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AIRTHUG
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #101   
Wes wrote:
Isnt all of this another topic or is it just me? Seems pretty personal too. Maybe better discussed in private?


You want some of this Wes box

ROFL

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Wes
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #102   
AIRTHUG wrote:
Wes wrote:
Isnt all of this another topic or is it just me? Seems pretty personal too. Maybe better discussed in private?


You want some of this Wes box

ROFL


Only if you buy the beer. thumbsup
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BubbleBoy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #103   
AIRTHUG wrote:
Your public apology wasn't for anyone but yourself, so you could sleep better at night.

Do not make your 'public apology' out to be some saving grace- it was as selfish as the day you pocketed that pin.


I see -- LOL. Now we add "mind reading" to the list of skills that Ryan believes he holds but doesn't.

JB
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Wes
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #104   
AIRTHUG wrote:
Wes wrote:
Isnt all of this another topic or is it just me? Seems pretty personal too. Maybe better discussed in private?


You want some of this Wes box

ROFL


You got nothing on me punch Bring it!!! Wait, you got video run

ROFL ROFL
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BubbleBoy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #105   
Wes wrote:
Maybe better discussed in private?


I lied in public and thus apologized in public. There's nothing for me to keep private.

Ryan would certainly like for his hypocrisy regarding the punishment of tandem paperwork infractions to be kept private, but as long as he keeps flaunting it in public, I'm going to respond in public.

JB
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AIRTHUG
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #106   
I want your claimed hypocrisy kept so private that I posted a summary/explanation while you played games with "if you want to find it, you'll find it"...

I'm so secretive I'm transparent ROFL

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ksykes
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #107   
Since this has devolved into two people slugging it out, how about dropping it?('surrender')
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dievhart
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #108   
Ditto
Diev

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Wes
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #109   
BubbleBoy wrote:
Wes wrote:
Maybe better discussed in private?


I lied in public and thus apologized in public. There's nothing for me to keep private.

Ryan would certainly like for his hypocrisy regarding the punishment of tandem paperwork infractions to be kept private, but as long as he keeps flaunting it in public, I'm going to respond in public.

JB


I cant add anything intelligent to this discussion. The stuff with Malcolm happened long before I started flying. I'm glad to see that the rules finally have some teeth and know I'm not exempt from them. I will say Ryan is no hypocrite. I'm just saying that if you want to execute your vendetta against him do it some here else. If you canít add anything more than just name calling itís time to drop it. And before you start calling me names I want to add that I'm proud to call Ryan my friend.

Wes
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FPeel
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #110   
srskypuppy wrote:
My belief is that while we donít absolutely have to enforce every rule, what rules we do enforce need to be applied equally to everyone.


In an ideal world if there is a rule it would be enforced or stuck down to avoid confusion or abuses of power or position. Unfortunately, we do not have complete control over the rules imposed upon us by landowners and the like, so "looking the other way" has become accepted as part of the norm. Within certain boundaries this is workable, but it requires even administration to remain fair. We're missing that even handedness in the Bay Area.

Enforcement is too often based on predetermined biases about and by the personalities involved. Charged parties have been found guilty, or innocent, before the details of what happened were even investigated. That's not to suggest it's never done right because more often than not the system works. But the errors seem to always occur when certain people are involved. Basically, it's a Peyton Place with laughable, predictable results.

The same sort of thing probably happens at the national level (actually I know it does, but my limited experience there is ancient history and not worth dredging up).

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Phoenix
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #111   
AIRTHUG wrote:


Do not make your 'public apology' out to be some saving grace- it was as selfish as the day you pocketed that pin.


That's just pure puke! A man has to live with what he has to live with, only
a lesser man would rub it in his face over a web argument.
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BubbleBoy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #112   
theayeinthesky wrote:
That's just pure puke!


Thanks aya.

It's a pretty widely accepted moral standard that if one does something one sincerely regrets, a no excuses apology is in order.

I make plenty of mistakes and do my best to buck up and admit them when I do, but Ryan appears to roll by a different moral standard and that's his right. We all make our beds.

JB
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Phoenix
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #113   
BubbleBoy wrote:
theayeinthesky wrote:
That's just pure puke!


Thanks aya.

It's a pretty widely accepted moral standard that if one does something one sincerely regrets, a no excuses apology is in order.

I make plenty of mistakes and do my best to buck up and admit them when I do, but Ryan appears to roll by a different moral standard and that's his right. We all make our beds.

JB


Hey, I've been there too. Ryan is a smart and capable young man, but like it
or not he is representing the USHPA. This begs the question, this is a rough
sport, can we show some compassion for the inevitable tragedies, with out
blaming others and ourselfs for being human?

I am not a Christian, because I never found a Church that learned the first lesson Jesus taught the money lenders, yet forgivness is a welcome thing
when we honestly forgive ourselves, and forgive those who will not forgive us.

Sorry for the preach, but I'm not understanding this very well.
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BubbleBoy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #114   
theayeinthesky wrote:
Sorry for the preach, ...


I detected not a hint of preaching there.

BTW, I'm not a Christian mostly because the religion gene simply passed me by. I suspect that had that gene been passed to me I would have been a Christian simply because those are the cultural odds in the US when born to Christian parents.

I accept we all make mistakes. I believe in offering forgiveness when it is sincerely asked for. In extremely rare cases I can forgive even if it is not asked for.

I do have a rather strict sense of fairness -- I despise it when punishment is dispensed based on 'who you know' or 'what you've done for whom'. I don't dismiss the infraction -- just hate and will continue to point out the hypocrisy of someone who makes endless excuses for the defendant in one major case while pointing a finger and shouting metaphorically 'stone him' in another comparitively two bit case.

It will stick in my craw every time.

JB
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AIRTHUG
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #115   
So then you agree with the revocation this thread is based on? We have nothing left worth discussing.

I re-read this thread, and frankly we BOTH look like (equal) idiots. Perhaps we were made for eachother... And would get along perfectly had circumstances been different...

I'm moving on from this thread... It might actually be flyable tomorrow!

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BubbleBoy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #116   
AIRTHUG wrote:
So then you agree with the revocation this thread is based on?


No, we do NOT agree. You have stated that you hold a position (you support it). I hold no position as to the specific revocation as I have nowhere near enough knowledge of the situation to take a position.

What I DO know is that Mike didn't flaunt the rules for years, taking *thousands* of people tandem against the law. Thus if I were to support Malcolm getting off scott free, it would be hypocritcal of me to ask for the rating of someone who did the same thing several thousand times fewer.

Quote:
I re-read this thread, and frankly we BOTH look like (equal) idiots.


Well, sure -- we're tied if it's idiotic to stand up for equal enforcement of rules rather than fall for the blatent hypocrisy and cronyism you offer.

Glad to hear you feel you look like an idiot though. That's progress.

See ya next time you want to preach about how serious it is to not do the proper tandem paperwork. I'll still be here to point out your blatent hypocrisy on the topic.

JB
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BubbleBoy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #117   
gotandem wrote:
I don't care to if you can't help me find where Ryan currently defends the BOD decision. So far I think it's a false accusation.


You are free to think it's a false accusation Bart, but surely can't help but notice that in this conversation Ryan hasn't ONCE even hinted that the position I attribute to him is false. NOT ONCE!!

That's because he knows he has repeatedly on this forum (openly and in PMs) defended the decision of the USHGA to let Malcolm off scott free. He has done this based on versions of the 'he's done so much for the sport he shouldn't be made to 'look bad' by being held accountable' argument. He knows that if I need to produce it (like if he were to say it aint so) I could produce it.

You know damn well that if I were falsely accusing Ryan of his position of record here he would call me on it in a heart beat..

Quote:
I don't really care


Yes you do.

JB
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blindrodie
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #118   
Something about this and my own experience with Malcolm makes me think he would have let any strong-arming from the then USHGA go to court. That alone would have stopped the USHGA in it's tracks... Cool
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selbaer
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #119   
wow, it's thousands now...just walking away shaking my head...you're a really smart cookie


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srskypuppy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #120   
I can't prove that politics were not involved with these current revocations any more than someone else can prove that there was. There is no tangible evidence, only personal opinion, and we all know the analogy about opinions and a-holes.

That said, in my personal a-hole, opp's, I mean opinion, I believe that one should make their best effort to be objective in their statements, because making an unsubstantiated statement is just as bad as the hypocrisy one might attempt to criticize.

John wrote " snip....in another comparitively two bit case." (sorry, I don't know how to better insert a piece quote from another post)

Maybe the current case is only two bit by comparison because you view the other case as so huge, but I won't attempt to guess.
Whatever opinion you choose to post, please don't downplay the seriousness of the current violations. (plural) They were real, substantiated, and in relation to site preservation, they were serious in nature.

I agree about forgiveness, that we all make mistakes, and sometimes the hardest person to forgive is ourselves. Iím willing to forgive Mike and with certain conditions, give him a second chance.

Sometimes a person will redeem themselves and validate our forgiveness, other times not. Only time will tell!

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