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Billyjoe
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:07 am    Post subject: aero-towing a Saturn 167 Reply with quote #1   
Does anyone have any aero-towing experience on a Saturn 167? If so, what is the attachment point for the "vee" line on the keel? Thanks,

Bill Finn
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st1lgar
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #2   
Ask here

http://upgliders.com/contact.php

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Billyjoe
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #3   
Thanks. so far, John Heiney can't remember and the UP site hasn't responded. I was hoping someone with actual towing experience would respond. We'll see:-)

Bill
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fly,surf,&ski
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #4   
Paris Williams was part of the design team, along with of course John and Dave B. He stressed the importance of the glider feeling "on rails" at high speed so it would be easy to aerotow. I'm sure Joe can answer all of you're questions, but you might also want to contact Paris himself with any AT specific Saturn questions @ http://www.californiahg.com/ris .

The only complaint I have ever heard about the saturn is some people say it's stiff(I don't think so though) for a novice level DS glider. It might be slightly stiffer than say a spectrum or an eagle, but at speed it's much more stable(there's always some sort of trade off in HG design), therefore making it easier for lower airtime pilots to tow, and fly fast on landing approach.... Mr. Green

Great Gliders mosh

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J Fritsche
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #5   
fly,surf,&ski wrote:
The only complaint I have ever heard about the saturn is some people say it's stiff(I don't think so though) for a novice level DS glider. It might be slightly stiffer than say a spectrum or an eagle:


As an Eagle owner, I doubt that the Saturn has stiffer handling. It's the only complaint I've got about the Eagle. If it were any stiffer, I don't think it could be considered a novice glider. I can't imagine the Saturn being worse...I've heard nothing but good about the Saturn...I bet it tows great.

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fly,surf,&ski
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #6   
J Fritsche wrote:
fly,surf,&ski wrote:
The only complaint I have ever heard about the saturn is some people say it's stiff(I don't think so though) for a novice level DS glider. It might be slightly stiffer than say a spectrum or an eagle:


As an Eagle owner, I doubt that the Saturn has stiffer handling. It's the only complaint I've got about the Eagle. If it were any stiffer, I don't think it could be considered a novice glider. I can't imagine the Saturn being worse...I've heard nothing but good about the Saturn...I bet it tows great.




Having flown both: I agree 100% Wink

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Billyjoe
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #7   
Thanks for the comments everyone. I'm stepping down in performance from a Talon to a U2 and now, to a Saturn. So, I can handle some stifness (don't read anything into that). I've given up on those mid-day, washing machine-like rippers. Now, all I want to do is tow up before or after the big stuff, boat around for an hour or so, land and have a beer. I think the Saturn is going to be great for that.

Bill
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ddreg
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #8   
What was it about the Talon and U2 that made it not fun anymore. I fly a Saturn now and considering a move to a U2.

Billyjoe wrote:
Thanks for the comments everyone. I'm stepping down in performance from a Talon to a U2 and now, to a Saturn. So, I can handle some stifness (don't read anything into that). I've given up on those mid-day, washing machine-like rippers. Now, all I want to do is tow up before or after the big stuff, boat around for an hour or so, land and have a beer. I think the Saturn is going to be great for that.

Bill
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Billyjoe
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #9   
Nothing about the gliders. It's about me. I'll be 74 this summer and I no longer want to get the poop beat out of me in turbulent air. I don't want to go negative in my harness. I don't want to get spit out of nasty thermals. I don't want to fly XC. I'm not flyin for bragging rights. I'm looking for a different kind of flying experience. Now, it's all about mellow boating around at cloud base or at the top of the inversion in light, predicable lift and landing where my car and the beer are ;-). Kinda like POM eh?
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jj colorado
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #10   
I had a Saturn 167 and it should work out great for you. Very loose with VG off and still easy to handle with VG at 3/4 or full. Very easy to thermal. Fun to fly at the Crawfords.
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fly,surf,&ski
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #11   
Billyjoe wrote:
Nothing about the gliders. It's about me. I'll be 74 this summer and I no longer want to get the poop beat out of me in turbulent air. I don't want to go negative in my harness. I don't want to get spit out of nasty thermals. I don't want to fly XC. I'm not flyin for bragging rights. I'm looking for a different kind of flying experience. Now, it's all about mellow boating around at cloud base or at the top of the inversion in light, predicable lift and landing where my car and the beer are ;-). Kinda like POM eh?


I'm only 36 and after 20 years of hang gliding I already feel the same way, especially about the truck & the beer thumbsup mosh surrender

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Alfie Norks
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #12   
saturn 167 ?
f*** , ……what year is it?
Dude! Are you caught in a time space continuum?
Its 2011! God dam it ! Fly something that won't kill you. mosh mosh sleep sleep sleep Mr. Green

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flyingdawg
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #13   
Are your comments based on pure and utter ignorance or do you have some facts to back them up? I recently flew a Saturn 167 for two years and was incredibly impressed with everything about the glider. I'd love to see a detailed comparison made between it and a Sport 2. I think it would be very surprising how well the Saturn would compare (I'm not speaking from ignorance--I owned and flew a Sport 2). Oh yeah, I ain't dead yet from from flying the Saturn in the big air on Sandia Mountain. So anyone considering a Saturn 167, you will love it.
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Windlord
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #14   
From the Saturn 147 manual

"For aero-towing the Saturn we recommend a "V" bridle connection between the tow line and the pilot/glider
to reduce pitch pressure while on tow. The pilot attachment point should be at the farthest-forward point of the harness.
The glider attachment point should be on the keel about 16 inches in front of the kingpost.
Whether or not your Saturn has the optional "tow/tie-down ring" you must prevent the attachment
point from sliding forward during tow.
To accomplish this, tie an appropriate length of 505 cord between the attachment point and the kingpost.
If the keel attachment point moves significantly forward during tow, pitch pressure can become very light or even negative affecting control,"

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Alfie Norks
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #15   
flyingdawg wrote:
Are your comments based on pure and utter ignorance or do you have some facts to back them up? I recently flew a Saturn 167 for two years and was incredibly impressed with everything about the glider. I'd love to see a detailed comparison made between it and a Sport 2. I think it would be very surprising how well the Saturn would compare (I'm not speaking from ignorance--I owned and flew a Sport 2). Oh yeah, I ain't dead yet from from flying the Saturn in the big air on Sandia Mountain. So anyone considering a Saturn 167, you will love it.

Laughing
yeah your right. i suppose i am ignorant when it comes to living in the past. I would rather fly new technology . Sport 2, wow man, a falcon with a piece of string:lol: why bother? You probably still wear bell bottom blue jeans and platform shoes sleep Laughing

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:44 pm    Post subject: Always a good starting point. Reply with quote #16   
Quote:
The glider attachment point should be on the keel about 16 inches in front of the kingpost.


This should not be taken as gospel. Your hook-in weight will help you decide. "Start"
at 16 inches and be ready to move it forward to lighten the bar pressure. I was upper middle weight range on my 195 Falcon towing behind a DragonFly and my
forward keel attach point was well beyond 16 inches to achieve a bar pressure that was safe and comfortable for me (yes I realize I was on a SS wing and the Saturn is DS).

Towing speed will also be an important factor...

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idahoDal
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #17   
Alfie, bite me.

The Saturn is a sweet glider. Many an ACP will tell you this. They tow like they're on rails and fly like warm butter.

Seriously Alfie you started this. Bite me.
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fly,surf,&ski
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #18   
idahoDal wrote:
Alfie, bite me.

The Saturn is a sweet glider. Many an ACP will tell you this. They tow like they're on rails and fly like warm butter.

Seriously Alfie you started this. Bite me.


owned

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Alfie Norks
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #19   
idahoDal wrote:
Alfie, bite me.

The Saturn is a sweet glider. Many an ACP will tell you this. They tow like they're on rails and fly like warm butter.

Seriously Alfie you started this. Bite me.


ROFL Like a bull shark….chomp chomp ROFL seriously potato dal , you gotta get real and get with the times, its 2011. Its okay to let go of the past. you can go on glide at 35+ mph now a days! ROFL you guys are warbling in bogus backdraft. Its over. Go forward, its 2011 going on 2012 or are you still in the bubble of denial. By the way, its in Egypt. ROFL ROFL ROFL

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #20   
It is tiresome to be in search of useful information on the Org and have to scroll through drivell like the posts here from Alfie Norks.

When i want to read about how a glider flies, I value insight and opinion of someone who has 1st hand knowledge.
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