[old newbie]

A new topic since this was considered off topic even though a large pecantage off the post were about naming and other issues not founding members.

How will having two orgs doing basically the same thing (well one won't include paragliding ) help hang gliding?

Well at least you seem to be concentrating on what is most important, the name since that seems to be what really caused more pilots to be upset about the national org. If this org is going to be serving the same purpose as what we currently have; insurance, ratings, site insurance. I see it doing nothing but creating complication and division.
How about taking a different role and promoting instruction, flying and leadership. Use the energy to come up with plans that will help the sport and use your clout to get USHPA to act on them. Apathy is the biggest problem use the new org as an place for those that feel frustrated working with USHPA (or don't want to or have not) to step up and work on change. Keep the org inclusive not devisive. Use the new org as a think tank and conduit for volunteering and helping pilots and instructors.

Steve Forslund

[sg]

[SeeMarkFly]

[FPeel]

[AIRTHUG]

[Windlord]

Competition is a good thing. A monopoly is absurd.

[sg]

Insurance premium rates miss the point.

Pilots want a LOW yearly fee and good customer service. The fee is made up of insurance premium + org overhead.

A new, "google efficient", minimum-overhead org, could potentially offer a lower yearly rate even WITH a higher insurance premium. Ushpa takes in a substantial amount of $$$ to pay some fulltime employees plus expenses to run an actual office. A virtual org would cut that all out and experience huge savings.

But the important point is, you will never know if you never try.

This is an experiment. Have no idea how it will turn out.... but the potential is worth rolling the dice. It will take many years to get traction.

[knumbknuts]

Everything SG said plus:

lead, follow, or get out of the way.

USHPA is obstructing growth in the sport by being the only national organization for it and doing close to nothing to promote it.

The national disc golf association works hard to promote their sport.

[old newbie]

Frank WILL IT HELP HANG GLIDING?

[SeeMarkFly]

[FPeel]

[sg]

I think Frank makes a good implied??? point.... when an org rams things through and ignores the membership, it CAUSES Apathy.

A new org, that frequently calls for simple membership votes on everything, could potentially change this and get more people involved.
Id rather try and completely fail, then never give it a shot.

[AIRTHUG]

[sg]

[Wingspan34]

The problem with the USHPA is not what it does right, it's what it does wrong. It's a non profit, member owned corporation that defies the wishes and interests of it's members. WTF!

It began with members having to sign waivers to join. That wasn't a big deal to me, but it was to a number of members. I know a few personally who quit flying as a result. Then, to prop up the USHGA's finances, the BoD (EC) decided to bring in and cradle PGs. They could have worked, instead toward active promotion of hang gliding, but that was too simple. Now, with the aid of the USHGA, PGers are out numbering hang glider pilots and our Nat Org is no longer "ours".

Primarily, our one time hang gliding focused magazine is now a medium for selling PG equipment and promoting that sport. Every month hang gliding focused pilots have to sort the wheat from the chaff (often not worth it!).

Also, the PG faction pushed a name change for the magazine (and the Association) and now plasters itself on the cover every other month. Odd how single surface gliders and rigid wings don't get their own dedicated month covers (or their names on the cover). I, for one, was less annoyed when we were all just "hang gliders" in the US Hang Gliding Association.

Then there was the Logo contest. What a membership PR horror story! After that the Torrey situation gained attention due to BobK's efforts and the USHPA's (EC) response to his requests for assistance - even after gaining his RD seat - was infuriating.

So, the current US "association" is run to promote the strongest runner (PGing). It is directed by an elitist, arrogant Executive Committee that essentially runs OUR association with some advice (twice a year) from our elected Regional Directors. Members have no effective way of registering their interests - in an association that they themselves (we) supposedly own.

So, my fundamental problem with the USHPA is that it does not represent my and many other pilot's best interests. It has set itself above and apart from the membership, who's funds allow the association to exist. The direction that the EC is taking us is not, and has not been, the direction that I see as best. And from what I read here, there are many other hang glider pilots who feel the same on one or more of these points.

As things now stand the USHPA (mainly the Executive Committee) is a great fit with pilots who have no interest or concern for the direction of their Nation Organization. It's a perfect fit for pilots who want to pay a fee, get a rating (or rating card), look at a glossy mag once a month, and have the damage caused by their rare third party involved accidents covered by some insurance. As long as you're happy with that, the USHPA's Executive Committee is happy with YOU! . . . .

If you prefer a membership owned and run organization that actually works in the best interests of its members (in this case hang glider pilots), and if all goes well actually listens and responds to member interests, then this proposed new organization could be for you.

It's all about having a choice!

[remmoore]

[bobk]

[FPeel]

[blindrodie]

[Frontman]

I'm a hang glider pilot. I have no interest in reading or hearing about other sports in a hang gliding magazine.

I want an org that represents my sport, and my sport only. And ditto on the monopoly stuff. When there is only one choice, that choice can take advantage of anything and everything, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Competition is good for everyone. Sign me up when it's ready.