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Jason
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #21   
Holger wrote:

Jason wrote:
hell for all i know.....Bob himself violated the contract......

OK, can you support your accusation with facts?
its not an accusation...merely professing a lack of understanding of what went on between the two companies that caused them to go their seperate ways- how anyone could read that as an accusation is beyond me


Quote:

Jason wrote:
7k for a kingposted glider......is not a competitive product....I can buy a T2 for 1000 dollars less with way more performance.....and pick it up sooner, and have parts available anywhere in the country

Are you comparing your 10-year-old Sensor with a T2, or have you actually flown a new Sensor to know how it compares? Certainly, a king-posted glider will never be as fast as a topless, but unless you race or do serious cross country stuff, that's way less interesting then i.e. how it circles in weak thermals or how nicely it can be landed.
the newest sensor I flew was the topless- I saw the 710 description and 7k doesn't seem worth it for a glider that almost performs as well as the old 610....


Quote:

My point is we've seen almost all hang glider producers vanish here in the US. There are now three or so left, and none of them is making easy money. Before I criticize one of them I really try to be fair about it.


im not criticizing him....people are free to buy his product....I've flown it for years....it is a quality product....but now i can get more for less..and get it sooner

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Jason
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #22   
Holger wrote:
Jason wrote:
if Bob has a problem with it......he has a written agreement and can do something about it

He did the only thing he could do: ask the HG community to support him in this case. International legal actions aren't an option for a company of the size of Seedwings, Inc.


but international contracts are?

Has he formally requested royalties?

after all thats what the contract states---if they don't change their name. he will "fairly" request royalties- if he hasn't....well....thats on him

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BubbleBoy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #23   
Jason, I don't buy the "it's all on Bob" argument.

Sometimes a market is just too small to prove damages that will be higher than lawyer fees. This doesn't mean that Bob doesn't WANT to do something about it, just that it doesn't work financially.

If the above is true (and I don't know that it is), it's quite fair for pilots to feel that they should not do business with someone who has 'stolen' from another even though no legal action was taken.

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Jason
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #24   
BubbleBoy wrote:
Jason, I don't buy the "it's all on Bob" argument.

Sometimes a market is just too small to prove damages that will be higher than lawyer fees. This doesn't mean that Bob doesn't WANT to do something about it, just that it doesn't work financially.

If the above is true (and I don't know that it is), it's quite fair for pilots to feel that they should not do business with someone who has 'stolen' from another even though no legal action was taken.

JB


that may all be true--- but all ive heard is hearsay and im not going to judge them guilty on that alone

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Holger
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #25   
Jason wrote:
Has he formally requested royalties?

Yes, he requested royalties in '93 shortly before the terms of the agreement expired.
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Jason
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #26   
Holger wrote:
Jason wrote:
Has he formally requested royalties?

Yes, he requested royalties in '93 shortly before the terms of the agreement expired.


can this be proven?

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Holger
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #27   
Jason wrote:
can this be proven?

Bob told me that personally, and I have no reason to doubt his word.
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Jason
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #28   
Holger wrote:
Jason wrote:
can this be proven?

Bob told me that personally, and I have no reason to doubt his word.


that may well be true...but it is still just one side of the story

and to me- by definition its hearsay-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearsay

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Holger
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #29   
Jason wrote:
that may well be true...but it is still just one side of the story

I'm not arguing this, Jason.
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Jason
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #30   
Holger wrote:
Jason wrote:
that may well be true...but it is still just one side of the story

I'm not arguing this, Jason.

did you not say?
Holger wrote:

Before I criticize one of them I really try to be fair about it.



surely the same applies to a company that is overseas

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Holger
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #31   
And I have no problem with you being cautious and asking for the facts before criticizing the other side. As long as you're equally cautious while criticizing Bob we're good.
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Jason
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #32   
Holger wrote:
And I have no problem with you being cautious and asking for the facts before criticizing the other side. As long as you're equally cautious while criticizing Bob we're good.


i truly don't think i have criticized him

the economies of scale simply make it almost impossible for him to compete with say WW on a cost basis

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FMAN
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #33   
Yosemite sometimes,

This photo is from the 1950's era. A huge pile of burning logs was shoved off the cliff to create a waterfall on fire effect. Needless to say, they were unaware or oblivious to the damages, insignificant as it might have seemed at the time, it is poor conduct in our National Park.

I have edited this post to explain the similarity of this behavior in the hope to keep integrity in the history of hang gliding.



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Last edited by FMAN on Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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day dreamer
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #34   
FMAN wrote:
Yosemite sometimes,

I thought they stopped doing that.

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Jason
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #35   
day dreamer wrote:
FMAN wrote:
Yosemite sometimes,

I thought they stopped doing that.

yes (thankfully) they have-what this has to do with seedwings I don't know

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FMAN
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #36   
Another view Mr. Green


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Zeph
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #37   
Seedwings USA still makes some of the sexiest wings out there, Clear back to the 510B, I loved that glider. I hope Bob does well and is enjoying his nitch. Zeph
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Holger
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #38   
Wow, Jason, that is one cool avatar!!
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Jason
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #39   
Holger wrote:
Wow, Jason, that is one cool avatar!!


thanks, that was my first really good flight here in Colorado....I wish i had a camera on yesterday when I was upside down over Blue River Resevoir at 12k Shocked

well a video camera i mean



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noman3
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #40   
nice picture man!
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