to do with the controls.

In an HG a stall is a nonevent, in a PG they're quite dramatic. PGs have a number of odd failure modes such as collapses and spins, HGs have one (tumbles) and they're quite rare and mostly avoidable. From what I can tell, PG pilots need an advanced level of skill to deal with turbulence, so you'll need to avoid turbulent air for quite a while. Obvious problem is that air is transparent so you don't exactly know where you might run into some.

EDIT: HG's don't collapse, but they can tumble. It is, however, a very rare occurrence and is unknown in lower performance gliders.


Last edited by FormerFF on Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #33   
Hang Gliding is way cooler! And we pick up more chicks!
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jjcote
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #34   
rhousler wrote:
Hang gliding is safer!

Staying on the ground is much, much safer still.
rodmurray wrote:
Hang Gliding is way cooler! And we pick up more chicks!

My girlfriend thinks PG is much more visually appealing/photogenic, and she hates HG. She likens hang gliding to driving drunk (and would probably feel about the same about PG). (And the hottest chicks in my area fly PG.)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #35   
jjcote wrote:
rhousler wrote:
Hang gliding is safer!

Staying on the ground is much, much safer still.
rodmurray wrote:
Hang Gliding is way cooler! And we pick up more chicks!

My girlfriend thinks PG is much more visually appealing/photogenic, and she hates HG. She likens hang gliding to driving drunk (and would probably feel about the same about PG). (And the hottest chicks in my area fly PG.)


I agree,selling HG to chicks is very difficult.It is a lot more physically demanding and they do not care about being superman...So if you want to meet babes(and not "babes twenty years ago" buy a PG.
Or even better,forget about flying and get into yoga lessons.Plenty of chicks.
I think HG is safer than PG,in the same conditions.But HG can take stronger winds/turbulence so you will most likely end up eating that safety margin by acually flying in stronger air.Your 4x4 will get you stuck in deeper mud paradox.
And that's assuming you actually learn to land an HG properly,not everybody gets it right.
I'm a newbie in both,imho PG is great for hike&fly.HG just feels better to me,like 3d vs 2d flying.Pick your poison,you can't go wrong since both are great.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #36   
Jason wrote:
old newbie wrote:
Here's a few pictures.

Steve Forslund

that bottom one looks absolutely terrifying......i'd be throwing the laundry

Too late!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #37   
Dontsink wrote:
I think HG is safer than PG,in the same conditions.But HG can take stronger winds/turbulence so you will most likely end up eating that safety margin by acually flying in stronger air.


Last Sunday I went to Saleve, weather looked great, I got there a little bit late. Being the only "Delta" pilot there, nobody else wanted to go up. They all had "sand in their V____as" (South Park reference) and said it was too strong.

Some PGs that had launched earlier were still in the air, getting pretty high... although they had problems moving forward/penetrating the wind, I'd say 30% didn't manage to land in the LZ, and had to pay the fines for landing in the crop field.

When the air gets really good, it seems they can't fly safely...
It seems if I want a ride up, I need to go up when conditions are weak and wait, or launch scratch around in light lift for a while, before it gets good (or hope there are other people flying HGs there that day)

If you like trying really hard to stay up in light conditions, then I guess they are for you.

I will concede they are superior in the peripheral non-flying areas.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #38   
AIRTHUG wrote:
Just for the sake of clarity:

Hang gliding is NOT safer than Paragliding. And it's not more dangerous, either.

Safety is in the choices of the pilot. I only fly my PG in smooth, nearly sled-ride conditions. I loop and spin my hang glider.

I *feel* safer in my hang glider... But that doesn't mean s***.

Aviation in general can be as safe or as dangerous as you make it...


To Airthug:
Why do you only fly a PG in '..smooth, nearly sled-ride' conditions? Because it's very dangerous if you don't.

To the original questioner:
PG is not the same as HG, they are totally different wings, and require different skill sets. Trying to compare a PG to a HG is like trying to compare an apple to an orange--a waste of time.
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old newbie
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #39   
So you are complaining because they are flying when it is too strong and because they are not driving up to fly when it is too strong? Sounds like you need to get a motorcycle or a bicycle for riding up to get your car after flying or a better alarm clock or just top land or just offer up some money so someone will drive.

"When the air gets really good, it seems they can't fly safely." I imagine a sailplane pilot could say the same about your wing.For not being able to fly when it is good I see an awful lot of long xc flights by paragliders.

Steve Forslund
Erik Boehm wrote:
Dontsink wrote:
I think HG is safer than PG,in the same conditions.But HG can take stronger winds/turbulence so you will most likely end up eating that safety margin by acually flying in stronger air.


Last Sunday I went to Saleve, weather looked great, I got there a little bit late. Being the only "Delta" pilot there, nobody else wanted to go up. They all had "sand in their V____as" (South Park reference) and said it was too strong.

Some PGs that had launched earlier were still in the air, getting pretty high... although they had problems moving forward/penetrating the wind, I'd say 30% didn't manage to land in the LZ, and had to pay the fines for landing in the crop field.

When the air gets really good, it seems they can't fly safely...
It seems if I want a ride up, I need to go up when conditions are weak and wait, or launch scratch around in light lift for a while, before it gets good (or hope there are other people flying HGs there that day)

If you like trying really hard to stay up in light conditions, then I guess they are for you.

I will concede they are superior in the peripheral non-flying areas.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #40   
Erik Boehm wrote:
Dontsink wrote:
I think HG is safer than PG,in the same conditions.But HG can take stronger winds/turbulence so you will most likely end up eating that safety margin by acually flying in stronger air.


When the air gets really good, it seems they can't fly safely...
It seems if I want a ride up, I need to go up when conditions are weak and wait, or launch scratch around in light lift for a while, before it gets good (or hope there are other people flying HGs there that day)

If you like trying really hard to stay up in light conditions, then I guess they are for you.

I will concede they are superior in the peripheral non-flying areas.


My last PG flight was a week ago,in Cebreros(Avila,Spain).At 17:00 the wind stabilized at 25kmh and i launched without any problems.Plenty enough lift to soar the hill easily and then hook into one of the many thermals cooking around.It was my first time thermalling so i didn't stray to far or try to get too high,though lots of PG's were doing big triangles in the valley.Went 300m above launch a couple times by following the vultures,no collapses,no blowback,just really nice flying.Came back down 2 hours later(i was cold) for an easy top landing close to my car.Very happy indeed.
Maybe those conditions are boring for you Eric,but i think a lot of people would enjoy them a lot.
That spot can be flown by HG too,but i've heard the LZ is not great for newbies like me.I will HG it someday,beatiful place.
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