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sg
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Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 11030
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 Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:06 am Post subject: |
 #41 |
Need to carry a stun gun, just in case 
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H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
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| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
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Mrsposer
3 thumbs up
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 2102
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:07 am Post subject: |
#42 |
Docsoc...I am NOT rubbing salt into an open wound. I am just getting my feelings on the table here....and since I am the one and Bill is the one who are affected here....it is really ONLY between me and Bill. I have no beef with him now...and YES I would have cleared that day. I think my post was written in as tactful a manner as I could possibly write it....and since Bill and I are the only ones here that were on the hill...I think it only applies to us.
I was NOT trying to instruct...I was only trying to encourage him to give it another try, as he had paid for his lessons, and he should get his money's worth. As I stated I'm sure Bill is a great guy. And I understand that he was in a funky way that day, I'm over it, I hope Bill is over it. I think there are great lessons to be learned from our experience with each other that day....and I hope that we will remain friends...but to do that I wanted him to know where I stood. 
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Wingspan34
2 thumbs up
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:13 am Post subject: |
#43 |
| Mrsposer wrote: |
| . . . we had a little "bad energy" up there . . . it['s] REALLY hard . . . when someone is . . . bickering back and forth while I am trying to launch |
| MysticWizard wrote: |
| I think that was me??? Sorry, |
While I'd like to have been there to understand what was going on, ??? What I'll say is this:
ANY training hill is for people who want to accomplish something on that training hill. It's not a place for negativity, bickering, or demeaning the process going on (having to do, as it does, with more than one person). I have taught a few less than a hundred people to fly - or should I say given them at least an intro lesson (since many folks only really want the "I flew a hang glider once" experience). So I'm not "Joe Super Pro Instructor". But I loved instructing and think I did well by my students.
All this being said, if I had a disruptive student (or many hour pilot on the T-Hill [for what reason?] ) who was throwing off obvious negativity, he/she would be asked to leave, period. Not to criticize the LOMFP instructor(s), but where were they? It's the instructor's JOB to create an atmosphere conducive to a good, strong focus and a positive energy toward accomplishing the task at hand - safe aviation!
As a student, do not be afraid to speak up if another student(?) is ruining your time at the T-Hill. If such other person is so obviouysly negative THEIR OWN BETTER JUDGMENT (?) should tell them to go home. If they can't figure that out, the instructor should step in. And if the instructor doesn't step in, you, the student should go talk to the instructor and inform them that YOU will leave if he/she does not "fix" the problem.
This all relates directly to SAFETY! Flight training requires solid focus and a positive attitude. Without it, people can not perform to their best level. Instructors (or any other experienced pilot on the scene) should KNOW AND ENFORCE this as a basic fundamental of HG (or almost any other kind of) training.
While not on the scene, I can't say this with authority, but reading Mystic's own comments about being hung over and not being into what he was doing, . . .etc. allows me to ask: Why were you even there?
And making comments about this situation is all a very good process. It brings to light how a training hill dynamic can become negative and anti-productive. If, AS A STUDENT, you've got a negative attitude (or feel one coming on) pack up and leave - BEFORE you ruin your own (and/or everyone else's) day.
Finally, I will hazard to say the following: Mystic, a simple apology doesn't quite cut it here. You should start by spreading some (nothing but!) positive energy around the T-Hills at LO. That would be a good first step. And while it's truly impossible, if you could get MrsPoser her (good) last day at the T-Hill back, that would be payment in full. (**IMHO**)
Now, Mystic, if YOU were being "abused" by others on the T-Hill  was that all about? Was it meant in a mean spirited way, or were you just not up to some well intended(?), good natured criticism? If it was the first, then again, the instructor in charge should have cut the cr*p early on.
**To all involved - I'm not local to you folks so I have made my comments as a kind of (hopefully) objective third party. To the degree I am right or wrong in my interpritation, be mad at me not each other, okay?
But also remember, my goal is to define for an even larger(?) group (other new or potential pilots) how non hang gliding based "stuff" can effect a day at the T-Hill. If I've done that with the help of some of the details from this situation, then let it be a learning process for all involved.  
| MysticWizard wrote: |
I just didn't want to run down the hill anymore that morning after a heavily inebriated Friday evening and it seemed like everyone was yelling at me.
I tried to keep quiet and shut everyone up, but they (not you or your boyfriend) kept insisting I run down the stupid bunny hill. That's the kind of peer pressure crap that I had to put up with back in high school[??] - but I don't need it at 54 years old and with over 100 solos under my belt.
It's no reflection on the instruction[??], they do a great job out there. It just wasn't "my bag" that morning.
Mornings just aren't my "thing". |
[emph. add.]
Last edited by Wingspan34 on Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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curly_cue
3 thumbs up
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 768
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:22 am Post subject: |
#44 |
| Wingspan34 wrote: |
| Not to criticize the LOMFP instructor(s), but where were they? |
Don't get me wrong, I love going to LMFP, and I think they have one of the best training programs in the world.
BUT, they do have a problem controlling things on the hill sometimes. I've had mornings up there where I got so fed up with other students that I just left and paid for private lessons in the evening. The biggest problem was that there were students up there with me that were slow as far as getting ready when it was their turn. We had to share gliders, and when it would be the next persons turn, I would hear "ok, just let me get a drink. oh! where's my helmet?, can someone hang check me?" Meanwhile, everyone else is standing around glaring at the person and suddenly the energy is waaayyy negative. The instructors never said a word.
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Wingspan34
2 thumbs up
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:27 am Post subject: |
#45 |
| curly_cue wrote: |
| I've heard tandem instructors talk about having to Elbow the student in the face to get them to calm down and let go of the wires. |
That's so funny BECAUSE I was actually taught that by one tandem instructor of mine. He walked me through the whole process so I would be familiar with it. He also told me to TELL student/passengers that it would happen if they got out of control - for safety's sake. AND to demonstrate the move for them, just as he had for me. They would look -  and I would give - and a pleasant 
I think the best thing about such a technique is that the passenger is then more afraid of you, and tends to forget any fear they may have of the flight they are about to take. 
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FormerFF
3 thumbs up
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 2482
Location: Roswell, Georgia, USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject: |
#46 |
| Imaposer wrote: |
Yeah, it was the leeside rotor that I was mostly concerned with. And although the wind had calmed down late that afternoon it was still gusting pretty strong at times. As I stood there on the ramp contemplating it all it would calm down (but never truly go away) and then a few seconds later I could feel it pressing against my back pretty strongly. I knew this would affect my concentration and not make for a very FUN first experience. In the end I decided to not set up. I'm not criticizing Gordon's judgement either as he had seen me flying that morning on the big hill while I was there trying to nail my flares. Since he had never seen me fly before he asked me to do a couple of linked 90s and a speed run for him and then said I was flying great and just to practice what I wanted as long as I wanted. I'm sure his assessment of the conditions that afternoon were made with his observations earlier in the day in mind.
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I did my mountain solo on a light northeasterly day. There was a bit of bumpiness from the rotor, but is was nothing that I (and you) hadn't experienced on the training hills.
| Imaposer wrote: |
Well, I must have been intensely concentrating on my test then since that guy was the only one that I remember coming in the room while taking my test. I think I was confusing you with FormerFF as I think he has two young daughters (?) and thought maybe that was you. But still, next time come up and say hello.
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I do have two girls, but we weren't there Sunday.
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FormerFF
3 thumbs up
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 2482
Location: Roswell, Georgia, USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: |
#47 |
For anyone who's wondering what the mysterious PilotGuy looks like, there's a picture of him on this thread:
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=1249&start=60
He's the one who is rather bravely wearing the yellow Juicy Fruit T Shirt. I say bravely because he's straight and we were in midtown Atlanta.
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Imaposer
3 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 1041
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject: |
#48 |
| FormerFF wrote: |
I did my mountain solo on a light northeasterly day. There was a bit of bumpiness from the rotor, but is was nothing that I (and you) hadn't experienced on the training hills. |
Yeah, i think i could have handled it but it was pretty rough at times and after hearing some of the comments from one of the tandem pilots, about the conditions in the LZ I decided not to go. That and the fact that I only saw one guy launch from the ramp. The one that tripped on his VG cord. And no one was setting up, and no one was towing either. I just figured that there was probably a reason. I've always planned to fly conservatively and saw no reason to second guess my instincts so early in my flying career. Like I told Judy, if it had been my 4th or 5th solo I may have thought differently but on my first I want to be able to relax and enjoy it without unnecessary distractions. There will be another day when I will feel more comfortable.
| FormerFF wrote: |
I do have two girls, but we weren't there Sunday. |
Yeah, I thought it was you that had two girls. When pilotguy said he was there Sun I momentarily got the two of you confused in my mind. There was a guy there with two girls, that conincidentally looked much like yours, while i was taking my test. With you two confused in my head, I thought it was you, er...him. Oh you know what I mean. 
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curly_cue
3 thumbs up
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 768
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:41 am Post subject: |
#49 |
| Imaposer wrote: |
| FormerFF wrote: |
I did my mountain solo on a light northeasterly day. There was a bit of bumpiness from the rotor, but is was nothing that I (and you) hadn't experienced on the training hills. |
Yeah, i think i could have handled it but it was pretty rough at times and after hearing some of the comments from one of the tandem pilots, about the conditions in the LZ I decided not to go. That and the fact that I only saw one guy launch from the ramp. The one that tripped on his VG cord. And no one was setting up, and no one was towing either. I just figured that there was probably a reason. I've always planned to fly conservatively and saw no reason to second guess my instincts so early in my flying career. Like I told Judy, if it had been my 4th or 5th solo I may have thought differently but on my first I want to be able to relax and enjoy it without unnecessary distractions. There will be another day when I will feel more comfortable.
| FormerFF wrote: |
I do have two girls, but we weren't there Sunday. |
Yeah, I thought it was you that had two girls. When pilotguy said he was there Sun I momentarily got the two of you confused in my mind. There was a guy there with two girls, that conincidentally looked much like yours, while i was taking my test. With you two confused in my head, I thought it was you, er...him. Oh you know what I mean. |
I'm really surprised that Gordon wanted you to go this weekend. He is normally very conservative as far as newbies go.
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