[CAL]

i am wondering ?

if your goal was to learn how to thermal not using a vario as an end result

would the pilot be better off not using a vario ever or

using a vario first then as an end result not use one

my next question is if you are going to use a vario as an end result

is it better to start right out using a vario or

better to fly without then fly with one

with all questions being a pilot ready to thermal , please state your reasons, if someone has stated the reason all ready, please right down the same answer or use ditto, i am interested in how many pilots think one way or the other,

Keep in mind that there is no right or wrong just your opinion

[red]

CAL,

Sorry, man, but there is only one right way to do these things,
which is MY way.

[CAL]

[jyoder111]

I'm a relatively new pilot (14 hours) who has flown primarily without a vario. My local sites are in the DC area on the east coast. Every site I fly regularly is ridge soarable in 10-12mph winds. With this buffer against sinking out, learning to thermal has been possible without a vario, especially due to the ridge topography that allows you to visually judge if you are rising or sinking, abeit roughly.

In less familiar locations or conditions, a vario would be reassuring, and increase my safety margin. The few times I have flown with one have been educational. I'll probably buy one when the budget permits.

[CAL]

[Eteamjack]

Launched a new site the other day with vario turned off by accident. Did quite well well working thermal lift. But things became less stressful/challenging once I got it switched on. I wasn't gonna mess up and have my first flight cut short . I was able to relax and enjoy a very good day.

[AIRTHUG]

IMHO- it's not about with or without a vario, it's about THINKING and LEARNING.

A huge part of thermalling, WITH or WITHOUT a vario, is FEEL. Feeling whether you should turn right or left, turn tighter or wider, fly faster or slower...

An interesting fact about the human body- we are amazingly sensitive accelerometers. We are also terrible speedometers or variometers. When you step into an elevator and press a button, you feel when the elevator begins to move. Once it reaches a constant speed, we can detect if we are moving or still... until of course it slows as it approaches the next stop. The same with riding a train, in a car, so on... We feel ACCELERATION only.

When flying around, I can FEEL when I hit sink or lift. Once in it, though... it becomes much harder to feel. There is also the feel of the feedback the glider gives us when we hit sink or lift.

FLYING WITH A VARIO A NEW PILOT CAN LEARN TO "CONNECT" THE FEELINGS WITH WHAT THE VARIO IS REPORTING. After a while, the pilot will recognize what they feel as either lift or sink.... but only if they pay attention to what they feel vs what the vario says. If they aren't trying to learn the feel, and just trusting the vario, then it's a crutch more than it is a learning tool.

CAL- you are an example! Your Flytec 6030 displays Speed to Fly. After getting the vario, you told me that you learned you were flying too slowly a lot of the time. If you flew tomorrow and your vario died, you would be able to fly a lot closer to the proper speed to fly even without your 6030... because you used it as a TOOL to LEARN.

Notice I haven't said whether new pilots SHOULD or SHOULDN'T have a vario.... That is because I think it depends on the student, and how they would use a vario if they had one

[Scorl]

[CAL]

[AIRTHUG]

Once you're high enough to not worry about sinking out, turn the audio off your vario and try to FEEL where the thermal is. When you think you hit lift, you can glance at the vario to see if you're right.

The goal is to know the feeling, so you don't need the vario any more.

I have been with H4 pilots who have anxiety and won't even set up if they forgot to charge their vario I give them mine, then sit on their top surface all day

[dayhead]

Echoing pretty much what has been said, I have always recommended using a vario to CALIBRATE YOUR SENSES.

I learned to soar in the late '70's without a vario, primarily in ridge lift, but also in slope/thermal (slermal) conditions. I developed a decent feel, but then I got my Seagull 10 Meter and a Hummingbird vario.

The vario helped me to get my senses calibrated. Once I had a good feel, I would fly with the audio off, and fly just by feel, referencing to the dial just to confirm if what I was feeling was correct.

If I flew XC or in competition I would have a vario, but since I only fly for the Simple Joy of it, I never use a vario. For me, they're a crutch. I love the simple purity of HG without any instruments or radios. I started in airplanes and just hated all that extraneous stuff like motors and instruments and radios. When hang gliding found me I was simply overjoyed to have nothing more than was minimally required for flight, and 35 years later I still feel the same way.

But I'm an anomaly. It's very rare to see a glider flying without anything hanging off the control bar. To each his own.

[fly,surf,&ski]

[CAL]

[TomGalvin]

[Fred Wilson]

The most fun air to play in is light, light thermal scratch.
Nothing in your flying career will ever match the joy of doing this.
It can not be done without a vario.

[TomGalvin]

[CAL]

[CAL]

here is a very good example of my post above

when themaling you will notice when close to the terrain that you can tell i am going up, as i get high above the terrain i am still circling getting higher and higher but it doesn't appear that i am

http://youtu.be/RsOhRrEWLMc

[Skyhighwoman]

I started at Marina so you really did not need one. When I started to fly inland I could not afford one at first. A few times I borrowed one for going inland. It is nice in light conditions. It is much harder to tell if you are maintaining or going up.

I finally bought one. I got a ball 651 it was very slow in reaction time. I was already turning before it started to beep. I call it my cheerleader. At least once my vario battery went dead and even the backup was dead. It was one of my best flight to this day or at least I rank it up there. No I do not worry if I have a vario or not. I did buy another vario baurunigur (sp) it is a good vario for simplicity.

My sink alarm is set very high ~1500fpm. I do not need to know I am going down I can tell. One time I did have it on and I started to turn. I just ignore the vario and turned out. good thing that was my sink alarm....

This year I upgraded my vario to the flytec. I like the GPS plus a few other functions are handy to have. I have not come close to using my vario the way it is supposed to. I have yet to download my flights to computer.

BUT my vario is my cheerleader.

[CAL]