| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Should we know who votes to bury topics in the Basement? |
| Yes, if someone is going to try to bury a topic, we should know who that is. |
|
55% |
[ 34 ] |
| No, that should be a private decision based on personal preferences. |
|
44% |
[ 27 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 61 |
|
|
fly,surf,&ski
3 thumbs up
Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Posts: 1100
Location: Torrey Pines
|
 Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: |
 #81 |
| flyhigh013 wrote: |
As I understand it, page views tracks unique IP addresses. If you view the thread 10,000 times from the same computer, that's still only 1 page view.
|
You really didn't think this was the case did you? 
If that were the case I think SG would be making lot's of money from this website not spending his money/time.
(that would mean 149,000 different IP addresses clicked "things that make you laugh your ass off")
_________________
Help preserve Hang Gliding at Torrey Pines
Join the Torrey Hawks (its free)
Last edited by fly,surf,&ski on Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Lobido
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 4099
Location: St. Croix, US Virgin Islands
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:43 pm Post subject: |
#82 |
I came to bury this topic, not to praise it!
_________________
I keep cuttin' it and cuttin' it, but it's still too short.
 |
|
|
|
Wingspan34
2 thumbs up
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:15 pm Post subject: |
#83 |
I think the bury button has the potential to get abused.
In the real world there are mechanisms for investigating the abuse of a system of voting. In such a case ballots still remain private but the count (or registration records) can be looked into and are typically revealed to the public.
I don't know if SG can "see" who's voting to bury a topic, or how many, but as of now, we the voters can't know any of this. We can't know that the process isn't being messed with - and that doesn't seem quite right.
And who IS voting to bury a topic? What if a collection of very low post count, barely participating, members are among those repeatedly voting to bury BobK's threads (or even other hot political or contentious threads)? I doubt it, but how do we know? Currently there's no mechanism in place to look into this - that we know of. And it'd probably be a pain for SG to create such a mechanism.
Also, in the "real" world while people can vote anonymously, they also get to vote "yes" OR "no", not just "no". Allowing people to only vote "no", excludes all those who want a thread to continue, from having a voice. I think that granting the YEA sayers an opportunity to vote to resurrect a thread is the simplest solution to this Bury Button Controversy. If a buried topic doesn't get "raised from the dead" then obviously more people want it off the front page than do want it there.
Because I think that there are many people here who would rather not have ANY political threads (even HG related) to sift through, I think that many such threads will end up being buried - even if a resurrect button was available. That's one reason why I'd like to see a dedicated "Politics" section.
Oh, and I think SG should allow Bob some space in those rotating ads at the bottom of our posts where he can put his VOTE FOR message. SG could call it "editorial space". 
_________________
WW 141 Fusion SP
Master rated, First flight - May 1975
FL, PL, PA, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TURB, X-C |
|
|
|
bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1842
Location: San Diego
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:30 pm Post subject: |
#84 |
Wingspan, your clarity of exposition is right on target. Thanks.
You mentioned a small number being able to bury a topic. I wonder if just one person (with several accounts and an anonymized IP address) could bury a topic. If that's possible, then it really should be fixed. And even if it's not possible, there should be some number who can bring a topic back. Didn't someone propose that passing a new law should require 2/3 of a legislature but repealing a law should require only 1/3? I think a similar (but reversed) rule could work here. Maybe 5% could vote to bury a topic, but 10% could resurrect it.
| Wingspan34 wrote: |
I think the bury button has the potential to get abused.
In the real world there are mechanisms for investigating the abuse of a system of voting. In such a case ballots still remain private but the count (or registration records) can be looked into and are typically revealed to the public.
I don't know if SG can "see" who's voting to bury a topic, or how many, but as of now, we the voters can't know any of this. We can't know that the process isn't being messed with - and that doesn't seem quite right.
And who IS voting to bury a topic? What if a collection of very low post count, barely participating, members are among those repeatedly voting to bury BobK's threads (or even other hot political or contentious threads)? I doubt it, but how do we know? Currently there's no mechanism in place to look into this - that we know of. And it'd probably be a pain for SG to create such a mechanism.
Also, in the "real" world while people can vote anonymously, they also get to vote "yes" OR "no", not just "no". Allowing people to only vote "no", excludes all those who want a thread to continue, from having a voice. I think that granting the YEA sayers an opportunity to vote to resurrect a thread is the simplest solution to this Bury Button Controversy. If a buried topic doesn't get "raised from the dead" then obviously more people want it off the front page than do want it there.
Because I think that there are many people here who would rather not have ANY political threads (even HG related) to sift through, I think that many such threads will end up being buried - even if a resurrect button was available. That's one reason why I'd like to see a dedicated "Politics" section.
Oh, and I think SG should allow Bob some space in those rotating ads at the bottom of our posts where he can put his VOTE FOR message. SG could call it "editorial space". |
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders • Join the Torrey Hawks • Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
|
|
|
AIRTHUG
3 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 6160
Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject: |
#85 |
| bobk wrote: |
| I wonder if just one person (with several accounts and an anonymized IP address) could bury a topic. If that's possible, then it really should be fixed. |
I wonder if someone that was well versed in computer hacking could log into the site and remove a topic altogether?
_________________
Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/AIRTHUG |
|
|
|
FPeel
3 thumbs up
Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: San Jose, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:01 pm Post subject: |
#86 |
Regardless, this post is now in the basement.
_________________
"If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space." - Anonymous |
|
|
|
SeeMarkFly
2 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 1681
Location: Lakeview Oregon
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:18 am Post subject: |
#87 |
| FPeel wrote: |
| Regardless, this post is now in the basement. |
Kind of feels like home to me. I'm starting to like it here.
Those who control the news, control the views.
I wonder who is trying to control us?
_________________
Mark Webber
225 Falcon (I can land this one)
163 Super Sport (I can't land this one)
KG6HOT
complacency about complacency is probably the enemy. |
|
|
|
HGXC
1 thumbs up
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 2949
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:58 am Post subject: |
#88 |
| sg wrote: |
Delete a post? Id be instantly called an evil nazi. Hell, I was practically called that just for pausing a thread for a day 
I may end up adding a "vote to keep" option. Then show the vote to keep versus vote to bury. If the ratio gets to far out of whack, THEN its buried.
The way it is now, its a one way street. |
My vote is we are all people and that makes it an imperfect internet world we live. Given that the only method we should ever have to avoid a post that seems unpleasant is ....DON'T GO TO THAT THREAD. If the thread itself is deemed offensive and destructive my the manager of the list he can remove it as his wish.....its his list.
No bury buttons and if you have them at least own up and reveal yourself.
Will someone in the f ing world get some guts 
Dennis
_________________
Organ Donation Saves Lives
Glider = ATOS B-V, Rating = H5 |
|
|
|
FPeel
3 thumbs up
Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: San Jose, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:06 am Post subject: |
#89 |
| HGXC wrote: |
| My vote is we are all people and that makes it an imperfect internet world we live. Given that the only method we should ever have to avoid a post that seems unpleasant is ....DON'T GO TO THAT THREAD. |
Now Dennis, that attitude just won't do. Certain readers would see a thread title that caused them concern and their curiosity would get the better of them. They'd eventually HAVE to look, then would feel guilty for having done so. Even worse they might be offended by the thread's evil contents. Beyond that they could even have a moment of clarity and see the world from another viewpoint. Oh, the humanity! It's our job as good citizens to protect the sensitive amongst us as they're incapable of doing so for themselves. The cost savings on therapy alone make it worth our sacrifice. Now just accept that and let's move on.
| Quote: |
| Will someone in the f ing world get some guts |
You're kidding, right? Well, you have to know that I am!
Truthfully, there are still people in this world with "guts". I believe a few of them are reading this discussion. Unlike some they're not afraid of the monsters in "The Basement."
_________________
"If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space." - Anonymous |
|
|
|
bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1842
Location: San Diego
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:59 am Post subject: |
#90 |
Frank, we may not always agree, but I sure enjoy your posts!!
I am somewhat disappointed to see a discussion about burying topics ... be buried.
But whenever another good discussion ends up in the basement, I remember a quote from the honorable SeeMarkFly:
| SeeMarkFly wrote: |
| Welcome to ""The Basement". Some of my best work is here. |
I now know what you meant my friend. 
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders • Join the Torrey Hawks • Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
|
|
|
FPeel
3 thumbs up
Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: San Jose, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:01 pm Post subject: |
#91 |
| bobk wrote: |
Frank, we may not always agree, but I sure enjoy your posts!!
|
I'm used to being disagreed with, but you and I probably agree on more than you might think. That's why we're here having secret meetings in "The Basement." To find this place one has to come looking which means they're interested in what's going on. Whether they admit it or not.
Right, Mark, Paul, et al? 
_________________
"If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space." - Anonymous |
|
|
|
Skyhighwoman
3 thumbs up
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 2197
Location: Bay Area
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:34 pm Post subject: |
#92 |
Was not me this time. 
I was going to let this play out it seems others took care of it.
WOW! It is dark down here. What was that?!?
I am out of here.
_________________
H4 (started 1987) - DHP
flying: U2160, Falcon 2 195, Litesport
http://www.youtube.com/skyhighwoman
Look not just with your eyes but also your brain. There's a whole new world. |
|
|
|
FPeel
3 thumbs up
Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: San Jose, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:54 pm Post subject: |
#93 |
Coward. That's it. Run away like a gir... uh, scaredy cat.
_________________
"If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space." - Anonymous |
|
|
|
AIRTHUG
3 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 6160
Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:01 pm Post subject: |
#94 |
| bobk wrote: |
| I am somewhat disappointed to see a discussion about burying topics ... be buried. |
Perhaps people are sending you a message by burying this topic? The message being, that they don't care, and/or don't want this on their front page?
The question that remains unanswered is: how many bury votes does it take before a thread is relocated to the basement?
_________________
Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/AIRTHUG |
|
|
|
FPeel
3 thumbs up
Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: San Jose, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:11 pm Post subject: |
#95 |
| flyhigh013 wrote: |
| Perhaps people are sending you a message by burying this topic? The message being, that they don't care, and/or don't want this on their front page? |
Don't be silly. While enough may not want to see the topic to send it to "The Basement", it is unlikely that collectively anyone is "sending a message." The average person simply does not approach the world that way; they're simply not that vindictive. From a behavioral perspective, this group is pretty normal in spite of how they may view themselves because of their "different" avocation.
| Quote: |
| The question that remains unanswered is: how many bury votes does it take before a thread is relocated to the basement? |
Only SG knows for sure.
BTW, you had to come looking for this discussion. Why?
_________________
"If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space." - Anonymous |
|
|
|
AIRTHUG
3 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 6160
Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:37 pm Post subject: |
#96 |
| FPeel wrote: |
| BTW, you had to come looking for this discussion. Why? |
I was curious if it died after being buried, or if people were continuing to post.
I didn't mean 'sending a message' in a vindictive way, I just meant that the thread getting buried should serve as a message- people either don't care or don't want it on the home page.
SG, are you out there? How many votes to bury does it take?
_________________
Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/AIRTHUG |
|
|
|
FPeel
3 thumbs up
Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: San Jose, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:03 pm Post subject: |
#97 |
| flyhigh013 wrote: |
| I was curious if it died after being buried, or if people were continuing to post. |
Killing a subject would be paramount to censorship which is not one of SG's favorite words.
| Quote: |
| I didn't mean 'sending a message' in a vindictive way, I just meant that the thread getting buried should serve as a message- people either don't care or don't want it on the home page. |
The phrase "should serve as a message" in your reply still suggests vindictiveness; like it's supposed to teach someone a lesson. So I'll ignore it because you say that's not your intent.
It's actually both; don't care and aren't interested. Most people don't care much for anything that gets very far past the superfluous. Those subjects force them to think, so they shy away.
Why do you think TV has the programming it does? Sound bite news, shows with simplistic story lines and all it requires the viewer to do is sit and let the box do all the work. Interestingly, staring at a wall for several hours and watching TV have similar effects on the brain. TV switches the brain from Beta waves, which mean logical thought is occurring, to low Alpha waves which are associated with being in a vegetative state.
So, as you can see, "The Basement" is the antithesis of TV! Aren't you glad you came and asked? ;-)
_________________
"If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space." - Anonymous |
|
|
|
Wingspan34
2 thumbs up
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: |
#98 |
I think I'll perform a little experiment. I'll post a thread on the front page. In that post I'll ask people to vote to bury the thread. But I'll ask every one who does, to voluntarily post that they are pushing the bury button. If people are mostly honest we'll get an idea of how many votes it takes to bury a topic. Sneaky eh? 
_________________
WW 141 Fusion SP
Master rated, First flight - May 1975
FL, PL, PA, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TURB, X-C |
|
|
|
Wingspan34
2 thumbs up
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:12 pm Post subject: |
#99 |
Oh well. SG shut down my little experiment. 
But I think he is working to address features of this issue.
_________________
WW 141 Fusion SP
Master rated, First flight - May 1975
FL, PL, PA, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TURB, X-C |
|
|
|
bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1842
Location: San Diego
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:04 pm Post subject: |
#100 |
| Wingspan34 wrote: |
| Oh well. SG shut down my little experiment. |
It was a good try. I know that SG has been protective of that number - as he should be - because it is a bit of a vulnerability when it comes to freedom of speech. If it's a relatively low number (which I suspect it is), then that would encourage a small group to secretly band together to sink anything they don't like. That may already be happening (formally or informally) since the same kinds of topics seem to be buried so quickly.
But the fact that the actual number needs to be protected is probably telling us that this is not a very good system. I've thought about ways to test the "bury" count that aren't as obvious. For example, a group of friends could start an innocuous topic (that no one else would want to bury) and then try to sink it themselves. But from an ethical standpoint, if SG doesn't want us to know, then I won't violate that. However, there may be folks who are not so ethical, and they may already know the bury count. And that's the problem with ethics - they're not much help in a knife fight.
But to better address the issue of "front page" topics, I was thinking about an opposite approach. What if rather than burying topics (to keep them off the front page), we had a "promote" system where topics that were felt especially worthy of public viewing would be voted ONTO the front page. Of course, that would mean that there would have to be some other "regular" place for all topics to show up (since they wouldn't be on the front page). Maybe that would be a separate forum for "latest posts". Most of us interested in seeing everything would simply go there to start with rather than the front page (which would contain only the top most promoted topics).
What do you think?
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders • Join the Torrey Hawks • Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
|
|
|
|
Unanswered
Highest rated...
Topics
