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danG
3 thumbs up
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Utah
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 Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:03 am Post subject: |
 #201 |
There most certainly are real problems with our healthcare system. I won't even go into illegal immigration type stuff, but consider the poor college student and/or graduate student (i.e., me and many people I know). There is a problem when the most healthy, and those that really help the overall economy, have trouble affording healthcare at a critical time in their advancing careers. One serious accident/illness and their retirement investments are wiped out (trying to do the right thing, and still get screwed). Even those with insurance get stung, as anything we can afford is nearly worthless. I'll cut to the chase and say we need a single-payer system but must also lower cost (especially by reducing frivolous lawsuits against medicine). But I'd really go for anything that has been shown to work well (Germany and France have very different systems, but both are much better than ours under numerous metrics).
- Preventative care MUST be covered. Much lower cost overall, in long term.
- Reduce doctor's expenses.
- America is way too unhealthy. Biggest Loser will only go so far... Why not tax shitty food, and subsidize "good" food? I still don't know how I feel about it, and there are many difficulties, but "money talks"!
- Our society's health is NOT A MARKET! or at least shouldn't be. Nobody brags to their friends about their fancy German-engineered merce, err, health care plan. Take care of our health first, and have fun with what's left over.
- Elderly... this is a big one and I have no idea what to do. My generation will be paying for the mistakes of the baby boomers.
- Prescriptions... another biggie! Tough, too: needs to be cheap to the end-user for many required drugs, but the drug co's need rewards for their labor.
Ok, there's my nearly-worthless $0.02 :-P Just had to chime in, because this is the issue most dear to my heart.
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Wingspan34
2 thumbs up
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:24 am Post subject: |
#202 |
SG,
Don't have much faith in EPI. It a sham "think tank".
See:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Employment_Policies_Institute
| Quote: |
| The Employment Policies Institute (EPI) is one of several front groups created by Berman & Co., a Washington, DC public affairs firm owned by Rick Berman, who lobbies for the restaurant, hotel, alcoholic beverage and tobacco industries. While most commonly referred to as EPI, it is registered as a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization under the name of Employment Policies Institute Foundation. In its annual Internal Revenue Service return, EPI states that it "shares office space with Berman & Company on a cost pass through basis" |
and, . . .
| Quote: |
. . . it describes itself, as a "non-profit research organization dedicated to studying public policy issues surrounding employment growth" that "focuses on issues that affect entry-level employment." In reality, EPI's mission is to keep the minimum wage low so Berman's clients can continue to pay their workers as little as possible.
EPI also owns the internet domain names to MinimumWage.com and LivingWage.com, a website that attempts to portray the idea of a living wage for workers as some kind of insidious conspiracy. "Living wage activists want nothing less than a national living wage," it warns (as though there is something wrong with paying employees enough that they can afford to eat and pay rent). |
Doesn't sound like a very reliable source of information to me. In fact, it sounds like they have a goal of spreading intentional distortion and misinformation designed to sway the public opinion in favor of their real boss's agenda.
| sg wrote: |
I just found another very interesting number.
According to the Employment Policies Institute, 16 million americans are uninsured by CHOICE. . .
If this is even remotely true, and you subtract all the illegals being counted, it leaves almost no one uninsured 
Im starting to get the feeling the crisis is 90% fabricated |
And SG, that's EXACTLY what they want you to think.
_________________
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Master rated, First flight - May 1975
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Wingspan34
2 thumbs up
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:31 am Post subject: |
#203 |
SG,
The misinformation floating around this thread is getting incredibly thick!
In the same article you quote below I found the following:
| Quote: |
The estimates of illegal aliens in the United States without health insurance vary. The most commonly cited statistic, attributed to the Center for Immigration Statistics and the U.S. Census Bureau, holds that 15 percent to 22 percent of the nation's 46 million uninsured are illegal aliens. That would be between 6.9 million and 10.1 million people. . .
John Sheils of the Lewin Group, a health care consulting firm owned by United Health Group, recently told National Public Radio that about 6.1 million illegals – about half of all illegals in the United States – lack documentation and therefore would not be legally eligible for benefits under the current health care reforms.
Sheils says the other half of the nation's illegals – 5 million to 6 million – use false documents to obtain on-the-books employment. Many of them are already insured under their employers' plans, he added.
"A lot of those people are getting employer health benefits as part of their compensation," Sheils told NPR.
Certainly, some contend that undocumented workers who are gainfully employed and receiving benefits such as health insurance are contributing to society. . . |
So only(?) 6 -10 million people (out of 46 million uninsured Americans) are illegal aliens. Some big number of illegal aliens have no documentation, so they could not actually get access to the proposed US health plan.
Another big number of illegal aliens have fake IDs and some (significant?) number of them actually WORK and get insurance from their employer. So, it seems that while illegal, they are also seen as legitimate US citizens due to their fake (but accepted) US citizenship documents.
So this really tends to clarify the issue of how many illegal aliens are wandering the country sucking up free health care services. Certainly all 6 - 10 million illegals aren't all sick all the time. Some work and get health benefits while "disguised" as real US citizens (and can we assume, also paying taxes like other good citizens?). Some other number work undocumented and remain healthy.
May we guess from this that maybe 3 million illegal aliens, who have good fake US documentation, could or would need to get access to a Public Health Insurance Plan? And any illegal alien who HAS fake ID AND a good job with its own health benefits, would be nuts to apply to a public plan.
The problem would therefore lie with Illegal aliens with good fake IDs who don't have jobs which include health coverage. Sounds to me that the solution to this fairly small problem may best be solved with better methods of documenting true and actual citizenship.
In the mean time, SG, from what your saying it seems to me that you'd scrap the whole proposed US Public Health Plan just to keep a relatively small % of illegal aliens from participating (due to their possession of well faked US citizenship documents). You'd be in favor of denying 30 - 40 million legitimate US citizens health care coverage just to keep less then 10% of illegals from getting coverage. Does this qualify as cutting off your nose to spite your face?
| sg wrote: |
Geeez.... why did we even have this long debate.
This is a huge deal breaker.
You start giving full coverage universal healthcare to everyone who sneaks across the border and you are going to cause a RAMPAGE of illegals to rush into the country and bankrupt us further.
F***.... I cant believe we are going to get taxed to death to give foreign criminals full free healthcare. This country is going to s***. It really is. Have people lost their fricken minds???? The US is completely losing its identity.
I think our only hope left is a mad scientist to build a time machine and SNATCH the founding fathers into the present and let them give our politicians a piece of their mind. Assuming they dont immediately have a heart attack at what this country as become. Their design/architecture for a country (the US constitution) has utterly failed. 
| Quote: |
On Friday, Democrats moved one step closer to giving free health insurance to the nation’s estimated 12 million illegal aliens when they successfully defeated a Republican-backed amendment, offered by Rep. Dean Heller, R-Nev., that would have prevented illegal aliens from receiving government-subsidized health care under the proposed plan backed by House Democrats and President Barack Obama.
The House Ways and Means Committee nixed the Heller amendment by a 26-to-15 vote along straight party lines, and followed this action by passing the 1,018-page bill early Friday morning by a 23-to-18 margin, with three Democrats voting against the plan.
The Democratic plan will embrace Obama’s vision of bringing free government medical care to more than 45 million uninsured people in America – a significant portion of whom are illegal aliens. |
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Jason
3 thumbs up
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 7531
Location: Stapleton, Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:26 am Post subject: |
#204 |
Ok, so 46 million without insurance
take out 10 million for illegals
take out 15 million for those that can have it and just don't want it, leaves you with 20million people
out of 300 million
6.66% of the population
less then the number of people unemployed
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TSA, DHS, NDAA and SOPA Seig Heil! |
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Wingspan34
2 thumbs up
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:12 pm Post subject: |
#205 |
| Jason wrote: |
Ok, so 46 million without insurance
take out 10 million for illegals
take out 15 million for those that can have it and just don't want it, leaves you with 20million people
out of 300 million
6.66% of the population
less then the number of people unemployed |
Gee, with so few people, percentage wise, needing medical insurance, it seems it would be EASY for the country to afford a plan to get them covered. Or is it cheaper to exclude them from the insurance "system" and send them all to the emergency room every time they get sick? 
Still, I'd say 10 million illegal aliens is high. Also, you can't just factor out those who "just don't want" health coverage. They can still get sick like anybody else and not be able to pay their medical bills. Like it or not, those costs will be added to other people's medical costs. That's one reason the current "Government Plan" requires that everyone be covered by some kind of health insurance. Another reason is that it puts more money in the pockets of the insurance companies.
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Master rated, First flight - May 1975
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Wingspan34
2 thumbs up
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:22 pm Post subject: |
#206 |
Here's a great US Senate Committee Hearing on the dirty deeds of health insurance companies:
(Note: Move the progress bar to about the 30 minute mark. That's when the testimony begins. If you want to see it from the beginning start at around the 15 minute mark. Before that point, you just get the title screen - for 15 dang minutes!)
http://tinyurl.com/lcdspe
It'll take some time to watch (I haven't even finished it) but so far it's very informative.
_________________
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Master rated, First flight - May 1975
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mrpotatohead
2 thumbs up
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 87
Location: australia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:43 pm Post subject: |
#207 |
I think we've resolved a lot:
a) there are probably only a few mill who actually need genuine help for healthcare.
b) that healthcare is in fact a functioning and effective system.
c) there is no problem with healthcare and the gov may even be fabricating the perception of one in order to generate yet another pool of mega funds to use for who knows what under the guise of 'healthcare reform'.
I am going to sleep better at night now and will disregard any future negative media, official or anecdotal reporting in healthcare.
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Also known as Hugh G Rection |
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Wingspan34
2 thumbs up
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: |
#208 |
Thanks so much Mr. P.
I had a dream last night. My house was shacking and a rainbow appeared. It told me that an Idaho(?) spud would speak the absolute and final truth to me - soon. And so, it has come to pass.  I will rest easy from this day forward. Ahhhh, . . . You were sent by the house shaking rainbow RIGHT? 
| mrpotatohead wrote: |
I think we've resolved a lot:
a) there are probably only a few mill who actually need genuine help for healthcare.
b) that healthcare is in fact a functioning and effective system.
c) there is no problem with healthcare and the gov may even be fabricating the perception of one in order to generate yet another pool of mega funds to use for who knows what under the guise of 'healthcare reform'.
I am going to sleep better at night now and will disregard any future negative media, official or anecdotal reporting in healthcare.
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WW 141 Fusion SP
Master rated, First flight - May 1975
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 11030
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject: |
#209 |
Fallacy: Poisoning the well.
If we simply rejected anything because they may have some kind of agenda, then I would reject everything ive ever read eveywhere, including anything you post, and obama's plan outright, because he is a left wing democrat with an agenda
Show us why their research is actually flawed instead.
| Wingspan34 wrote: |
SG,
Don't have much faith in EPI. It a sham "think tank".
See:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Employment_Policies_Institute
| Quote: |
| The Employment Policies Institute (EPI) is one of several front groups created by Berman & Co., a Washington, DC public affairs firm owned by Rick Berman, who lobbies for the restaurant, hotel, alcoholic beverage and tobacco industries. While most commonly referred to as EPI, it is registered as a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization under the name of Employment Policies Institute Foundation. In its annual Internal Revenue Service return, EPI states that it "shares office space with Berman & Company on a cost pass through basis" |
and, . . .
| Quote: |
. . . it describes itself, as a "non-profit research organization dedicated to studying public policy issues surrounding employment growth" that "focuses on issues that affect entry-level employment." In reality, EPI's mission is to keep the minimum wage low so Berman's clients can continue to pay their workers as little as possible.
EPI also owns the internet domain names to MinimumWage.com and LivingWage.com, a website that attempts to portray the idea of a living wage for workers as some kind of insidious conspiracy. "Living wage activists want nothing less than a national living wage," it warns (as though there is something wrong with paying employees enough that they can afford to eat and pay rent). |
Doesn't sound like a very reliable source of information to me. In fact, it sounds like they have a goal of spreading intentional distortion and misinformation designed to sway the public opinion in favor of their real boss's agenda.
| sg wrote: |
I just found another very interesting number.
According to the Employment Policies Institute, 16 million americans are uninsured by CHOICE. . .
If this is even remotely true, and you subtract all the illegals being counted, it leaves almost no one uninsured
Im starting to get the feeling the crisis is 90% fabricated |
And SG, that's EXACTLY what they want you to think. |
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
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HGXC
1 thumbs up
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 2921
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:37 pm Post subject: |
#210 |
| Wingspan34 wrote: |
| BubbleBoy wrote: |
| HGXC wrote: |
| Tell me span what is it about earning your own way and competing that you find so objectionable? |
That's the key question Dennis. Sadly, I think it's the entire concept that is objectionable to many. . . . JB |
Dennis (and JB),
Here you (Dennis) attack ME rather than the ideas I am arguing or information I am presenting. In your attack you ignorantly and incorrectly describe me as being against "earning [my] own way" and against competition.
At the same time, this helps me define your character[s]. Obviously, if you disagree with someone you are more than willing to resort to the ploy of defining that person in a negative and derogatory manner (as the enemy!  ).
People I find easy to respect do not ignorantly and derogatorily define other people, who they don't actually know, in order to feel more secure in their own beliefs. Of course, I have my own ways to define such persons. But, . . . it seems to me, we are supposed to be debating the issue of Health Care in this thread, not the ability or inability of various persons to fairly participate in a reasonable, informed discussion.
Now, if we want to insult and defame each other's character perhaps we should start a "Let's Insult and Defame Each Other" thread just for that purpose. Ooooh, such good FUN!  |
I was referring to a collective "you" and not you personally, I don't know what you do for a living or how much you make, for all I know you are a health Care Insurance executive.
If I started quoting Rush would you also grant that as a credible source. Moyers is a Rush they are entertainers for their own political views.
I am happy to pit them against each other if that's OK with you.
Dennis
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mtpilot
3 thumbs up
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 216
Location: montana
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:18 pm Post subject: |
#211 |
Ok I think everyone has had their say on this thread that won't die .I flew today
and hope everyone gets to fly, if only to clear your head.I had time to think on
the 5 mile hike back to the truck.It's useless trying to fix the gov, health care
the climate, USHPA and all the cockroaches that try to run the world.Just fly
and enjoy being detached from all the crap on the ground and be nice but
don't expect anything from anyone, you will be disappointed.
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BubbleBoy
1 thumbs up
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 3002
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject: |
#212 |
| Wingspan34 wrote: |
| BubbleBoy wrote: |
| HGXC wrote: |
| Tell me span what is it about earning your own way and competing that you find so objectionable? |
That's the key question Dennis. Sadly, I think it's the entire concept that is objectionable to many. . . . JB |
Dennis (and JB),
Here you (Dennis) attack ME rather than the ideas I am arguing or information I am presenting. In your attack you ignorantly and incorrectly describe me as being against "earning [my] own way" and against competition.
At the same time, this helps me define your character[s]. Obviously, if you disagree with someone you are more than willing to resort to the ploy of defining that person in a negative and derogatory manner (as the enemy! ).
People I find easy to respect do not ignorantly and derogatorily define other people, who they don't actually know, in order to feel more secure in their own beliefs. Of course, I have my own ways to define such persons. But, . . . it seems to me, we are supposed to be debating the issue of Health Care in this thread, not the ability or inability of various persons to fairly participate in a reasonable, informed discussion.
Now, if we want to insult and defame each other's character perhaps we should start a "Let's Insult and Defame Each Other" thread just for that purpose. Ooooh, such good FUN! |
Oh, get a grip. I explained my general comment quite well (and you chose to snip the explanation from your quote ... perhaps because it makes your indignation look a lot more silly).
If the shoe I explained fits, wear it ... if it doesn't, we're one more to the good.
JB |
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HGXC
1 thumbs up
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 2921
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:17 am Post subject: |
#213 |
Anyone that can fog a mirror has an agenda. The initial intent of my post was to offer solutions to the insurance gap that with the passing of a few measures can expand coverage to the unemployed and young person just out on his own.
That begs the question of ...Who is not covered after we cover those people?
One answer that most obama people try to whistle by the graveyard is ..The Illegals. Why? because the WIFM is that this would be a great voting sector for future elections. It hard to justify when you break it down because by definition they have broke the law and should be deported.
Another group is people who thru bad decision making or simply lack of trying and hard work...have no insurance and want a free ride at someones else's expense.
If the coverage problem was solved I wonder how pressing this issue would be considering the country is going bankrupt and spending money like a drunkin sailor on programs that are not stimulating as promised.
I also want to admit another agenda. I have a hard time understand why some of my HGing buddies can afford great HGing equipment and fly ll the time but don't take the responsibility to insure themselves. We are in a high risk activity and I have spent a number of weekends over my 35 years in the sport holding benefits for injured pilots to help pay for medical bills incurred from accidents.
One More thing...I flew yesterday and had a nice flight an a few miles. If I posted about that flight there may be a handful of short replies. This topic is on its 11 page!
Think people are interested and engaged?
Dennis
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Organ Donation Saves Lives
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BubbleBoy
1 thumbs up
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 3002
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:20 am Post subject: |
#214 |
| HGXC wrote: |
| Why? because the WIFM is that this would be a great voting sector for future elections. It hard to justify when you break it down because by definition they have broke the law and should be deported. |
Bingo!
| Quote: |
| Another group is people who thru bad decision making or simply lack of trying and hard work...have no insurance and want a free ride at someones else's expense. |
Bingo!
| Quote: |
| I also want to admit another agenda. I have a hard time understand why some of my HGing buddies can afford great HGing equipment and fly ll the time but don't take the responsibility to insure themselves. |
... and Bingo!
JB |
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 11030
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:12 pm Post subject: |
#215 |
This is just more of a scary trend that has developed in our society over a very long period of time. Personal responsibility simply doesnt exist anymore. People feel entitled. ALL YOU OTHER PEOPLE owe *ME* something, whether its free healthcare, $4500 to trade in my car, a govt bailout for my mortgage because I made bad decisions, or whatever.
Get into a car accident with no insurance? No problem, the OTHER guy had to pay for additional uninsured coverage, so its cool.
Poor and cant afford health insurance but still pay for cable TV and internet at home? No problem, if you get sick the insured people will pay for you at 10X the rate at the ER via higher premiums.
Bought a house that is 10X your gross and now foreclosing? No problem, just hand in the keys and you are completely 100% off the hook (in california and many other states) and F everyone else in the country the suffers the consequences.
Entered the country illegally and eating up billions in public services there for legals? Cut in line in front of the millions who are trying to immigrate here legally? No problem, were going to reward you with free healthcare too, woo hooo. 
Who cares what the cost of MY decisions are to everyone else involved, its the new ME ME ME society  Its always someone else's fault somehow so its ok if I screw the system. You OWE me, because, well, just because dammit.
Obamacare will be the latest nail in the coffin of what the United States of America used to be
There are problems in the current system that can be fixed, but not by creating a new and immoral govt bureaucracy that will only attract more law breakers to violate our borders and chew up $$$'s to pay thousands, millions? of new govt employees to do what exactly???
Ive really lost all faith at this point. Tired of a being a chump in this system. Should throw in the towel and become a professional system LEACH.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
Last edited by sg on Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HGXC
1 thumbs up
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 2921
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: |
#216 |
| Quote: |
No problem, were going to reward you with free healthcare too, woo hooo.
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And in some states a free college education!!!
Dennis
_________________
Organ Donation Saves Lives
Glider = ATOS B-V, Rating = H5 |
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Scott
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 759
Location: Oakhurst
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:55 pm Post subject: |
#217 |
Reading all these posts amazes me.How could I have been sooo blind?
I'm just some, me,me me type,or too stupid,or too lazy! Or just bad decisions,you know-like caring for my elderly widowed mother for 11 years instead of selling her for medical experiments to pay for college.
Wow! I didn't know that all of us who can't get or can't afford health care are just horrible worthless freeloaders!
I don't think many of us will stay sane if we just slog from home to our 2 or 3 jobs and do NOTHING but try and pay bills and insurance.No money for recreation allowed.Don't think thats healthy but,hey!No real income so thats all thats allowed.
I guess all of us who are uninsured had better just kill ourselves so we don't inconvenience those who do have insurance.After all,the stress of being forever out of money and working multiple jobs makes one think about the escape of death anyways...oh! wait.....who would serve the economically better off their meals when they eat out?Who would clean up their offices after hours?How would we guard their cars that cost more than my annual income out in the 105 degree heat in summer and snow in the winter while they toil away in their climate controlled cubicles?(that what one of my jobs is, protect the parking lots of folks who have great health care and wages I can only dream of.)What would happen to the insured peoples food supply without the cheap,uninsured farm labor?
Guess we can't just kill ourselves.
Hey!I know...let's just ship all people like me into labor camps.
We could put of signs over the gate that say"Areit macht frei"
At last,a "final solution" to those pesky poor people that others rely on to do the work the wealthier won't,or just don't want to do for wages low enough to ensure that inflation will not bother the better off. |
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Love2Glide
3 thumbs up
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 366
Location: Huntsville, AL
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:53 am Post subject: |
#218 |
My dog looks to me for food, shelter, health care, and everything else. I own him. I am his master.
My citizens look to me for food, shelter, health care, and everything else. I own them. I am their master.
Health care "reform" is not about helping people, its about OWNING you.
Lap up your "free" s*** bitches, and fetch the f***ing ball for your master.
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We, the People, are tyrants. |
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 11030
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:12 am Post subject: |
#219 |
| Scott wrote: |
Reading all these posts amazes me.How could I have been sooo blind?
I'm just some, me,me me type,or too stupid,or too lazy! Or just bad decisions,you know-like caring for my elderly widowed mother for 11 years instead of selling her for medical experiments to pay for college.
Wow! I didn't know that all of us who can't get or can't afford health care are just horrible worthless freeloaders! |
Now just hold on.
Did anyone here say Scott made bad decisions?
Did anyone here call Scott a freeloader?
Did anyone here call Scott lazy or stupid?
No they didnt.
Lots of people fall onto hard times for many other reasons as well.
Some are simply dealt bad hands.
It still doenst make theft via government proxy moral.
Government control of the distribution of some new universal healthcare system is pure socialism by definition.
The third definition of socialism in the dictionary is:
"(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles."
So excuse me for not wanting to take yet another step closer to communism.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
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BubbleBoy
1 thumbs up
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 3002
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:25 am Post subject: |
#220 |
| Scott wrote: |
Reading all these posts amazes me.How could I have been sooo blind?
I'm just some, me,me me type,or too stupid,or too lazy! Or just bad decisions,you know-like caring for my elderly widowed mother for 11 years instead of selling her for medical experiments to pay for college.
Wow! I didn't know that all of us who can't get or can't afford health care are just horrible worthless freeloaders!
I don't think many of us will stay sane if we just slog from home to our 2 or 3 jobs and do NOTHING but try and pay bills and insurance.No money for recreation allowed.Don't think thats healthy but,hey!No real income so thats all thats allowed.
I guess all of us who are uninsured had better just kill ourselves so we don't inconvenience those who do have insurance.After all,the stress of being forever out of money and working multiple jobs makes one think about the escape of death anyways...oh! wait.....who would serve the economically better off their meals when they eat out?Who would clean up their offices after hours?How would we guard their cars that cost more than my annual income out in the 105 degree heat in summer and snow in the winter while they toil away in their climate controlled cubicles?(that what one of my jobs is, protect the parking lots of folks who have great health care and wages I can only dream of.)What would happen to the insured peoples food supply without the cheap,uninsured farm labor?
Guess we can't just kill ourselves.
Hey!I know...let's just ship all people like me into labor camps.
We could put of signs over the gate that say"Areit macht frei"
At last,a "final solution" to those pesky poor people that others rely on to do the work the wealthier won't,or just don't want to do for wages low enough to ensure that inflation will not bother the better off. |
Perhaps you should actually READ what I wrote Scott. Following is from the quote of mine that got Wingspan all up in arms:
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| Government programs have gone from being intended to help the extreme few cases (which I am not against helping) to creating an entire culture who believes that the government is responsible for any sad story -- self created or not. |
Notice in particular the bolded portion.
JB |
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