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Wes
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Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 257
Location: Salt Lake City
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 Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:36 pm Post subject: SG needs to look in the mirror |
 #1 |
Delete my profile. This was a valuable source of information but now it’s a one-sided cluster. I whole heartedly support transparently in the USHPA business but I can’t be a part of your methods. You locked the tread stating that it wasn’t going any ware, rebuke the Ryan for starting a couple of other threads when he tried to voice his opposition to being locked out, then you reopen the thread when BOBK comes back with more fuel for the fire. Seems like this happened to BOBK at the BOD meeting don’t you think? You’re the moderator of this forum and wielded your power to your own means. Its your right and under the current bylaws it was the right of the board members to do what you hated the most to BOBK. In this situation you are no better than the system you are trying to change and a hypocrite. That doesn’t sound like your fostering a meaningful dialog unless they agree with you on this subject. You owe the Voights a public apology. I know I wont see it and if you recognize me at some flying site some ware please don’t offer me your hand until you do apologize. This my opinion and I have nothing to gain by making it known other than the fact I will sleep well tonight and go flying in the morning. Good luck and fly safe
Wes |
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Jason
3 thumbs up
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 7530
Location: Stapleton, Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:53 pm Post subject: |
#2 |
he closed the thread because nothing new was being revealed
then he became aware of something new
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TSA, DHS, NDAA and SOPA Seig Heil! |
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HGXC
1 thumbs up
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 2921
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:07 pm Post subject: |
#3 |
That would be cruel and inhuman punishment 
Dennis
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Glider = ATOS B-V, Rating = H5 |
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 11030
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject: |
#4 |
As I explained, threads like that are not popular here but I allow them when there is something useful.
That thread reached a point where it was going in circles. The same thing was being said over and over and over again by both sides.
Ryan attempted to start a new thread to discuss POST counts??? Thats how silly and worthless the discussion got there. So I locked it until there was something new to talk about. Its called moderation. With new info, its open for discussion again.
Ryan is free to post on that thread. Its open. Isnt that what he wanted? There you go. If he had anything new to add, I would have unlocked the thread as well, but counting who made how many posts wasnt exactly worthy of that 
The thread was effectively put on pause, and then unpaused. Dont see an issue. Have nothing to apologize for. Everyone was equally locked out of the thread for a little while. Ryan had plenty to say on that thread. Bob was just shut out. Your analogy is way off target.
PS: Im not your elected representative.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
Last edited by sg on Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:30 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1842
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: SG needs to look in the mirror |
#5 |
| Wes wrote: |
Delete my profile. This was a valuable source of information but now it’s a one-sided cluster. I whole heartedly support transparently in the USHPA business but I can’t be a part of your methods. You locked the tread stating that it wasn’t going any ware, rebuke the Ryan for starting a couple of other threads when he tried to voice his opposition to being locked out, then you reopen the thread when BOBK comes back with more fuel for the fire. Seems like this happened to BOBK at the BOD meeting don’t you think? You’re the moderator of this forum and wielded your power to your own means. Its your right and under the current bylaws it was the right of the board members to do what you hated the most to BOBK. In this situation you are no better than the system you are trying to change and a hypocrite. That doesn’t sound like your fostering a meaningful dialog unless they agree with you on this subject. You owe the Voights a public apology. I know I wont see it and if you recognize me at some flying site some ware please don’t offer me your hand until you do apologize. This my opinion and I have nothing to gain by making it known other than the fact I will sleep well tonight and go flying in the morning. Good luck and fly safe
Wes |
Hi Wes,
I'll point out that when the thread was locked - it was locked to all (including me). And when it was unlocked - it was unlocked for all (including Ryan and everyone else). I've seen threads locked before, and I have mixed feelings on it. In most cases, it seems to be a way to give people a little breathing room and a chance to think without escalating. That affects both sides of an argument equally.
You cannot compare that with the EC refusing to allow me to even attend their teleconferences. They didn't cancel the teleconference (which would be analogous to locking a thread), they simply told me that I could not attend. That would be more like silencing Ryan, and that's not what SG did.
Please think about it and write back with your thoughts...
Bob Kuczewski
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders • Join the Torrey Hawks • Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
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red
3 thumbs up
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 2730
Location: Utah, USA . . . . . . . . . . . . . Sol III
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject: SG needs to look in the mirror |
#6 |
| sg wrote: |
Ryan is free to post on that thread. Its open. Isnt that what he wanted? There you go. If he had anything new to add, I would have unlocked the thread as well, but counting who made how many posts wasnt exactly worthy of that The thread was effectively put on pause, and then unpaused. Dont see an issue.
PS: Im not your elected representative. |
Campers,
Ding! ! Ding! ! Ding! !
I wish I'da said that !
_________________
Cheers,
........Red.........................
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum |
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AIRTHUG
3 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 6159
Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: SG needs to look in the mirror |
#7 |
| bobk wrote: |
| I'll point out that when the thread was locked - it was locked to all (including me). And when it was unlocked - it was unlocked for all (including Ryan and everyone else). |
Except that he locked it while I was at the computer, reading and posting, and then unlocked it once I was at work (it's hard for ski instructors to post to hg.org). I know that's not exactly his fault, but to say that it was opened fairly isn't exactly true, either... maybe a post saying "I'm unlocking this thread at 9PM" would have been more appropriate.
And to say there were 'new' things to discuss, people just went on bashing me. Hardly new, since I hadn't even seen the thread since it was locked.
The post count was an issue because the arguement was made that I had already said more than the other contributors... yet that clearly wasn't true...
| sg wrote: |
| PS: Im not your elected representative. |
No, you've pretty much made yourself emperor of this little site. You're the David Jebb, here, now...
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Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/AIRTHUG |
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JDyer
3 thumbs up
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 703
Location: Alberta Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:06 pm Post subject: |
#8 |
Sg, Davis, and ushpa are all picked from the same bush. Grow up and deal with it instead of crying. why do people read threads if they don't like what they read? Skip the crap and the gems shine a little brighter.
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-Jason
WW Sport2 155
rated?, we don't need no stinking ratings!! |
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 11030
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: SG needs to look in the mirror |
#9 |
| flyhigh013 wrote: |
The post count was an issue because the arguement was made that I had already said more than the other contributors... yet that clearly wasn't true...
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I dont think the post count argument is even valid.
| Quote: |
| sg wrote: |
| PS: Im not your elected representative. |
No, you've pretty much made yourself emperor of this little site. You're the David Jebb, here, now... |
That is about the worst name calling insult you can make. Warning #1.
Now youre just getting ridiculous. If I was Jebb you would have been taken out back, beaten, had the cops called on you and forever banned from the site.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
Last edited by sg on Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:11 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 11030
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: SG needs to look in the mirror |
#10 |
| flyhigh013 wrote: |
Except that he locked it while I was at the computer, reading and posting, and then unlocked it once I was at work (it's hard for ski instructors to post to hg.org). I know that's not exactly his fault, but to say that it was opened fairly isn't exactly true, either... maybe a post saying "I'm unlocking this thread at 9PM" would have been more appropriate. |
As if I can predict when someone will show up with new info.
Everyone had to wait equally, including me.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 11030
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject: |
#11 |
| JDyer wrote: |
| Sg, Davis, and ushpa are all picked from the same bush. Grow up and deal with it instead of crying. why do people read threads if they don't like what they read? Skip the crap and the gems shine a little brighter. |
Quite the insult. Would have preferred it in person.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
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AIRTHUG
3 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 6159
Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: SG needs to look in the mirror |
#12 |
| sg wrote: |
| flyhigh013 wrote: |
| You're the David Jebb, here, now... |
That is about the worst name calling insult you can make. Warning #1.
Now youre just getting ridiculous. |
I object. I was making a comparison, which was stated earlier in the other thread is very different from name calling. I was censored without proper justification or documentation (kind of like Bob's suspension, without proper justification, documentation, etc). I assure you, the comparison works, even if you disagree
Do you retract warning # 1?
_________________
Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/AIRTHUG |
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 11030
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject: |
#13 |
Are you even being serious?? You know damn well calling me David Jebb is worse than calling me just about any other slander.
Censored? Oh, you mean along with everyone else in that thread?
The thread was paused for a bit until there was something new to discuss.
Read the "Registration Agreement Terms" you agreed to when you signed up to this site:
| Quote: |
| You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit. |
^^^^^ its called moderation.
Hell, the topic is open right now, how the hell can you even claim censorship? You had to wait, less than 24 hours to post again? Wow... yeah, you were censored Everyone else was allowed to post whatever they wanted except you... oh wait.. thats not true You had the exact same opportunity to post as everyone else, even right now.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
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AIRTHUG
3 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 6159
Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject: |
#14 |
I'm sure Jebb has a waiver, too 
My point is that it was just as 'name calling' as the things I have received recently, from your cronies, which were passed off as 'comparisons'
Dennis called someone a 'prick' and received a 'knock it off'... I draw a comparison, and I get 'Warning #1' 
_________________
Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/AIRTHUG |
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AIRTHUG
3 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 6159
Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:00 pm Post subject: |
#15 |
This thread has served it's purpose, showing you that not everyone agrees with your actions. This is what it feels like to be USHPA, btw... having people calling you out on every little thing every second of every day 
_________________
Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/AIRTHUG |
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BubbleBoy
1 thumbs up
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 3002
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: SG needs to look in the mirror |
#16 |
| flyhigh013 wrote: |
| Except that he locked it while I was at the computer, reading and posting, and then unlocked it once I was at work (it's hard for ski instructors to post to hg.org). I know that's not exactly his fault, but to say that it was opened fairly isn't exactly true, either... maybe a post saying "I'm unlocking this thread at 9PM" would have been more appropriate. |
OMG -- what's with the cryin'. It was MY thread that was locked after all -- I had a post in process as well and wan't all that happy to find it locked, but SG was right ... it had all pretty much been said.
Now, when BobK revealed that Paul (and the others) had voted to formalize the secret ballot power with the Chair, that WAS new information and worthy of discussion. When BobK revealed that this same bunch voted to no allow any form of recording of the meetings, that WAS new information.
So you can't post during the day and I can ... does that mean that threads you're involved in should be locked until you come home and belly up to the keyboard? Get a grip kid.
JB |
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BubbleBoy
1 thumbs up
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 3002
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: SG needs to look in the mirror |
#17 |
| flyhigh013 wrote: |
| The post count was an issue because the arguement was made that I had already said more than the other contributors... yet that clearly wasn't true... |
Ryan -- I've looked and I haven't found that argument made by SG anywhere. I was a mystified by your "post count" thread as anyone so if you can show me where he made that argument it will then make sense to me.
| Quote: |
| No, you've pretty much made yourself emperor of this little site. You're the David Jebb, here, now... |
See, this is the problem with people who display no ability to follow simple and clear logic. I'll make a comparison just for fun.
A: Malcolm Jones and Wallaby Ranch. Private property and private flying site. Unless there is a event sanctioned by some other organization, no one get's to say a damn thing about who flies and who doesn't. There is not appeal process -- Malcolm is King and rightly so.
B: Dave Jebb and Torrey Pines. Public property with a concession awarded. Dave does'nt own the property and must abide by a HOST of laws and regulations regarding who he can and cannot ban from the site. There are readily available appeal processes (the legal system) for disagreements.
C: HangGliding.org. Private "property". SG is King and rightly so.
SG is the "Malcolm Jones", here, now. The Dave Jebb comparison is laughably invalid.
JB |
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 11030
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: |
#18 |
| flyhigh013 wrote: |
I'm sure Jebb has a waiver, too
My point is that it was just as 'name calling' as the things I have received recently, from your cronies, which were passed off as 'comparisons'
Dennis called someone a 'prick' and received a 'knock it off'... I draw a comparison, and I get 'Warning #1' |
Dennis didnt receive a knock it off... EVERYONE did. It was out of control and I wasnt about to go through post by post for 2 hours to do individual warnings.
So I posted a global knock it off. Lots of people were guilty so I did a reset.
IN THIS THREAD however, you really insulted me and there was no name calling except by YOU, JDyer and Wes all against ME, so you got a warning for a totally uncalled for insult.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
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BubbleBoy
1 thumbs up
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 3002
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: SG needs to look in the mirror |
#19 |
| flyhigh013 wrote: |
| I was censored ... |
LOL -- do you THINK before you post statements like that? There was NO censoring going on. You were free to post at all times (and did) and none of your posts were removed.
| Quote: |
| (kind of like Bob's suspension, without proper justification, documentation, etc). |
If you can't differentiate between public and private property and the differing levels of "justification and documentation" required you're just beyond help.
| Quote: |
| I assure you, the comparison works, even if you disagree |
Yeah... well it works as long as you ignore that little private/public thing.
JB
Last edited by BubbleBoy on Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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AIRTHUG
3 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 6159
Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:10 pm Post subject: |
#20 |
| sg wrote: |
IN THIS THREAD however, you really insulted me and there was no name calling except by YOU, JDyer and Wes all against ME, so you got a warning for a totally uncalled for insult. |
I've never even met JDyer before, why do you think he might have posted "against" you?
Take a step back, and think here. JB's defense of you is also laughable, as he is always the first to sound the crony siren
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Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.AIRTHUG.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/AIRTHUG |
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