I screwed up.... and added stupidity upon stupidity.
I don't fly with a single suspension harness, and the lines going to my shoulders/the front support lines were not attached to my carabiner.
I was hooked in, but I failed to notice that my shoulder lines were not attached.
After takeoff, I immediately figured out something was wrong, as my head was just about hitting the basetube, and I was having to use my backmuscles to keep my head above the basetube.
I wanted to keep flying, so at times I was basically doing a pushup on the basetube, or going upright, or semi-upright and holding the front of my body up with my arms pushing mostly just down on the base tube, I even tried resting my head on the basetube.
None of these were satisfactory.
Then I figured, maybe I can reach my carabiner while upright, and re-attach the lines in flight.....
Well, I figured that there was no way in hell I should unlock the gate of my main carabiner connecting me to the hangstrap.
A few inches down, is a second carabiner... this connects me to my parachute....
I unlocked the and opened the gate on this one in flight..
And attached my shoulder lines there. I then re-locked the gate, and found the solution passable.....
But lets look at what I did:
Took off with a significant problem with my harness.
Rather than land (as it wouldn't have prevented safely doing so), I unlocked and opened my parachute carabiner in flight, so I could keep flying.
I think I deserve the Hanggliding.org idiot of the month award or something. _________________ H4, Litespeed 4 w/ Mylar sail.
Previous: Airwave K2, Wills Wing Eagle 145
This can be prevented with a thick rubber band( cut from an inner tube),
around the carabiner preventing the lines from sliding out when the lock
is open.
.....
But lets look at what I did:
Took off with a significant problem with my harness.
Rather than land (as it wouldn't have prevented safely doing so), I unlocked and opened my parachute carabiner in flight, so I could keep flying.
I think I deserve the Hanggliding.org idiot of the month award or something.
Assuming Erik's post is not a hoax:
1- You failed to secure all your harness lines in your caribiner w/ a piece of bicycle inner tube. Exposed rubber bands rot and break suddenly and are a bad idea. I use 1/8" bungee cord wrapped several times around the bottom of the biner. F
2 - You used a caribiner to secure to secure your reserve bridle to your harness main? You need a 7mm or 8mm Inox Mallion Rapide for that. Not a caribiner. D
3 - You failed to pre-flight your harness before you got in. D
4- I did not read that you did a proper hang check. So FAIL on that too. F?
5 - After all the s*** I took from douche-bags on YouTube and the Oddball Report forum for my Houdini Act in my cocoon harness several months ago, you have truly outdone me and your self by your aerial Cirque du Solliel act. F
The next time you or anyone else decides to talk out his/her ass about other pilot's errors take a good look in the mirror. I do commend you for at least partially owning up to this alleged** series of inexcusable failures. Emphasis on 'partially'. D-
Is it April 1st yet? I honestly don't believe you did this. You and your brother are too careful. I smell a hoax.
.....
But lets look at what I did:
Took off with a significant problem with my harness.
Rather than land (as it wouldn't have prevented safely doing so), I unlocked and opened my parachute carabiner in flight, so I could keep flying.
I think I deserve the Hanggliding.org idiot of the month award or something.
Assuming Erik's post is not a hoax:
1- You failed to secure all your harness lines in your caribiner w/ a piece of bicycle inner tube. Exposed rubber bands rot and break suddenly and are a bad idea. I use 1/8" bungee cord wrapped several times around the bottom of the biner. F
2 - You used a caribiner to secure to secure your reserve bridle to your harness main? You need a 7mm or 8mm Inox Mallion Rapide for that. Not a caribiner. D
3 - You failed to pre-flight your harness before you got in. D
4- I did not read that you did a proper hang check. So FAIL on that too. F?
5 - After all the s*** I took from douche-bags on YouTube and the Oddball Report forum for my Houdini Act in my cocoon harness several months ago, you have truly outdone me and your self by your aerial Cirque du Solliel act. F
The next time you or anyone else decides to talk out his/her ass about other pilot's errors take a good look in the mirror. I do commend you for at least partially owning up to this alleged** series of inexcusable failures. Emphasis on 'partially'. D-
Is it April 1st yet? I honestly don't believe you did this. You and your brother are too careful. I smell a hoax.
** Where's the video? No video--it didn't happen.
I to hope this didn't actually happen
1-i don't care how you secure them- secure them...I have a single point and my biner is still secured so it can't load the gate.....I wrapped it up with electrical tape
2-a carabiner is fine. it should also be secured such that it doesn't load the gate. I am connected to my chute via two carabiners....my main connects me to my glider and chute. the secondary connects me only to the parachute
3-preflight preflight preflight
4-clearly you didn't do a hangcheck
5-as for once you were in the air- i don't think it was that bad.....depending on how you did it.....one would hope you flew out well away from everything....I can't say its really anyworse then doing a lead climb while rockclimbing and trying to clip your line into a quickdraw while 15 feet over your last piece of protection. I do think going to your parachute biner was the better biner to go to- the odds of needing your parachute are very small- and fully securing yourself into the harness is a priority- as is remaining as securely attached to the glider as possible
that being said....you did a series of really dumb things _________________ TSA, DHS, NDAA and SOPA Seig Heil!
Actually, Johnathon, Rubber bands cut from bycycle inner tubes (thorn tubes
even better) can last for several seasons. 1/8 Bungy also fails after several years. Regular rubber bands won't last a season. I keep them
(the bike tube kind) around to secure tie downs and other stuff. But I sure as hell would not consider them to keep my chute hooks secure.
I change the 1/8 bungy or rubber every year.
I flew an He cocoon for at least five years and never had a problem with tangled lines. Its all disciplined technique, how to get into the harness,
and do a walk through to the front wires to make sure nothing is amiss.
Hang Check, even better!
Denevan himself taught me this.
I'd give Erik at least 1 A+ for making us think about it.
All of us have had our HG.Org stupid pilot of the week moments, mine have been associated with preflights.
So instead of hitting ourselves, we are all human, the good thing about it is we only do things like that once, which means that we are all learning, so were not so stupid after all _________________ Explore nature from the eyes of an Eagle
All of us have had our HG.Org stupid pilot of the week moments, mine have been associated with preflights.
So instead of hitting ourselves, we are all human, the good thing about it is we only do things like that once, which means that we are all learning, so were not so stupid after all
Been there, did several stupid things...pretty much all of them on the ground (discovered as I left the ground, of course). Thanks for the original post to maybe save someone's bacon. _________________ Suppose you were an idiot.
And suppose you were a member of congress.
But I repeat myself.
- Mark Twain
.....
But lets look at what I did:
Took off with a significant problem with my harness.
Rather than land (as it wouldn't have prevented safely doing so), I unlocked and opened my parachute carabiner in flight, so I could keep flying.
I think I deserve the Hanggliding.org idiot of the month award or something.
Assuming Erik's post is not a hoax:
1- You failed to secure all your harness lines in your caribiner w/ a piece of bicycle inner tube. Exposed rubber bands rot and break suddenly and are a bad idea. I use 1/8" bungee cord wrapped several times around the bottom of the biner. F
2 - You used a caribiner to secure to secure your reserve bridle to your harness main? You need a 7mm or 8mm Inox Mallion Rapide for that. Not a caribiner. D
3 - You failed to pre-flight your harness before you got in. D
4- I did not read that you did a proper hang check. So FAIL on that too. F?
5 - After all the s*** I took from douche-bags on YouTube and the Oddball Report forum for my Houdini Act in my cocoon harness several months ago, you have truly outdone me and your self by your aerial Cirque du Solliel act. F
The next time you or anyone else decides to talk out his/her ass about other pilot's errors take a good look in the mirror. I do commend you for at least partially owning up to this alleged** series of inexcusable failures. Emphasis on 'partially'. D-
Is it April 1st yet? I honestly don't believe you did this. You and your brother are too careful. I smell a hoax.
** Where's the video? No video--it didn't happen.
Seems like points 5 and 6 are just your bitterness about something else.
Point 3 is unsupported/invalid, as the lines can fall out anytime the gate is opened between putting the harness on and hooking in.
I don't think point #2 is valid either
Point #1: applies to many harnesses when they are sold, though I've noticed these lines coming out on the ground before, and should have fixed it.
Point #4: hook in check, not hang check, hence the thread title. _________________ H4, Litespeed 4 w/ Mylar sail.
Previous: Airwave K2, Wills Wing Eagle 145
I'm just glad to see you're still hear to post about it. The preflight is without doubt, the most important step in any form of flight and I include the hang check as part of the preflight. Glad it turned out ok. _________________ Freedom 170 FR
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2 - You used a caribiner to secure to secure your reserve bridle to your harness main? You need a 7mm or 8mm Inox Mallion Rapide for that. Not a caribiner. D
...
...
I don't think point #2 is valid either
...
Erik, I have to agree with Jon here. Both maillon rapides and carabiners are deisgned to have a massive amount of strength for the thing's they're connecting. Carabiners are also deisinged to allow quick and easy connection/disconnection, whereas maillon's are designed to be fairly proof from accidental disconnection.
The only time I've ever disconnected my parachute from my harness was when I bought a new parachute, and when I repack it. - though I could repack it with it still attached to the harness.
As there's no need for quick disconnection of your parachute, why allow it?
Erik Boehm wrote:
Rather than land (as it wouldn't have prevented safely doing so),
I don't understand this bit, could you please explain? How would you have been prevented from safely landing? Doesn't all of that spagetti just go slack when you rock upright, and deliver all of the loads through the mains? Surely the SAFEST thing to do would have been to just rock upright, and fly upright down to a landing - no?
Dawson _________________ Delta Bronze
Delta Silver
Aerotow (HG)
Ground Tow (HG)
VHF Radio Operations
Pilot Certificate (HG) Advanced
Safety Officer (HG)
Airborne Sting 2XC 175
...
2 - You used a caribiner to secure to secure your reserve bridle to your harness main? You need a 7mm or 8mm Inox Mallion Rapide for that. Not a caribiner. D
...
...
I don't think point #2 is valid either
...
Erik, I have to agree with Jon here. Both maillon rapides and carabiners are deisgned to have a massive amount of strength for the thing's they're connecting. Carabiners are also deisinged to allow quick and easy connection/disconnection, whereas maillon's are designed to be fairly proof from accidental disconnection.
The only time I've ever disconnected my parachute from my harness was when I bought a new parachute, and when I repack it. - though I could repack it with it still attached to the harness.
As there's no need for quick disconnection of your parachute, why allow it?
Erik Boehm wrote:
Rather than land (as it wouldn't have prevented safely doing so),
I don't understand this bit, could you please explain? How would you have been prevented from safely landing? Doesn't all of that spagetti just go slack when you rock upright, and deliver all of the loads through the mains? Surely the SAFEST thing to do would have been to just rock upright, and fly upright down to a landing - no?
Dawson
_________________ TSA, DHS, NDAA and SOPA Seig Heil!
i think this is some crap about biner verses malion quick access etc.
i have a bine on my harness main to glider and a biner from my harness main to my chute main. with a backup strap through the lot. the biner is a screw shut type and rated around 8 times higher than i need where is the problem.
i prefer this setup to having the main biner through both because in a deployment the chute will have to travel up to the top of the biner past the gate but will be obstucted by all the bungies and inner tubes most likley causing the load across the biner (weaker)
my way my chute is one end of its own dedicated biner my harness at the other in a deployment it wont go accross the gate. if my main biner or hang loop fails i still have a chute. _________________ fly2 tandem (aerowtow training)
falcon 2 and 3 195
aeros Target 16
wills wing eagle 180
Airwave Sportster (L)158
Other favourites flown but not owened
Airwave Xtreme (topless), aeros discuss
Lighten up guys.
Here in lies the source of NME's bitterness. Why start the circle again?
Dude F'd up.
Dude owned up to it.
Dude shared it with us so that someone else might avoid doing it.
I say bravo.
All this other bs is just that... bs.
1- Too right, but better put... why don't you use some bungi?... etc.
2 - BS. Mallion is better, but Biner works.
3 - Drama much? It's not like he missed his leg loops.
#3 is why we secure the lines with a metal ring and safety on the biner.
4- Seriously... how many of you would catch this on a hang check... by all means, lie to me and say you would. Bullshit. Again, this is why we secure it.
5 - After all the s*** I took from douche-bags.... so now you're taking your turn at being a douche? How's that helping?
4- Seriously... how many of you would catch this on a hang check... by all means, lie to me and say you would. Bullshit. Again, this is why we secure it.
Well... I think so, but I've never had it happen, so I'm not positive. When I do a hang check, I turn around to both the left and the right and look at my lines, and I think I'd notice if a line was missing or out of place. I have noticed when I had them twisted (a line had gotten caught over the wrong side of the biner) But I do have them secured with rubber. And I also look at the lines after I clip the harness to the hang strap, before I climb into the harness. _________________ H4 + various skills (only foot-launch so far)
WW UltraSport 147, WW Falcon2 170, PacAir Vision Mark IV 17
My HG wiki profile and my flying blog
I have to say that I think you would have been okay unlocking the main carabiner and slipping the shoulder line into it, then re-locking it. It's not like the open 'biner is just going to peel apart with a couple of hundred pounds hanging from it (or less, presumably, if you were using a downtube or the basetube for partial support).
And yeah, inner-tube segment keeping all the lines at the bottom of the 'biner; quick-link securing 'chute bridle to harness mains.
Ya'll seriously overestimate what you'll "see" in a "preflight" then.
The preflight is your _last_ line of defence... and it's a shitty one. Anyone that knows anything about how the human mind works (or in this case doesn't) will tell you just how horrible it is for this sorta thing. In many cases, it's all we've got... so that's what we use... but damn do we over-rely on such a shitty tool.
So what should you do?
REMOVE every problem you can by design. Some you can't... but man, get rid of the ones that you can. THIS is one of those things.
Unlocking your biner?
Sure.... whatever.
A mate of mine BASE jumps out of my glider... unlocks to do it. Your wing does not burst into flames when you do. Hell, he unclips and climbs around in the glider.... and all we're talking about here is opening the gate?... big whoop.
Quote:
It's not like the open 'biner is just going to peel apart
Ya'll seriously overestimate what you'll "see" in a "preflight" then.
So what should you do?
REMOVE every problem you can by design. Some you can't... but man, get rid of the ones that you can. THIS is one of those things.
It is the case that I'm likely the most thorough preflight guy around these parts. When I was taking lessons, they showed up this laborious process of checking every thing you can see or feel on the glider every time you set it up, and I still do all that stuff every damn time, with the result that it takes me longer to get ready than everybody else (I've had a couple of pilots comment favorably on how thorough I am). This is as opposed to the other end of the spectrum, a few pilots I know who have a preflight that consists of, at most, walking once around the glider and looking at it.
However, I won't disagree in the slightest with your recommendation of what to do. Checking everything is great, but it's even better to have something that will work right even if you don't check it. The most basic item there is hooking in. I do a hang check, but I also hook the harness to the glider before I put it on. And every small item I bring with me that I would care about losing has a safety lanyard. _________________ H4 + various skills (only foot-launch so far)
WW UltraSport 147, WW Falcon2 170, PacAir Vision Mark IV 17
My HG wiki profile and my flying blog
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