Come on folks. Thia is NOT a whack! He turtled the wing AFTER he drug a tip and pounded in. It happens. Don't ask me how I know! _________________ "Tow me up. I'll find my way down"
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The pilot's family HAS seen this video. It was originally posted the day the 'whack' occurred. We are grateful he was not injured and that he has found a sport about which he is so passionate, and one which has, for the most part, an extremely supportive community.
What IS troubling is the OP's statement that he 'loves this video' and can 'watch it again and again'. Why, exactly? You delight in others' misfortunes? Fun to laugh when others get hurt?
I do hope the video is instructive. I know the pilot learned something that day. (And his pretty face is intact!)
(Now I will go back to lurking around this forum )
getting on the downtubes earlier would have helped eh bob
Nah, he should have waited longer to get on the DTs, he still had too much speed.
He was still pulling the nose down, and when he put one hand on the DTs and was pulling in somewhat, but not the other, it induced a turn (the wind may have been cross too?).
If he had waited longer for pitch pressure to go neutral, before transitioning, that wouldn't have happened.
Either technique can work, you can make mistakes and whack with either technique. _________________ H4, Litespeed 4 w/ Mylar sail.
Previous: Airwave K2, Wills Wing Eagle 145
It's also here begining at 40 seconds. Just a blown hand transition from not waiting until trim speed or better yet, getting it done safely at altitude. It was also windy enough to land safely with both hands on the base bar. It happens.
I believe the pilot in this video was saved from worst injury by the fact that his face slammed the down-tube instead of the ground.
My Advice:
If you are "planning" on slamming the ground - make sure you are wearing a full face helmet. _________________ Just Another Earthbound Misfit
~ It's About Being Able to Fly ~ ____________________________________________________
This is not a Hang Glider. It's a bunch of Hang Glider parts flying in a tight formation!
Last edited by rafaelcjr on Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
What IS troubling is the OP's statement that he 'loves this video' and can 'watch it again and again'. Why, exactly? You delight in others' misfortunes? Fun to laugh when others get hurt?
ok "mom" point taken i have edited it and if you must know i do find enjoyment from this video but dont be so pesamistic.
i would never take enjoyment from seeing someone get hurt or even embarrased.
what i enjoy is that this wonderful sport that i am also very passionate about has a wonderful way of giving us a little lick now and again to let us know its not easy. anyone that glides knows this and, as i have, have experienced it themselves. this fills me with a sense of brotherhood and understanding that i dont go through these things alone, i know, no non flying person watching this video will understand. i have been there and can share with any other person who has also been there. this sense of belonging is what i enjoy
Wingspan, you have not made any constructive comments/observations about the video... It's not for me to say but, out of context, your words appear to be some ranting weirded-out conjecture about stuff and "others". While I agree with most of your ideas, this thread is not the place for them and you are starting to sound obsessed and bored. Please start your own thread about your crusade, rather than hijack anything vaguely related.
So, it looks like the gust is the main cause (ie. have a good look at all wind indicators on and before final approach) and it's effects could have been minimised by an earlier (or later) transistion.
I find myself on the same side as you on a great number of the debates here but I think your out to lunch on this one.
We may agree on this one too - more than you know think.
Sky_Walker wrote:
IF we had any reliable info on a crash or maybe a video like this case, then by all means we all have alot to gain from the analysis.
I agree, this is true. I know of an accident that happened many months ago. The pilot was hurt and is better. There was a video of the accident - but people wanted some "time" to pass. The video has never been shared. And just as we can all gain from sharing such info, we also loose when such info is not shared and analyzed.
Sky_Walker wrote:
But in regards to the most recent accident, as far as I know we have so little information about the crash I don't understand how you think there could be anything to gain from a bunch of wild speculation.
I don't think that "wild" speculation helps either. But when some information is known (i.e., launch site, landing site, glider flown, pilot skill level, apparent injuries, damage to glider, spectator witness accounts, time of day, weather and wind conditions) conservative and reasoned speculation can take place. It can, at the very least, create the opportunity for mental exercise. Given what is known, interested pilots can create "What if" scenarios and work their ways though them with a safe result.
In some ways, accidents without all the answers stimulate more thinking about safety issues than the situations where one single major error is the known cause. People tend to stop thinking when they know the answer.
So, can I say we agree more on this point than we disagree?
Sky_Walker wrote:
There will be a time and place for us to learn from this latest crash but I don't see how anything positive can occur until we know more.
As I mention above, we already know quite a bit. The local pilots have even more to go on. Positive discussions, therefore, could be taking place.
However, as best I understand the situation, people who do not think a reasonable discussion can or will take place, have used emotional pleas and demands to stop all discussion.
And I'd like to point out that if the best sources for information on this latest situation don't think this incident can be discussed here (at any level higher than that of 3rd grade school children) than I seriously doubt they will ever think we are capable of a reasonable adult discussion of this accident.
Sky_Walker wrote:
Give it a rest and please don't carry your crusade to every thread on the board .
This particular thread struck me (pardon the pun) as being an interesting contrast with the other thread (or two) on that other crash.
In example - Here no one was hurt, therefore, somewhat juvenile comments can be made, (wild?) speculation can take place, and (witty?) criticisms of the pilot are allowed. Just because he apparently (or obviously?) was not hurt.
And VERY interestingly - despite the lighter hearted nature of this thread, . . . more than one pilot has mentioned that they are learning something positive (safety-wise) from it!
To that I say - _________________ WW 141 Fusion SP
Master rated, First flight - May 1975
FL, PL, PA, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TURB, X-C
Last edited by Wingspan34 on Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
That " wind on the water" almost looked like a defined gust or perhaps a thermal at the worst possible time ...landing, transition glitch, and flare. tuff break, hope he's o.k.
ego's heal, gliders can be fix.....hurt sucks!
That " wind on the water" almost looked like a defined gust or perhaps a thermal at the worst possible time ...landing, transition glitch, and flare. tuff break, hope he's o.k.
ego's heal, gliders can be fix.....hurt sucks!
Blue skies,
Shaddo
this happened quite a while ago the pilot was fine then and is now , nice to hear from you Shaddo _________________ Explore nature from the eyes of an Eagle
It looked to me like his right arm ended up on the outside of the rear wire.
Correct. This video would be a good contribution to the "hand transition" thread.
I was standing not far from where this happened shooting video of the event and that was after I landed in virtually the same conditions. It was pretty gusty but not unmanageble. There was a prize for the best toe-drag landing. I suppose that Dave had thought about doing a tow-drag before he aborted that idea and found himself in an odd position with respect to landing set-up. Dave also enjoys his style points for doing full vertical flare landings with panache. Somethiing he does very well in normal conditions, which this was not. Combine all these factors and you have a pilot suddenly in a WTF? situation.
Dave very smartly pulled his arms in to avoid breaking a downtube. He did get a very small cut on his nose I seem to recall from his nose wires. Let's not forget that Dave captured that excellent video of Wolfi breaking his wrist when he landed on the Elsinore sandbar with his VG stuck on full. Maybe dave was feeling sympathetic?
Thanks for your input Mom! It's nice to have you here.
One of the last things I expected was for a pilot's close relative to help prove my point that even threads about crashes where no one gets hurt can be seen and have an effect on our loved ones. (Maybe we should have warned you, Mom?)
So, now we have a first hand account of a non-serious crash thread that has been, and/or is being, viewed by "family".
Should this thread end now?
Or, maybe Mom has taken note that more than one pilot has mentioned that they are learning something good from her own son's misadventure. That someone else's sons are a bit safer as a result.
I wonder if that makes Mom feel a bit better?
Thanks, and take care Mom!
Mom wrote:
The pilot's family HAS seen this video. It was originally posted the day the 'whack' occurred. We are grateful he was not injured and that he has found a sport about which he is so passionate, and one which has, for the most part, an extremely supportive community.
What IS troubling is the OP's statement that he 'loves this video' and can 'watch it again and again'. Why, exactly? You delight in others' misfortunes? Fun to laugh when others get hurt?
I do hope the video is instructive. I know the pilot learned something that day. (And his pretty face is intact!)
(Now I will go back to lurking around this forum )
I find myself on the same side as you on a great number of the debates here but I think your out to lunch on this one.
We may agree on this one too - more than you know think.
Sky_Walker wrote:
IF we had any reliable info on a crash or maybe a video like this case, then by all means we all have alot to gain from the analysis.
I agree, this is true. I know of an accident that happened many months ago. The pilot was hurt and is better. There was a video of the accident - but people wanted some "time" to pass. The video has never been shared. And just as we can all gain from sharing such info, we also loose when such info is not shared and analyzed.
Sky_Walker wrote:
But in regards to the most recent accident, as far as I know we have so little information about the crash I don't understand how you think there could be anything to gain from a bunch of wild speculation.
I don't think that "wild" speculation helps either. But when some information is known (i.e., launch site, landing site, glider flown, pilot skill level, apparent injuries, damage to glider, spectator witness accounts, time of day, weather and wind conditions) conservative and reasoned speculation can take place. It can, at the very least, create the opportunity for mental exercise. Given what is known, interested pilots can create "What if" scenarios and work their ways though them with a safe result.
In some ways, accidents without all the answers stimulate more thinking about safety issues than the situations where one single major error is the known cause. People tend to stop thinking when they know the answer.
So, can I say we agree more on this point than we disagree?
Sky_Walker wrote:
There will be a time and place for us to learn from this latest crash but I don't see how anything positive can occur until we know more.
As I mention above, we already know quite a bit. The local pilots have even more to go on. Positive discussions, therefore, could be taking place.
However, as best I understand the situation, people who do not think a reasonable discussion can or will take place, have used emotional pleas and demands to stop all discussion.
And I'd like to point out that if the best sources for information on this latest situation don't think this incident can be discussed here (at any level higher than that of 3rd grade school children) than I seriously doubt they will ever think we are capable of a reasonable adult discussion of this accident.
Sky_Walker wrote:
Give it a rest and please don't carry your crusade to every thread on the board .
This particular thread struck me (pardon the pun) as being an interesting contrast with the other thread (or two) on that other crash.
In example - Here no one was hurt, therefore, somewhat juvenile comments can be made, (wild?) speculation can take place, and (witty?) criticisms of the pilot are allowed. Just because he apparently (or obviously?) was not hurt.
And VERY interestingly - despite the lighter hearted nature of this thread, . . . more than one pilot has mentioned that they are learning something positive (safety-wise) from it!
To that I say -
What can I say about your OCD ranting that already hasn't been said .......reminds my of a certain guy that always ranted about towing.... _________________ Back in the Day ('77-'90)
Wingspan, you have not made any constructive comments/observations about the video...
This video was posted before and I believe I participated in that thread. I, at least, gave it some good attention.
Nicos wrote:
It's not for me to say but, out of context, your words appear to be some ranting weirded-out conjecture about stuff and "others".
I do tend to rely on "others" to participate enough here so that they understand my context. If they don't, then I hope they are curious enough to investigate. Failing all that, I'm okay with them not being sure what to think. People who lack curiosity or an investigative nature are much more prone to experience confusion.
Nicos wrote:
While I agree with most of your ideas, this thread is not the place for them and you are starting to sound obsessed and bored. Please start your own thread about your crusade, rather than hijack anything vaguely related.
Threads around here are hijacked ALL the time. It's hard to find one without at least one tangential, off topic, rabbit trail. I'm surprised you haven't noticed - if you haven't.
Still, I think my posts here have an "interconnected" relevance to issues of importance to this community. That topic of importance being safety. And what is this thread about if it isn't about freely analyzing information in such a way as to increase the knowledge and safe flying within our community of fellow pilots?
Now back to your thread, . . . which is already in progress, . . .
Nicos wrote:
So, it looks like the gust is the main cause (ie. have a good look at all wind indicators on and before final approach) and it's effects could have been minimised by an earlier (or later) transistion.
What can I say about your OCD ranting that already hasn't been said . . .
Well, Dave, if you had the actual qualifications to make such a comment, you wouldn't.* Therefore, being unqualified to make such a statement, I suggest you retract it and apologize.
I have already found it necessary to speak with SG about other members here recently acting in a harassing or abusive manner - and, in fact, violating site rules. Now, . . . SG is very busy and he doesn't need to be babysitting members like yourself. So how about some self moderation?
BTW - What better subject to be passionate (more respectful term, eh?) about than safety?
* If you, in fact, do have some professional standing then you are in violation of the ethical codes you have sworn to uphold. And you would also be in violation of Federal medical confidentiality laws. Either could lose you your license to practice and open you up to a malpractice law suit. _________________ WW 141 Fusion SP
Master rated, First flight - May 1975
FL, PL, PA, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TURB, X-C
I have already found it necessary to speak with SG about other members here recently acting in a harassing or abusive manner
_________________ H-3 FL FSL ST
Sport2 155
Sport Pilot Antares 582 Trike
USAF 74/78 and USAFR 88/90 and proud to have served
Don't die until you're dead and in the mean time keep your eyes on Jesus
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...reminds my of a certain guy that always ranted about towing.... 
