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andylongvq
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Joined: 24 May 2011
Posts: 475
Location: California
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 Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:17 am Post subject: How To Crash With Style... While Protecting Your Head |
 #1 |
There's a helmet discussion going on over on the Rigid Forum. Pros and cons of various helmets, concern about getting guillotined by the nose of the Atos, warm and fuzzy stuff like that. I added to the thread a technique I use when I know a whack is inevitable. Here's my post.
To Swing Or Not To Swing
I'll add my 2 cents to the helmets discussion. Ya, the thought of getting hammered in the neck by the nose is a frightening one. Or swinging up and center punching the keel with your head.
Even though I rarely whack, in flex wings way back or now in rigids, I've developed a way to "crash with elegance". Here's the way it goes. I'm coming in, skimming on final, and by that point you usually can tell if it's going to be a challenging landing or not.
You do the flare and within a couple of bounding steps you can tell if you're going to whack or not. As the glider is getting well in front of you, you can see the nose coming down and, in particular, the base tube.
Dive For The Open
I keep a very close eye on the base tube and as I see it is about to make contact with the ground I let go with both hands and dive sort of shoulder first, in a fetal position, through the control bar... aiming for the open area on the ground that exists to the right or the left of the front flying wires... if you remember flying a flex wing. For some reason, I go for the right opening. I aim very specifically for that opening.
This "strategy" accomplishes a few things. First, it prevents me from swinging straight ahead and smashing my head on the keel. Next, by completely letting go just before the basetube hits, I reduce the chances of tweaking my wrists, arms, etc.
In addition, by aiming for the opening to the right, I'll hit the glider in the sail area, to the right of the nose. I'll also avoid having the nose hit me in the back of the neck.
After coming up with this whack strategy, I've never hit my head on the keel. And during two whacks a few years go on the rigid, the nose hit the ground well off to the side of where I ended up.
How To Prevent The Swing
One other point. If your harness main is tight during the entire whack sequence, and you are semi prone at the moment of the whack, your body is going to travel in an arc and you're going to swing into something.
However, if you are more upright, like still trying to run, and the glider is coming down at a shallow angle with the basetube about to hit, your harness main is going to have some slack in it right after the base tube hits.
Then, when you dive for the open area your main is going to go tight again but it's going to be more of a sudden jolting stop, not so much a swinging type of arc.
This is just speculation on my part but I point this out because since I started "diving for the opening" I can't ever remember swinging in an arc. It's always just been a sideways kind of dive for the opening, hitting the ground and stopping with a jolt right there.
- Andy |
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JR
1 thumbs up
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 595
Location: western MD
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:45 pm Post subject: |
#2 |
Great post, Andy! I essentially use the same technique when I enter "crash-mode" and I believe it has mitigated the consequences of those impacts with the terra firma for both the glider and myself. I also tend to pull my elbows into my sides and go into a fetal position with both arms together and in front of my chest as I turn sideways towards open space. It's not really something you have much time to think about while it's happening nor something you can really practice, but it might make a difference in the final outcome (and I think it has for me).
JR |
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andylongvq
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 May 2011
Posts: 475
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:21 pm Post subject: |
#3 |
| JR wrote: |
| I also tend to pull my elbows into my sides and go into a fetal position with both arms together and in front of my chest as I turn sideways towards open space.JR |
That is it precisely! Exactly what I do.
Plus, that final position lends itself well to sucking ones thumb and whimpering for my Momma as the dust is settling right after impact.
- Andy  |
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Wagner24314
1 thumbs up
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 2045
Location: Yankton SD
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: How To Crash With Style... While Protecting Your Head |
#4 |
| andylongvq wrote: |
There's a helmet discussion going on over on the Rigid Forum. Pros and cons of various helmets, concern about getting guillotined by the nose of the Atos, warm and fuzzy stuff like that. I added to the thread a technique I use when I know a whack is inevitable. Here's my post.
To Swing Or Not To Swing
I'll add my 2 cents to the helmets discussion. Ya, the thought of getting hammered in the neck by the nose is a frightening one. Or swinging up and center punching the keel with your head.
Even though I rarely whack, in flex wings way back or now in rigids, I've developed a way to "crash with elegance". Here's the way it goes. I'm coming in, skimming on final, and by that point you usually can tell if it's going to be a challenging landing or not.
You do the flare and within a couple of bounding steps you can tell if you're going to whack or not. As the glider is getting well in front of you, you can see the nose coming down and, in particular, the base tube.
Dive For The Open
I keep a very close eye on the base tube and as I see it is about to make contact with the ground I let go with both hands and dive sort of shoulder first, in a fetal position, through the control bar... aiming for the open area on the ground that exists to the right or the left of the front flying wires... if you remember flying a flex wing. For some reason, I go for the right opening. I aim very specifically for that opening.
This "strategy" accomplishes a few things. First, it prevents me from swinging straight ahead and smashing my head on the keel. Next, by completely letting go just before the basetube hits, I reduce the chances of tweaking my wrists, arms, etc.
In addition, by aiming for the opening to the right, I'll hit the glider in the sail area, to the right of the nose. I'll also avoid having the nose hit me in the back of the neck.
After coming up with this whack strategy, I've never hit my head on the keel. And during two whacks a few years go on the rigid, the nose hit the ground well off to the side of where I ended up.
How To Prevent The Swing
One other point. If your harness main is tight during the entire whack sequence, and you are semi prone at the moment of the whack, your body is going to travel in an arc and you're going to swing into something.
However, if you are more upright, like still trying to run, and the glider is coming down at a shallow angle with the basetube about to hit, your harness main is going to have some slack in it right after the base tube hits.
Then, when you dive for the open area your main is going to go tight again but it's going to be more of a sudden jolting stop, not so much a swinging type of arc.
This is just speculation on my part but I point this out because since I started "diving for the opening" I can't ever remember swinging in an arc. It's always just been a sideways kind of dive for the opening, hitting the ground and stopping with a jolt right there.
- Andy |
 even works with a cartwheel
_________________
"Cocky Bastard". Never land on your face it hurts
H3 AT, PL,FL
Sport 2 brothers wing, LaMouette Topless 1 flys awsome and Airborne C4 13.5 |
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remmoore
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1311
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:33 pm Post subject: |
#5 |
I approach the subject from a different perspective.
I imagine waking up one day with God standing at the foot of my bed. He says to me, "My son, today is the day you are going to crash your glider. You have no choice in the matter, and it's gonna be quite the crater."
He continues, "But, you have one choice you can make right now. I have before you a broad selection of helmets - including bicycle helmets, HG helmets, BMX helmets, MX and MC helmets. You can choose which one to use today."
The helmet I would choose in that scenario is the one I fly with on every flight. Sure, I can fly safely; try keep myself out of the most dangerous situations; I can even minimize my impact in a crash. If I ever need serious head protection, however, I'll know that I'm wearing among the best I could get.
RM |
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J Fritsche
3 thumbs up
Joined: 21 Mar 2010
Posts: 474
Location: Lompoc, CA ("central coast")
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:05 pm Post subject: |
#6 |
No offense, but have you guys considered that something might be wrong if you've had to make an art form out of properly crashing? I thought those things were supposed to be a piece of cake to land.
_________________
Saturn 147, Predator 142 |
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GerryP
3 thumbs up
Joined: 05 Jan 2010
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:46 pm Post subject: |
#7 |
Aim toward the side, let go before the basetube hits, go fetal.
Good advice Andy - thanks for posting.
Here is a question: what do you do if your harness zipper gets stuck? A friend told me to land normal, pogo-stick style, rather than try to skim it in. (assume no wheels). I think he is right, but I'd love to hear from others with experience landing with a stuck zipper. It almost happened to me this weekend!
Gerry |
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andylongvq
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 May 2011
Posts: 475
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:08 pm Post subject: |
#8 |
Hi J,
The above was just suggestions for when we MIGHT be faced with a whack, not that we had to develop a strategy because we whack a lot.
During the last 2 years, landing is some seriously challenging conditions, the nose of my Atos hasn't touched the ground. Knock on wood.
Gerry,
I haven't had to land fully zipped up in my harness yet. But my Matrix Race harness has the zipper sewn in. No velcro. So if my zipper gets stuck, I'll have to land with it closed.
I would tend to land as you suggest. Get upright, flare hard and come down on my boot. I think trying to skim in on my belly would have more potential for injury. I don't know. I think it would depend on where I landed.
- Andy |
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dave hopkins
3 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Posts: 722
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:28 pm Post subject: |
#9 |
| andylongvq wrote: |
Hi J,
The above was just suggestions for when we MIGHT be faced with a whack, not that we had to develop a strategy because we whack a lot.
During the last 2 years, landing is some seriously challenging conditions, the nose of my Atos hasn't touched the ground. Knock on wood.
Gerry,
I haven't had to land fully zipped up in my harness yet. But my Matrix Race harness has the zipper sewn in. No velcro. So if my zipper gets stuck, I'll have to land with it closed.
I would tend to land as you suggest. Get upright, flare hard and come down on my boot. I think trying to skim in on my belly would have more potential for injury. I don't know. I think it would depend on where I landed.
- Andy |
Type of ground is the key. Fared base bars skid very nice when done right. Grass or a hard smooth surface, fly it in, slow it down, push out ,open hands as it settles , don't hold on too tight so your hands slip over . I had to do it couple times. Get your body on the ground and unload the glider as it settles this helps make it gentle.
Dave |
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red
3 thumbs up
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 2738
Location: Utah, USA . . . . . . . . . . . . . Sol III
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:20 am Post subject: How To Crash With Style... While Protecting Your Head |
#10 |
| GerryP wrote: |
[i]Here is a question: what do you do if your harness zipper gets stuck? A friend told me to land normal, pogo-stick style, rather than try to skim it in. (assume no wheels). I think he is right, but I'd love to hear from others with experience landing with a stuck zipper. It almost happened to me this weekend!
Gerry |
Gerry,
If your pod zipper installs with Velcro, you can fix this problem in advance, while hanging in the shop. See the
Safety Note for Front-Zipper Pods:
http://user.xmission.com/~red/#hs
If your pod zipper is just sewed in, you might want to replace it with a zipper held by Velcro.
Either way, hard block wax (like gunstock makers use) is the best zipper lube. It stays put, does not collect dirt, and lasts a good while.
_________________
Cheers,
........Red.........................
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum |
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remmoore
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1311
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:44 am Post subject: |
#11 |
A couple of years ago, I saw a vid clip of "Safety" Dave Merriman skidding in for a landing. It might have been posted here. If I recall, he claimed to be practicing in the event of a stuck zipper.
Frankly, I would try to land normally, giving a full flair and getting my enclosed feet under me. I would expect that the harness boot cone would keep me from staying on my feet, and I would fall to me knees. I would have greatly reduced the downward momentum, however, and the final 2' to the ground would be a non-event.
RM |
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Darbbb
2 thumbs up
Joined: 11 Feb 2009
Posts: 851
Location: Western Maryland
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:03 am Post subject: Re: How To Crash With Style... While Protecting Your Head |
#12 |
| red wrote: |
| GerryP wrote: |
[i]Here is a question: what do you do if your harness zipper gets stuck? A friend told me to land normal, pogo-stick style, rather than try to skim it in. (assume no wheels). I think he is right, but I'd love to hear from others with experience landing with a stuck zipper. It almost happened to me this weekend!
Gerry |
Gerry,
If your pod zipper installs with Velcro, you can fix this problem in advance, while hanging in the shop. See the
Safety Note for Front-Zipper Pods:
http://user.xmission.com/~red/#hs
If your pod zipper is just sewed in, you might want to replace it with a zipper held by Velcro.
Either way, hard block wax (like gunstock makers use) is the best zipper lube. It stays put, does not collect dirt, and lasts a good while.
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Red
Is that what they used to sell as "parrafin wax"? We used to buy it in 3x3x4 blocks and used to wax our sled runners. I think it's still available in the canning aisle of the grocery store, if we are talking about the same thing.
BB |
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red
3 thumbs up
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 2738
Location: Utah, USA . . . . . . . . . . . . . Sol III
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:48 am Post subject: Re: How To Crash With Style... While Protecting Your Head |
#13 |
| Darbbb wrote: |
| red wrote: |
If your pod zipper installs with Velcro, you can fix this problem in advance, while hanging in the shop. See the
Safety Note for Front-Zipper Pods:
http://user.xmission.com/~red/#hs
Either way, hard block wax (like gunstock makers use) is the best zipper lube. It stays put, does not collect dirt, and lasts a good while.
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Red
Is that what they used to sell as "parrafin wax"? We used to buy it in 3x3x4 blocks and used to wax our sled runners. I think it's still available in the canning aisle of the grocery store, if we are talking about the same thing.
BB |
Darbbb,
Paraffin wax is soft. Candle wax is soft and slightly oily. It might do in a pinch, but hard wax is better. You do not need very much, just a swipe or two. A gun maker gave me a small block of the hard wax once, and I never knew where he got it. If I find a source, I'll post it, but I would bet that somebody here can tell us.
_________________
Cheers,
........Red.........................
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum |
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Mavi Gogun
1 thumbs up
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 973
Location: Istanbul (not Constantinople)
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: How To Crash With Style... While Protecting Your Head |
#14 |
| red wrote: |
| If I find a source, I'll post it, but I would bet that somebody here can tell us. |
You might try jewelers carving wax- comes in a variety of densities, and the harder varieties most definitely lack oiliness. |
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kg386109
3 thumbs up
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Tustin, CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:03 am Post subject: Zippers and Keels |
#15 |
ZIPPERS AND KEELS
I treat all my zippers ( Bag, Harness, Sprogs) with Sailkote. It is an aerosol teflon spray that I used back in my ocean sailing days when sail zippers and sail cover zippers would get crusted w/ salt. It is dry and doesn't attract dust + dirt like wax does. It's a little more $$ than wax but my can has lasted 3 yrs and i apply it 1x / mo out here in dry dusty CA.. I have never had to rip out my harness zipper velcro or land zipped up.
I wacked my self on the back of the head / neck w/ my keel in a bad landing once and even with the helmet it felt like Larry Bonds wailed on me with his Louisville Slugger. I have since tied a 9" x 25" rectangle of 1/2'" foam ( from an old backpacking / sleeping mat) inside my keel zipper so that it protects the keel from my body. I had tested the foam by wrapping it around an aluminum softball bat and having my son wack me progressively harder and harder. The difference was amazing. I could take a considerable wack and it felt quite pillow like. The neighbors who happened to be watching thought it was kinda weird but.......... |
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JR
1 thumbs up
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 595
Location: western MD
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Zippers and Keels |
#16 |
| kg386109 wrote: |
ZIPPERS AND KEELS
I treat all my zippers ( Bag, Harness, Sprogs) with Sailkote. It is an aerosol teflon spray that I used back in my ocean sailing days when sail zippers and sail cover zippers would get crusted w/ salt. It is dry and doesn't attract dust + dirt like wax does. It's a little more $$ than wax but my can has lasted 3 yrs and i apply it 1x / mo out here in dry dusty CA.. I have never had to rip out my harness zipper velcro or land zipped up.
I wacked my self on the back of the head / neck w/ my keel in a bad landing once and even with the helmet it felt like Larry Bonds wailed on me with his Louisville Slugger. I have since tied a 9" x 25" rectangle of 1/2'" foam ( from an old backpacking / sleeping mat) inside my keel zipper so that it protects the keel from my body. I had tested the foam by wrapping it around an aluminum softball bat and having my son wack me progressively harder and harder. The difference was amazing. I could take a considerable wack and it felt quite pillow like. The neighbors who happened to be watching thought it was kinda weird but.......... |
I use Sailkote, too and can attest to its effectiveness, but a can only lasts me a year or two b/c all my buddies want to use it. Maybe an aluminum baseball bat would be in order? 
JR |
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remmoore
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1311
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:29 pm Post subject: |
#17 |
I trust my non-velcro'd zipper only with SailCote - I've never had a problem.
RM |
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skypilot155
3 thumbs up
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 515
Location: Grass Valley, California
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:12 pm Post subject: |
#18 |
My zipper got stuck at Hat Creek about 5 months ago. However I have made it a.practice to unzip as soon I decide to go.land and not.on downwind , base , or final.as.so many do so it was a.non issue. Always remember the 6 p's pryor planning prevents piss poor performance 
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Sport2 155
Sport Pilot Antares 582 Trike
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Don't die until you're dead and in the mean time keep your eyes on Jesus |
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