[dgs]

[bsquare]

Wow, I never thought I would be an "old-guy", but I did make it to 49. So far, I can do pretty much everything I have ever done as long as I can take a nap shortly after strenuous activity.

Having read this thread, I am reminded that doing a loop is on my bucket list. Maybe I should take that class out in Utah soon.

[blindrodie]

50 here as well. Never felt better. Heck yeah it's hurts more and longer but there are chemicals for that! (leave it alone Frank )

I find I only have to make a more conscience effort to push myself physically and mentally, no matter what I do. Owning horses sure frikin helps lemme tell ya!

[Wingspan34]

FlyingTechGuy,

You and several others make very good points about how age isn't, or doesn't need to be, a factor in hang gliding safely.

However, I can't look at the recent stats and believe that some factors related to age have not been involved.

#1 Fellow who crashed on top at LOMFP

#2 Fellow who clipped tree in LZ at LOMFP

#3 Fellow who crashed his rigid wing on landing on the west coast

#4 Fellow who crashed at Wallaby Ranch upon landing

#5 Fellow who crashed after take off at Hensons

(sorry for the omission of names, but I'm very bad at recalling them)

All of these guys were in their 50's, 60's or older - and I may be forgetting one or two.


Here are some possible contributing factors:

- Less physically fit and/or sharp, in a general way, than younger pilots.

- Unforeseen or unexpected in-air medical emergency.

- Been doing it so long, they don't figure they can screw up.

- Lack of currency.

- The "Respect Factor". The pilot may be repeatedly screwing up skill wise, may not be aware of the problem, and fellow pilots overlook it due to pilot's seniority in the sport.

- Pride or Embarrassment Factor. Pilot is too proud/embarrassed to seek help for known deficiencies, because of his/her seniority in the sport.

- "Die With Your Boots On" Syndrome. Pilot would rather die flying, than in some hospital bed or retirement home. They may know their skills are waning but just won't give up flying.


Then again, perhaps this long string of older pilot fatalities are simply coincidental.

And please note as well, that many of the possible age related safety factors I mentioned above COULD be just as valid for younger pilots. However, the odds of experiencing one or more of these issues certainly goes up with age.

[HGXC]

Great and timely topic for me.

This year I will have won our local (New England) XC contest for the fourth time. Its a nice and among the longest continually run local XC meet in the country. I have one or placed 17 times since 82 when it started. (I think it was 82?).

Anyway it was my first win since i had surgery a few years back and it took a few year after surgery to regain the confidence and skills required to have a long one in NE. My flight was in May and luckily I was in race mode and went the 87.5 in 3 hours. I was exhausted (freezing temps at 8k+ real strong lift and sink you know the deal). After that flight i had a few more but I found myself going less after July when the good air tends to modify. In a way I was loosing my will to compete because of my physical condition.

I went and had my annual and have made a commitment to a diet and increase in exercise and overall activity. My goal is to get in the best shape i can for next year. If i don't I won't and a chance against the good pilots in my area that fly more and are younger. I don't think I could downsize, maybe but the thought if it isn't working for me, I think if i couldn't do it anymore I would go into a sailplane. Ron G is always taunting me about his multiple hundred mile flights and I can see those days ahead of me, just not yet....I hope

I keep hoping that Felix will invent a 50lb ATOS but until then back to lifting and the stationary bike

Dennis

[Alex]

[Wingspan34]

[bdsnyder]

I am going to turn 50 next year but the following article truely inspires me.


WW II Bombardier Still Flying a Hang Glider at Age 89

Posted Oct 15, 2009 8:00AM By Tim Povtak (RSS feed)


POLK CITY, Fla. -- After flying 50 combat missions over two tours of duty in World War II, Neal Goss returned home a reluctant American hero.

Sixty-four years later, he has done it again.

Goss, who turned 89 earlier this month, never left the skies he once helped patrol for his country, trading his B-17 bomber for a variety of private aircraft, eventually leading to his hang glider, which he still flies solo at least two days every month at the Wallaby Ranch in Central Florida.

He was recognized three years ago by the Guinness Book of World Records as the oldest active hang glider, a record to which he continues to build.

Time may have taken most of our heroes from the most devastating and significant war in world history, but time hasn't robbed the zest from Goss, leaving him to inspire a whole new generation.

"I figure that they probably have hang gliders and sail boats up in heaven somewhere,'' he said after one recent flight. "I don't plan on being there anytime soon, but I want to be ready when I get there.''

Goss, a First Lieutenant in the Army Air Corp until 1945, served as a bombardier/navigator as part of the Flying Fortress squadron that dropped more than 9,000 tons of bombs and shot down 200 enemy planes during the war.

Today, he flies only for the thrill of the sport, soaring in his light, unmotorized aircraft that takes him as high as 6,000 feet above the ground, using body control and thermal drafts to navigate his way across the countryside, providing a view and a freedom that few have enjoyed.

"I'm not a hero (from the war). I didn't think I was brave. I was just doing a job for my country,'' he said. "This flying now is fun. It makes you feel like one of the birds. I never had this view from inside the bomber.''

When he returned home from the War, Goss promised his aging mother that she would be proud, not so much for what he had done for his country, but for the way he would live the rest of his life, so grateful for coming home alive, making sure his time here was well spent. He certainly has gotten his money's worth.

At a time when most of his peers have either died or turned to a sedentary lifestyle, Goss keeps pressing the accelerator. He lives alone today in his Panama City home where he and his wife raised their four children, now making the four-hour drive by himself to the Wallaby Ranch at least once a month to fly.

His concessions to age still rankle him, yet he knows how far he can push. He no longer jumps off cliffs and mountains in other parts of the country with his hang glider, preferring the more controlled starts he gets with a tow. He gave up racing motorcycles almost 10 years ago. He no longer sky dives or goes deep sea diving with friends. He stopped wind surfing shortly after he closed his dental practice at age 82, leaving behind patients of 50 years. He stopped making his annual week-long trip to Guatemala, where he provided free dental care to Indians in the poor parts of the country.

He has cut back on his sailing, too, although he made a 200-mile voyage just last year down the West Coast of Florida, from his home to the home of his daughters who live in the Tampa area. His biggest regret is being bypassed by NASA several years ago when they were looking for a senior citizen to join a space shuttle flight.

"They wanted someone with a bigger name, but I've been very fortunate. I wanted to fly since I was a young boy,'' he said. "And I'll do this for as long as they let me, hopefully another 10 years. I would just tell anyone my age to go for it. You have nothing to lose.''

Goss is amazingly healthy for 89. He suffers from a frustrating neurological disorder that affects his speech, making him difficult to understand, forcing a questioner to piece together his sentences. Yet his body remains taut and strong. His walk is slow because both his knee joints need replacing. None of that matters, though, when he is soaring close to the clouds, guiding his craft with a veteran's experience, surveying all that is below and above him. He calls it a peek of what to expect in heaven.

He will be part of a flying extravaganza at the nearby Fantasy of Flight attraction Nov. 7-8, when he makes his usual trip to the area during the week of Veterans Day.

"He's way beyond unusual,'' said Malcolm Jones, a longtime friend, whom met Goss when they both were just learning to hang glide in the Tennessee mountains. At the time, Jones was 18 and a daring teenager. Goss was 53, considered old to be learning a new sport. "He's an inspiration to everyone he meets.''

Although flying a hang glider is considered relatively safe, he has had his share of close calls since starting almost 36 years ago. There was the broken ankle, the skull fracture, the four different times he landed in trees when he missed his approach, once leaving him in a swamp where he spent the night before he was rescued in the morning.

One crash resulted in a gash on his head that was closed by another flier with a staple gun to stop the bleeding. Through the years, he has flown from the beach, behind boats, off mountaintops and across hundreds of miles in competition.

He still uses the same helmet he has used for the last 30 years. It's nicked and dented and ugly orange. It's both a reminder and a badge of courage. For each of his tree lands, there are distinct notches in the helmet, a way to celebrate his survival each time.

His flying harness is old, still held together by duct tape, his do-it-all answer to anything that breaks. Still fiercely independent, Goss sounds embarrassed when he must ask Jones for help in moving his glider or getting into his sling to fly.

His daughters, who came to his flights this month, have watched him for so many years, they don't worry anymore about the dangers or potential problems that could arise because of his age.

"He's made it clear to us, that if anything ever happened to him -- like something really went wrong and he crashed � that we better not let anyone know about it,'' said daughter Sigrid Edwards. "He loves this place too much, and he wouldn't want his end to reflect badly on anyone here. And we'd honor that. He's always pushed the envelope a little bit.''

Daughter Carol Goss has another theory about her father, the way he has lived his life, and the way his amazing story eventually will end. After surviving bombing missions over Sicily, Italy, France, Austria and Greece, after skidding off runways during the War, there is nothing now that could deter him.

"We don't worry about him up there,'' Carol said. "But it would be a helluva way to go, wouldn't it?''

Her father, she believes, won't be taking his last breaths on earth from a hospital room, or in a rest home with the elderly, not after living such a free-spirited life.

"If he was told his days were numbered and he had to go to a nursing home, he'd try his best for one last adventure,'' she said fondly. "He'd get on a sail boat and tell us he wanted one last trip around the world. And we'd all say goodbye.''

[JR]

Of course, another explanation for older pilots being hurt or killed more often is that, statistically-speaking, most of the pilots flying hang gliders these day are older.

JR

[Wingspan34]

[FormerFF]

I think that some of us are missing the point. I don't think Wingspan is saying that older pilots aren't capable of flying safely, it's more a matter of your body changing and making allowances for those changes.

One of the things that happens as you get older is that your field of vision narrows. In order to make allowance for this, you have to learn to turn your head. A somewhat reduced field of vision doesn't make you an unsafe pilot as long as you adapt to it. Another thing that happens is that it becomes more difficult to deal with multiple points of focus. Ever watch a teenager do homework? They typically have three or four things going on at the same time. Most adults can't do that. As we get older, we may have to make a conscious effort to keep up a scan so that we don't become focused on only one part of the flight.

As you get older, you become more sensitive to motion. If you don't believe me, try taking a ride on a Tilt-a-Whirl. Stamina and strength tend to decline as well, so maybe an hour and a half is enough, whereas two or three hours used to be good.

I think this is more of an issue for pilots who have been flying a long time, and have lost a bit physically. Me, I'm still getting started at this and have no expectations of what I used to be able to do, but if I'd been flying a long time and used to have mad skills and have since lost a step, I'd be a risk to myself if I didn't recognize it.

[gasdive]

Something that hasn't been mentioned is the converse. How many older pilots have taken an active interest in their health that they didn't or wouldn't have without hang gliding? I'm one. I've slimmed down from 105 kg (230 lb) down to 90 kg (200 lb). I've done that *only* because of hang gliding. I'm still loosing weight, gaining muscle. I work behind a desk and I sit on my arse all day. I was prime heart attack material. No somewhat less so. I took a brisk walk on the beach for an hour and a half on the weekend and it was nothing, not even sore. Not a stellar athletic performance but two years ago I would pause on the landing when walking up stairs....

I'm not unique. I see similar stories on here all the time.

Cheers Jason =:)

[Jason]

HOW OLD WAS THE GUY THAT LANDED IN THE HUDSON?

[Wingspan34]

This is the kind of proactive thinking I'd like to see more of. But within the context of longer term active hang glider pilots. In other words, not what can I do to begin hang gliding (at an older age) so that I'm better able to participate, but what can I do as an active (longer term?) hang glider pilot so that I don't become one of those "over 50" statistics.

I and others have mentioned things like:

- Get a Medical Stress Check to be sure you're not on the verge of a coronary or stroke.

- Get your eyes checked to ensure you're seeing all you need to see. Maybe a hearing check too.

- If you're unsure of your launch and/or landing skills ASK other pilots to give you some input. Then FIX the problems.

- Lose some weight.

- Start a good exercise program and stick to it.

- Try to fly regularly (at least once a month?).


Any other suggestions?

[Jason]

my dad is 63, he went and bought a t2c, (oh god this is starting to sound like a rhyme)

flying hull with him this summer i was working something underneath him, then he left, and went out into the valley, I got above him, then that stinker hooked into something WAY better and took off ot the top of the stack.........

[Wingspan34]

[FlyingTechGuy]

[CAL]

So wingspan what are you going to do personaly ? how are you going to improve your odds at your age ? are you thinking of calling it quits ? what are you doing that concerns you so much ?

[Wingspan34]

FlyingTechGuy,

I'm sorry, maybe the punchy emote made my comment read the wrong way. It wasn't meant to indicate I was mad at Jason, or anything against older pilots, but rather that a younger (cocky? - - ready to fight?) pilot might have shot for Teterborough - which I truly think would have been a BIG (and deadly) mistake.

Mainly, I was kidding in a sarcastic way. It may take you a little while to get used to my humor - and you're new here, so, . . . What I really think is that "Sully" Sullenberger made the best of his experience and talents. The result was probably the best outcome you could hope for.

Besides all that, I don't know why you think I'm advocating that pilots that are "that old" should "not be allowed to fly . . .". I'm THAT old! BTW, I just looked up and noticed that Capt. Sullenberger is only 5 years older then I am, at 58 years old. He could be my older brother.

So, FlyingTechGuy,

Instead of being so confrontational, maybe you can tell us what you honestly think about this fairly extended trend of "over 50" hang glider pilot fatalities. Does it mean anything to you? If so, then some constructive comments would be appreciated.

[HGXC]

Span man says: