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hgflyer
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Joined: 07 Dec 2007
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 Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:57 pm Post subject: |
 #21 |
| dgs wrote: |
| Spark wrote: |
| I thought I had sufficient airspeed, and didn't ... |
It's a little hard to tell since the video slows down, but it didn't look that slow. At 0:38 you're a little low, and then your knees start dragging the ground and your arms become fully extended. From that point there was nothing you could do: the ground is pulling you aft by your knees, your arms are already straight, and there's nothing more to give on the flare even if you did have some extra airspeed. I may be confusing cause and effect, but yeah, wheels are good!
Regardless of how it happened, we're all real sorry about your injury - and Kermit's too. Tough way to start a season, and I hope you both recover quickly!
Dan |
I agree, that this was also a big contributing factor.
A glider that is trimmed too slow, and a pilot getting out of good body position during the landing rotation or flare. Usually ends up just being a belly landing, with wheels.
Making sure a glider is trimmed perfectly and making sure you have good upright posture during the landings. Helps avoid this senario.
Thanks for sharing Spark. Get well soon. |
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FormerFF
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Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 2482
Location: Roswell, Georgia, USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: |
#22 |
| Ouch! So sorry to hear you're hurt. |
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skyshaddo
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Joined: 24 Feb 2010
Posts: 439
Location: Point of the Mountain Ut.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:55 pm Post subject: |
#23 |
Sorry to here that Spark,
Heal fast myfriend
Shaddo |
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PilotGuy
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:07 pm Post subject: |
#24 |
That sucks Spark. I hope since you're hanging out on the computer that the pain is not too miserable. Even if it's not, make sure to really play it up for the better meds. 
Heal fast. |
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Mavi Gogun
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Posts: 978
Location: Istanbul (not Constantinople)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:33 am Post subject: |
#25 |
| Wikipedia wrote: |
| The coracoid process (from greek κόραξ, crow) is a small hook-like structure on the lateral edge of the superior anterior portion of the scapula. |
I hate learning anatomy this way. Heal well and with speed, Allen.
Could you tell us the LZ altitude? |
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jimrooney
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jjcote
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:36 am Post subject: |
#27 |
I can't tell from the slowed-down video, but do you think the injury occurred when the control bar caught on the ground, or shortly after that, after you swung through the control frame, when you extended your arms to break your fall and keep your face out of the dirt? If I had to make a guess, I would suspect the latter.
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Jason
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:37 am Post subject: |
#28 |
and here I was about to email you this morning to see if you got to fly Saturday....
I hope you heal up soon
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Windlord
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:40 am Post subject: |
#29 |
Oh shiat !  What a bummer Allen, and at the beginning of the season.
That's not fair. You could always rehab with us, down in Mex. sitting on the beach for three weeks.
Heal well and keep us updated. 
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CAL
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Posts: 3468
Location: OGDEN, UT
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:31 am Post subject: |
#30 |
Thanks for sharing Spark ! you can tell by all the comments that you have great friends here, you are a great friend to us all, i have enjoyed the little times that i was able spend with you and hope for more opportunities in the future, take care our good friend ! you will be back, you are one tough man ! it is amazing that you where able to get the glider back up on your own !
Heal Fast ! keep in touch and let us know how you are doing !
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Avnav8r
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:55 am Post subject: |
#31 |
Hey Spark,
Sorry you injured yourself!!! I had a landing 20 years ago where wheels would have lessened or prevented the injury. No damage to the glider as well. Spiral fracture to my left arm, though. I had so called Hall "Wheels" on my basetube and they didn't do a bit of good! I now fly with pneumatic wheels and they are great if you need them. My advice to anyone using Hall wheels-THROW THEM AWAY!!! Get something larger that can actually do some good. Same applies to the WW white wheels. Get rid of them and replace them with the lawn mower wheels that a number of people use. These a wider and slightly larger and do work and you can use the same brackets. Heal fast my friend!
John Stokes
www.osceolabaldeagle.com
www.soarsouth.org
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dgs
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:35 am Post subject: |
#32 |
| Avnav8r wrote: |
| I had so called Hall "Wheels" on my basetube and they didn't do a bit of good! I now fly with pneumatic wheels and they are great if you need them. |
Same here; I flared too little and too late, and put the basetube on the ground. I broke a downtube, but luckily had no injury. The Hall's were gone by the next week, replaced by 8" pneumatics.
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HangDiver
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:57 am Post subject: |
#33 |
| Mavi Gogun wrote: |
| ...Could you tell us the LZ altitude? |
LZ is at 5,770 feet above MSL.
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jjcote
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:20 am Post subject: |
#34 |
| Avnav8r wrote: |
| My advice to anyone using Hall wheels-THROW THEM AWAY!!! |
I have Hall wheels on my beach glider. They don't stand a chance of rolling on sand, and after a couple of flying days they got grit in them so that they don't even turn any more, but they work great for keeping the control bar from getting scraped up by the asphalt in the parking lot where we set up.
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Mavi Gogun
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:05 am Post subject: |
#35 |
| Avnav8r wrote: |
| Same applies to the WW white wheels. Get rid of them and replace them with the lawn mower wheels that a number of people use. These a wider and slightly larger and do work and you can use the same brackets. |
John, which brackets would those be- the Wills' that extend off the base bar? Can you replace those impotent white plastic things with pneumatic tyres? |
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blindrodie
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:05 am Post subject: |
#36 |
What type of base tube do you have? 
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mapjim
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:16 am Post subject: |
#37 |
Sorry to hear about the accident. Good luck with the healing.
From 0:31 onward, it looks like your body is way behind the control frame, so that when you start to flare at 0:33, full arm extension is insufficient for a flare (and thus you mush the glider, rather than flaring it). Lowish hand position made that effect even worse (less rotation extracted from the distance pushed). Just what I saw. Like you say, it all may stem from late transition to vertical and to the downtubes. (I didn't see any obvious signs of the speed being insufficient, to my eye.)
Cheers,
Jim
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ddreg
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:44 am Post subject: |
#38 |
Sorry about the accident, but this always brings up a question in my mind.
When do you stop flying and give up to prepare for the crash?
People give the advice on knowing how to crash. At what point in the video should he have given up and gone into crash position mode. |
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bisleybob
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:00 pm Post subject: |
#39 |
i sympathise with the one had writing. i had a whack at the weakend landing a topless (3rd ever flight on it) in nill wind. weird thing was base bar went down i fell forward put my hands down to break my fall and the nose whacked the back of my left hand, blown up like a baloon now 
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Spark
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:03 pm Post subject: |
#40 |
| ddreg wrote: |
Sorry about the accident, but this always brings up a question in my mind.
When do you stop flying and give up to prepare for the crash?
People give the advice on knowing how to crash. At what point in the video should he have given up and gone into crash position mode. |
i'll post a raw clip later today. the slow-mo is very deceiving. from ground effect to impact is only 3.5 secs.
when should I have assumed the position? ... as soon as I knew i couldn't get my feet under me. i waited about 1.5 secs too long whilst trying to keep the nose up.
a major contributor to this is my hand transition technique. It is way too late. if I had transitioned with my hands low on the downtubes on approach rather than trying to transition in ground effect, I would have been able to easily move my hands into the correct flare position.
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