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soren_ladegaard
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Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 573
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 Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:41 pm Post subject: |
 #61 |
After 4 years and almost 600 post I am leaving this forum due to personal attacks. This forum has turned very hostile with 5-6 users harrassing others just for the sake of it. The forum lacks moderation so they noone's stopping them.
I am out of here! 
Last edited by soren_ladegaard on Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:09 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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MorphFX
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Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 557
Location: England
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:54 pm Post subject: |
#62 |
Great review and very much appreciated!
_________________
www.morphfx.co.uk/hang-gliding/
“The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
Douglas Adams
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Windlord
3 thumbs up
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 4704
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:31 am Post subject: |
#63 |
Sounds great, Soren!
That's a good comparison. Thanks for the update.
Pics! We love pics, whenever you can.
_________________
H-4 (1976) UP Saturn 147 & UP Axis 13
The Cloudbase Foundation
Learn to fly hang gliders (click here}
Torrey Hawks #208 |
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soren_ladegaard
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Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 573
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:25 am Post subject: |
#64 |
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Last edited by soren_ladegaard on Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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soren_ladegaard
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Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 573
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:27 am Post subject: |
#65 |
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Last edited by soren_ladegaard on Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ali
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:32 am Post subject: |
#66 |
Hi! I also got my new space 16. these days. i hope i can fly it for the first time this weekend. i am from austria and started hanggliding on a funky 17 2 years ago. i liked the funky very much and i am really interested if how much better the performance of the space is. manfred (the owner of seedwings) told me that if you use the vg it glides much better than the funky. landing is the same.
i am rerally interested if leanding is so easy with 80% double sail.
Soren.....is there really so much difference when you pull the vg. what do you think abought landing...is it possibel to blast altitude when you are to high like you can do it with a singel sail hg?
best regards alfred
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ali
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:38 am Post subject: |
#67 |
two pictures of my space. i have 95 kg i hope not to much for the space.
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MorphFX
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 557
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:48 am Post subject: |
#68 |
| ali wrote: |
| two pictures of my space. i have 95 kg i hope not to much for the space. |
Your glider is an imposter! It hasn't got a SPACE logo!
Seriously, those are two very nice crisp looking gliders! I'm jealous.... however... I may have a new glider in a month or two... watch this space (no pun intended).
_________________
www.morphfx.co.uk/hang-gliding/
“The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
Douglas Adams
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Windlord
3 thumbs up
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 4704
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:48 am Post subject: |
#69 |
Those Spaces are sure lookng good.
Thanks Soren for the close-up of the hardware. It's nice to see what
others use in their wing construction.
Welcome "ali"  Nice looking wing.
Morph-
I'll be waiting in anticipation of your new arrival.
_________________
H-4 (1976) UP Saturn 147 & UP Axis 13
The Cloudbase Foundation
Learn to fly hang gliders (click here}
Torrey Hawks #208 |
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soren_ladegaard
1 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 573
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:19 am Post subject: |
#70 |
After 4 years and almost 600 post I am leaving this forum due to personal attacks. This forum has turned very hostile with 5-6 users harrassing others just for the sake of it. The forum lacks moderation so they noone's stopping them.
I am out of here!
Last edited by soren_ladegaard on Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:10 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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FMAN
1 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 1181
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject: fly safety |
#71 |
| ali wrote: |
Hi! I also got my new space 16. these days. i hope i can fly it for the first time this weekend. i am from austria and started hanggliding on a funky 17 2 years ago. i liked the funky very much and i am really interested if how much better the performance of the space is. manfred (the owner of seedwings) told me that if you use the vg it glides much better than the funky. landing is the same.
i am rerally interested if leanding is so easy with 80% double sail.
Soren.....is there really so much difference when you pull the vg. what do you think abought landing...is it possibel to blast altitude when you are to high like you can do it with a singel sail hg?
best regards alfred |
"manfred (the owner of seedwings)" - to avoid some confusion
to unaware pilots, Alfred's not referring to the pilot Manfred Rhumer.
It's Manfred Bangheri that builds low performance wings from Trampenau's old designs 
Last edited by FMAN on Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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soren_ladegaard
1 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 573
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:06 pm Post subject: |
#72 |
After 4 years and almost 600 post I am leaving this forum due to personal attacks. This forum has turned very hostile with 5-6 users harrassing others just for the sake of it. The forum lacks moderation so they noone's stopping them.
I am out of here!
Last edited by soren_ladegaard on Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:10 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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FMAN
1 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 1181
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:32 pm Post subject: |
#73 |
| soren_ladegaard wrote: |
| FMAN wrote: |
"manfred (the owner of seedwings)" - to avoid some confusion
to unaware pilots, Alfred's not referring to the pilot Manfred Rhumer.
It's a different Manfred the builds wings from Bob's design
in Europe. Fred  |
It's correct that Seedwings Europe started by producing Bob Trampenau's gliders on license to the European market. But since the mid 90's all Seedwings Europe's gliders are self-developed. |
"mid 90's all Seedwings Europe's gliders are self-developed"
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rallyant
3 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 936
Location: Newport beach Sydney & Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:56 am Post subject: |
#74 |
Yeah the contract with Bob ran out early 90s, they had another Austrian or german pilot/engineer design the follow up design of the much loved Merlin, im not sure who was the designer of the following 3 evolutions tho? I think maybe Manfred and the seedwings team?
Ahh your making me miss my Space now Soren! good write up.
| MorphFX wrote: |
Your glider is an imposter! It hasn't got a SPACE logo!
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I think he stole mine and pulled the stickes off!
_________________
Spyder14 - WillsWing "Dune" (Falcon 4 195) Aus Dune tune version) |
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FMAN
1 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 1181
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:47 am Post subject: |
#75 |
This is a big lesson for all.
Last edited by FMAN on Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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FMAN
1 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 1181
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:26 am Post subject: |
#76 |
Last edited by FMAN on Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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msmfi
Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:55 am Post subject: |
#77 |
| FMAN wrote: |
Seed Wings Europe lost a lot by not working with Bob. too bad. Bob Trampenau deserves an apology and some money in my and others opinion. It's great manfred whoever is making gliders and all, but why use Seedwings name to gain reputation for yourself and at the same time claim to be a designer, manfred Co. just copied a plans and changed a couple things |
FYI (From: http://www.seedwings.at/en/welcome/history.html):
| SeedwingsEurope wrote: |
The company Seedwings Europe was founded in 1987 by brothers Andreas & Manfred Bangheri. The company started by producing gliders on license for US company Seedwings. During the first three years the sails were imported from the USA and the frames build in Austria.
In 1989 Bob Shuttle came to Tyrol in Austria for three years teaching Manfred Bangheri all about the art of sailmaking. In the beginning the Sensor 510 A/B/D/E were produced in Angath near Wörgl in Austria.
As the European market became increasingly different from the US the demand for different models started to rise. As a result in 1992 the cooperation with Seedwings in the US ended and Seedwings Europe became an independent company. Furthermore in 1992 Seedwings Europe released its first self-developed glider the Sensor 610.
In the following years Seedwings Europe developed a total of 20 different models that are all DHV certified.
In 2004 Andreas Bangheri left Seedwings Europe. Manfred Bangheri remained as owner/manager in the restructured corporation.
All production, repairs and checks are performed on-site at the factory in Schlitters. Repairs are also available for people in other countries who send in their gliders.
1992: Sensor 610
1993: Sensor 611
1994: Merlin 133
1995: Merlin 148
1996: Merlin 158
1997: Viper 159
1998: Skyfloater 195
1999: Viagro 14
2000: Kestrel 133/148/158
2002: Vertigo 13/15
2004: Spyder 14/15
2005: Spyder 12.5
2006: Funky 15/17
2007: Space 16
2008: Space 14 |
Regards,
Mirek
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rallyant
3 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 936
Location: Newport beach Sydney & Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:02 am Post subject: |
#78 |
| FMAN wrote: |
PAY CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE
check this outhttp://seedwings.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&id=7&Itemid=57
Seed Wings Europe lost a lot by not working with Bob. too bad. Bob Trampenau deserves an apology and some money in my and others opinion. It's great manfred whoever is making gliders and all, but why use Seedwings name to gain reputation for yourself and at the same time claim to be a designer, manfred Co. just copied a plans and changed a couple things peace Fred |
I agree, they should have changed there name! Im not realy sure why they didnt? I think theres much better names for hanggliders. I dont know the full story of the history? All i know is what i have read of Denis Pagen:
| Denis Pagen wrote: |
| "The story of Seedwings Europ may be somewhat unfamiliar to most US pilots, so heres a brief outline, Andreas Benghieri is an Austrian pilot who has been flying sensors since 1981, in 1987 he traveled to Santa Barbra and entered into a contract with Bob Trampenau of Seedwings to distribute Sensors in Europe. In 1988 Andreas established a new company he dubbed Seedwings Europ as a manufacturer to produce Sensors in Austria. To help the project along, sailmaker Bob Schutte moved to Austria to teach sewing the fine Sensor sails to Manfred, Andreas brother. Manfred is now the chief sailmaker(Now the Owner, Andreas is no longer part of seedwings Europ) along with 3 others in the Austrian factory, The Europe-US connection lasted until July 1993 when the contract expired and wasn't renewed." |
My interest in there product had/s nothing to do with there name, I just shopped around everything that was out there, infact when i bought I had no idea of reputations, other than Moyes and airborne, been an Australian. im not sure most people getting into the sport these days are any different, and anyone thats been in the sport since Bob knows that seedwings euro steamed from them, just like Icaro built Moyes gliders in europ,befor they went there own way, and similar story with other makes. I hardly thing there gaining from the name? Im personally think changing the name would have been a better business decision, and still would be!
Every make of glider out there is almost the same as the rest with just a few things changed slightly. There second glider design after separating from Bob, had a completely new computer designed airfoil they employed Martin Jursa, a then member of the Austrian Hangglideing team and a Dr of physics and aerodynamics Lecturer.
But, what exactly have they lost by not working with Bob? as far as i can see all they did was gain an expanded range of gliders, Beginner, intermediate and advanced.
I have heard nothing but great things about Bob and his gliders, i still agree they should/have changed there name, and im happy to give Bob credit for what for what he has done and does, but I think its clear both company's have different philosophy's. But unless theres some information i don't know about, i don't think there's any real reason to be dirty on seedwings europ?
BTW im not bias, my next gliders just as likely to be a moyes, WW or anything else for that matter, when the time comes for me to get my next glider ill be looking at all my options. My SS glider is an Airborne Fun and not a Funky, due to the fact the fun is a much better dune gooning glider and thats about all i use an SS glider for now.
_________________
Spyder14 - WillsWing "Dune" (Falcon 4 195) Aus Dune tune version) |
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FMAN
1 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 1181
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:48 am Post subject: |
#79 |
see
Last edited by FMAN on Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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soren_ladegaard
1 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 573
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: |
#80 |
After 4 years and almost 600 post I am leaving this forum due to personal attacks. This forum has turned very hostile with 5-6 users harrassing others just for the sake of it. The forum lacks moderation so they noone's stopping them.
I am out of here!
Last edited by soren_ladegaard on Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:10 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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